A (possibly) unpopular opinion (thread can be locked or deleted now)

[HeffyNeffy]

I realize that there are many arguments against this, but I'd like to state my opinion on it anyways.

It seems silly to me that accounts will not be wiped after beta. This seems to disregard those who can't play for reasons such as game stability or those who do not wish to play until the game exits beta. I realize that POTCO is not a particularly competitive game, but I feel as though everyone should start out on the same foot come full release.

I also realize that many people who have invested hours into the game will not wish to have all of their progress wiped. But that is the nature of beta. I don't think any amount of permanence should be expected when a game is still in development.

Finally, I understand that, because this is most likely the more unpopular opinion regarding this subject, a change in plan will most likely not come to fruition. But I figured I'd share my thoughts.

 

[Stormtimbers]

This seems to disregard those who can't play for reasons such as game stability or those who do not wish to play until the game exits beta.

1. If they can't play because of game stability, that's just too bad. They can get a new computer, or they can troubleshoot, or they can wait for the problem to be fixed.

2. If they don't want to play until after Beta, that is 100% their choice, and they are purposely starting later.

What you are arguing for is like saying that every time someone creates a pirate everyone else should have their progress wiped so they start on the same level as that player.

 

[CaptainGrizz]

While I would normally agree that a wipe should occur at he end of beta testing as is the norm for a new game release, this technically isn't a new game but rather a continuation/revival of an older one. Most of the people playing are like me, players from the original game. We are trying to recreate pirates that we spent years playing. To lose them when this game leaves the beta phase would not be the correct option in this case. Just one old pirate's opinion.

 

[Man in Black]

The only reason why I would consider a wipe is if it inhibits progression from the dev perspective. It seems that transferring pirate data was not much an obstacle than what other bugs and glitches brought. The amount of time it takes to level up and progress through the quest is so long, with quest helper being broken atm, you end up wondering aimlessly trying to find the ship you need to complete the quest. I can see why they would be against destroying hours of work.

 

[HeffyNeffy]

1. If they can't play because of game stability, that's just too bad. They can get a new computer, or they can troubleshoot, or they can wait for the problem to be fixed.

2. If they don't want to play until after Beta, that is 100% their choice, and they are purposely starting later.

What you are arguing for is like saying that every time someone creates a pirate everyone else should have their progress wiped so they start on the same level as that player.

1. You are suggesting people spend hundreds of dollars to play a bug ridden game which still might not work on a new build? No.

From personal experience, I have troubleshooted the game multiple times only to have an update ruin whatever solution I found. And wait for the problem to be fixed? That is exactly why I am proposing the wiping of characters after beta.

2. I understand this point. Though you should consider the above reasons. Many people might wish to wait so that their experience is not littered with crashing and a lack of optimization.

3. That is not even a remotely good analogy. We are talking about the transition between an unfinished product to a finished product. Not everyone has had the opportunity to play the game at a reasonable level.

 

[HeffyNeffy]

While I would normally agree that a wipe should occur at he end of beta testing as is the norm for a new game release, this technically isn't a new game but rather a continuation/revival of an older one. Most of the people playing are like me, players from the original game. We are trying to recreate pirates that we spent years playing. To lose them when this game leaves the beta phase would not be the correct option in this case. Just one old pirate's opinion.

I am also a player from the original game. The fact that this isn't technically a new game is essentially irrelevant. Otherwise, I understand your position. Maybe I should stop looking at the game from such a competitive standpoint, but that's just my personality I guess.

 

[HeffyNeffy]

The only reason why I would consider a wipe is if it inhibits progression from the dev perspective. It seems that transferring pirate data was not much an obstacle than what other bugs and glitches brought. The amount of time it takes to level up and progress through the quest is so long, with quest helper being broken atm, you end up wondering aimlessly trying to find the ship you need to complete the quest. I can see why they would be against destroying hours of work.

The "hours of work" argument was addressed in my original post. I actually feel like this is the strongest argument against my position.

Essentially my argument is that the loss of progression in a game which has relatively fast progression (consider that many people can only play in three hour bursts) is a worthwhile sacrifice to ensure that every player has the chance to play the game at the same level as any other.

 

[Stormtimbers]

1. You are suggesting people spend hundreds of dollars to play a bug ridden game which still might not work on a new build? No.

Then that's your decision. Don't complain about something if you aren't willing to do anything about it.

 

[Punkin Pie]

I think it's great that the Developers are able to keep our Pirates and their progress after Beta. Everyone is putting so much work into looting and essentially 'testing' their hearts out. Many folks wouldn't want to go through all of this progress to have it all taken away.

Hat's off and thanks to Tlopo for keeping our Pirates alive after Beta. Huzzah!!

 

[HeffyNeffy]

Then that's your decision. Don't complain about something if you aren't willing to do anything about it.

That is very immature and inconsiderate logic. Are you assuming that everyone has the ability to blow hundreds of dollars of cash on something that might have no effect on their experience with the game? I don't mean to make an ad hominem argument, but you must live a very sheltered life.

I think it's great that the Developers are able to keep our Pirates and their progress after Beta. Everyone is putting so much work into looting and essentially 'testing' their hearts out. Many folks wouldn't want to go through all of this progress to have it all taken away.

Hat's off and thanks to Tlopo for keeping our Pirates alive after Beta. Huzzah!!

I think you missed the point. I wasn't celebrating the fact that they are ABLE to keep every character. Its a matter of whether they SHOULD. Most transitions from beta to full release involve the wiping of progress. People lose hours of progress in those games, but they move on and start fresh and for the most part, everything is fine.

