Critiscm on Legendaries

To those of you that did not get a Legendary at Hallowed Woods I feel for you. I have spent over 1300 hours at Palifico with no Leviathan but have received 2 SF and 2 Patrons. If the drop rate for legends is truly .085 then that is well below what I should have received. As far as Hallowed Woods is concerned I did loot for 400 hours and get 7 legends ( 3 Dark Whispers, 3 Soul Shadows, 1 Sphere) . If you are conservative and estimate 10 skulls per hour the law of averages indicate that this is pretty accurate.
So, what is your impression? I’d say your experience at Palifico is tracking at about 1/3 of the uncertain rate of 0.00085 legendaries per skull chest and your HW numbers are about 2X that rate. The Palifico results should be more nominalized since you spent more time there but aren’t. To me both results seem possible but far enough from nominal to make me wonder whether it’s right.
 
I can't reveal numbers, or if it's the same for every boss. Just that everything loot drop related that we're seeing is what we expected.
Alright makes sense..

@Boots/Darkness
Check out @Bart Gunshot ’s comment in this thread.
Thank you!
 
It was stated on this thread that the RNG ratios have most likely been changed by tlopo and are not copy pasted from potco.
If this isn't true and the RNG is set to a profile of 50K players and tlopo is using those numbers, wouldn't this effect such a smaller group like 5K players of Tlopo. Potco or tlopo, does the RNG have any total player count as a parameter?

I think the staff is rather good at looking at both sides of things, coding and otherwise. But consider players who aren't math and odds conditioned and math isn't their first language, like myself. When in game when I see people complaining about their fifth freeze and seventh el patron AND I don't see they are looting any longer or intense than I am, and I've only gotten three legendary in almost three years that staff can see how the layman player can feel there's something wrong. It just simply doesn't look right. So that said, I can see how back and forth this subject can get.

Sadly, based on direct observation in the last year, I have seen much game shenanigans in game and being educated in the forums as well that nothing would surprise me including gaining items questionably.
Our odds aren’t the same as POTCOs.

Refer to Truecrash’s above posts for any other questions you may have.
 
Honestly it seems like most people are upset by the huge amount of wasted time that comes from not winning the lottery essentially. I'm not gonna lie it's pretty upsetting to me too. I gathered over 2k haunted bones during this event and didn't see a single legendary during the event. Despite a very large amount of time spent looting bosses non stop.

(I did find one SF I'm sailing near the end of the month but it seems like sailing loot has a much higher drop rate than land. )

I would recommend a kind of loot curve to be implemented that makes chances slightly better for pirates who spend alot of time looting

For example every 100 instances of a boss killed the chance could go up by a small percentage capping out at maybe double the chance

So instead of .085 after 100 kills it would go to .0095 then .011, .021

And so on and so forth until it hits an upper limit where it can't increase anymore.


I don't think legendary items should be commonplace but I do think that any pirate who spends 30 hours a week looting a boss should have a good chance of getting that legend

Also upon receiving a legendary this bonus would reset regardless of which legendary it is
 
Honestly it seems like most people are upset by the huge amount of wasted time that comes from not winning the lottery essentially. I'm not gonna lie it's pretty upsetting to me too. I gathered over 2k haunted bones during this event and didn't see a single legendary during the event. Despite a very large amount of time spent looting bosses non stop.

(I did find one SF I'm sailing near the end of the month but it seems like sailing loot has a much higher drop rate than land. )

I would recommend a kind of loot curve to be implemented that makes chances slightly better for pirates who spend alot of time looting

For example every 100 instances of a boss killed the chance could go up by a small percentage capping out at maybe double the chance

So instead of .085 after 100 kills it would go to .0095 then .011, .021

And so on and so forth until it hits an upper limit where it can't increase anymore.


I don't think legendary items should be commonplace but I do think that any pirate who spends 30 hours a week looting a boss should have a good chance of getting that legend

Also upon receiving a legendary this bonus would reset regardless of which legendary it is
While an interesting idea, I think something like that may add a unattainable amount of extra work in tracking each individual pirate and every nuance of each and every boss/enemy battle. Data bits take up space. I believe the game already does all sorts of tracking, but that sounds like quite a bit more pressure to pull off. Obviously I could be wrong with my opinion.
 
Honestly it seems like most people are upset by the huge amount of wasted time that comes from not winning the lottery essentially. I'm not gonna lie it's pretty upsetting to me too. I gathered over 2k haunted bones during this event and didn't see a single legendary during the event. Despite a very large amount of time spent looting bosses non stop.

(I did find one SF I'm sailing near the end of the month but it seems like sailing loot has a much higher drop rate than land. )

I would recommend a kind of loot curve to be implemented that makes chances slightly better for pirates who spend alot of time looting

For example every 100 instances of a boss killed the chance could go up by a small percentage capping out at maybe double the chance

So instead of .085 after 100 kills it would go to .0095 then .011, .021

And so on and so forth until it hits an upper limit where it can't increase anymore.