 

[Stormtimbers]

That is very immature and inconsiderate logic. Are you assuming that everyone has the ability to blow hundreds of dollars of cash on something that might have no effect on their experience with the game? I don't mean to make an ad hominem argument, but you must live a very sheltered life.

Irrelevent, the others should not suffer for it.

 

[Punkin Pie]

I think you missed the point. I wasn't celebrating the fact that they are ABLE to keep every character. SHOULD.

I'm just really happy they're able to keep our pirates. I didn't miss the point

 

[HeffyNeffy]

Irrelevent, the others should not suffer for it.

You say it's irrelevant, yet argue against the point in your previous posts.

And you are essentially saying that the (possibly) small percentage of people who cannot play the game in this state shouldn't be accommodated for upon release. That argument is very easy to debunk.

As I've said before, nearly every game uses this beta to full release transition model because it is the fairest thing to do. In all honesty, I will still play the game come full release, this is only a minor annoyance.

 

[Stormtimbers]

You say it's irrelevant, yet argue against the point in your previous posts.

And you are essentially saying that the (possibly) small percentage of people who cannot play the game in this state shouldn't be accommodated for upon release. That argument is very easy to debunk.

As I've said before, nearly every game uses this beta-full release transition model because it is the fairest thing to do. In all honesty, I will still play the game come full release, this is only a minor annoyance.

The fairest decision is not the best decision.

And I can still argue against irrelevant things.

 

[David Searose]

I don't think this "is a worthwhile sacrifice to ensure that every player has the chance to play the game at the same level as any other."
Is going to make any difference in the game. What are the benefits of this reason alone?

Sure if it would help keep some glitches or bugs out then I'd be fine with the wipe, but I wouldn't spend as much time focusing on doing good in the game if that were the case.

 

[HeffyNeffy]

The fairest decision is not the best decision.

And I can still argue against irrelevant things.

I would disagree with just one small detail of that first sentence: "The fairest decision is not always the best decision". But now the discussion is off topic, and we will have to agree to disagree.

And in terms of relevancy, you either agree that the above points are in fact relevant to the discussion, or you are contradicting yourself.

 

[ceejay]

1. You are suggesting people spend hundreds of dollars to play a bug ridden game which still might not work on a new build? No.

~blank stare~ Where does spending hundreds of dollars come in....? Ya lost me mate. This is a fan-created project that has not and will not see a dime during it's tenure.

And I'm just not following your logic. Oh, I understand the sentiment of fairness, I just don't see how it applies. World of Warcraft has been out for 13 years, but everyone who didn't start when it launched is, by your logic, at some kind of disadvantage because there are already a bunch of level 110's running around. Fairness suggests that the Beta created characters will be at some kind of advantage, and you haven't even really been specific about what kind of advantage they might have.

Oh and just to remind... this is a 10 year old game! lol It's not like this is the next coolest new game that everyone wants to be the first to see. That at least I could understand.

And this is also not an "invitation only" Beta. Anybody can play the Beta, *anybody*. Right now. They can create an account and download the client this very evening and playtest, just like the rest of us. So there's no argument about access to the Beta.

"... to ensure that every player has the chance to play the game at the same level as any other." Well what exactly does that mean? I'm really trying to understand how other players' relative level affects your personal enjoyment of the game. That somehow it is not fair or that it is more advantageous to them to be playing a level 15 or 20 when you are starting a level 1 in a game in which you yourself admitted that the progression is very fast. Well if the progression is so fast, why begrudge the Beta testers a little sugar for helping to report bugs and work on the game?

And there it is I think. There is no meaningful advantage that I can see. I may be wrong, but I just can't see any practical reason why it would grate your cheese so badly other than some nebulous idea of fairness that you cannot even define in a concrete way.

Because I guarantee you that once this game is ripe for playing and goes live, some 20 year old with fond memories of playing the original is going to be on spring break, load up on Monster drinks and hot pockets, and plow through to max level in a week.

Well thank God we wiped the all the hard played Beta characters -- to keep things fair. Right? Not.

 

[HeffyNeffy]

I don't think this "is a worthwhile sacrifice to ensure that every player has the chance to play the game at the same level as any other."
Is going to make any difference in the game. What are the benefits of this reason alone?

Sure if it would help keep some glitches or bugs out then I'd be fine with the wipe, but I wouldn't spend as much time focusing on doing good in the game if that were the case.

You probably have the strongest point here. I addressed it previously by saying:

Maybe I should stop looking at the game from such a competitive standpoint, but that's just my personality I guess.

 

[HeffyNeffy]

redact

I agree on you with just about half of your response.

1. The "hundreds of dollars" thing was about Stormtimbers' suggestion that "They can get a new computer". Has nothing to do with directly supporting the developers.

2. I never mentioned it being an invite only beta. The point is that some people are unable to play due to technical problems.

3. As I have stated previously, the "fairness" aspect comes down to the competitive nature of online games. Maybe it's just me, but I'm definitely the kind of person to load up on Monster Energy and Hot Pockets and race everyone to level 50. I stated above that I will still play the game regardless. I, like many others, primarily want to play the game for nostalgia. It is just a minor disappointment to me.

 

[David Searose]

3. As I have stated previously, the "fairness" aspect comes down to the competitive nature of online games. Maybe it's just me, but I'm definitely the kind of person to load up on Monster Energy and Hot Pockets and race everyone to level 50. I stated above that I will still play the game regardless. I, like many others, primarily want to play the game for nostalgia. It is just a minor disappointment to me.

That I can understand, although I will definitely be creating more characters, so maybe to those of us who would like to race each other, create a new character I suppose?