I don't think legendary items should be commonplace but I do think that any pirate who spends 30 hours a week looting a boss should have a good chance of getting that legend

Also upon receiving a legendary this bonus would reset regardless of which legendary it is
I remember when I had been putting upwards of 50 hours of looting in a week or more. I don't mind drop rates %... I DO care about how random bosses indirectly decrease drop rates for old LC. That is the only problem I see at this time.
 
I too realize that this is a very touchy subject so here are my thoughts *disclaimer these are not to be taken as fact, these are my experiences and my observations*:
1. Your first legendary is the hardest and I think it should be that way. I don't know how looting is coded so I won't pretend to know for a second how it works, but this is what I experienced. I actually had an original main account that I ended up deleting because I felt I spent a significant amount of time looting and didn't get a legendary. I made this account (Kate Daggersharp) and between the main and this account, it took me a year and a half (9 months of heavy looting) to loot my first legendary.
2. Everyone's patterns are different. For some people, they get legendaries at a certain amount of skulls. For myself, I was able to pick up a pattern of when I'm about to get one. For example, I start getting a ton of famed in a row after going through a really long dry spell. Is it coincidence? Possibly but I like to think I've figured it out.
3. Legendaries should remain difficult to get. I LOVE pulling a legendary that I've been trying to get for months after rage quits, believing I'm bugged, complaining to everyone in chat, etc etc. LOL. It makes it all the more sweeter. My first legendary was Mercer's which was AMAZING and I almost literally died when I got it.

Feel free to discuss, I know I was one of those people who believed I was bugged and made several different accounts with different email addresses because I was convinced my account was whack. You really do have to put a ton of time into standing around in caves *chuckle*
 
I too realize that this is a very touchy subject so here are my thoughts *disclaimer these are not to be taken as fact, these are my experiences and my observations*:
1. Your first legendary is the hardest and I think it should be that way. I don't know how looting is coded so I won't pretend to know for a second how it works, but this is what I experienced. I actually had an original main account that I ended up deleting because I felt I spent a significant amount of time looting and didn't get a legendary. I made this account (Kate Daggersharp) and between the main and this account, it took me a year and a half (9 months of heavy looting) to loot my first legendary.
2. Everyone's patterns are different. For some people, they get legendaries at a certain amount of skulls. For myself, I was able to pick up a pattern of when I'm about to get one. For example, I start getting a ton of famed in a row after going through a really long dry spell. Is it coincidence? Possibly but I like to think I've figured it out.
3. Legendaries should remain difficult to get. I LOVE pulling a legendary that I've been trying to get for months after rage quits, believing I'm bugged, complaining to everyone in chat, etc etc. LOL. It makes it all the more sweeter. My first legendary was Mercer's which was AMAZING and I almost literally died when I got it.

Feel free to discuss, I know I was one of those people who believed I was bugged and made several different accounts with different email addresses because I was convinced my account was whack. You really do have to put a ton of time into standing around in caves *chuckle*
lol. I'm not sure if we are actually seeing patterns that could be repeatable, or causing chemical imbalances in our brain membranes like some sort of dopamine rush from fatigue. But I'll tell you what, the last two legendary I got was after getting 7 + fames in a row in less than three hours grinding a boss and the second time I even predicted it in chat and I'm sure I've posted something about the whisper with those comments. I may have deleted them however.
So, there's that. I would honestly say, I'm 50/50 about the whole loot deal.
 
Honestly it seems like most people are upset by the huge amount of wasted time that comes from not winning the lottery essentially. I'm not gonna lie it's pretty upsetting to me too. I gathered over 2k haunted bones during this event and didn't see a single legendary during the event. Despite a very large amount of time spent looting bosses non stop.

(I did find one SF I'm sailing near the end of the month but it seems like sailing loot has a much higher drop rate than land. )

I would recommend a kind of loot curve to be implemented that makes chances slightly better for pirates who spend alot of time looting

For example every 100 instances of a boss killed the chance could go up by a small percentage capping out at maybe double the chance

So instead of .085 after 100 kills it would go to .0095 then .011, .021

And so on and so forth until it hits an upper limit where it can't increase anymore.


I don't think legendary items should be commonplace but I do think that any pirate who spends 30 hours a week looting a boss should have a good chance of getting that legend

Also upon receiving a legendary this bonus would reset regardless of which legendary it is

This is certainly doable depending on how we implement it, but it would take a lot of careful design work and planning to get right. If it ever comes down to having to rework the way loot works behind the scenes, we'll definitely be keeping systems like this in mind. Thanks for the suggestion!


Also, for what it's worth, we totally understand the frustration with not 'winning the lottery' as you put it. Staff have to put up with the same grind as everyone else, so we have a pretty good feeling for what it's like to never loot a legendary. wheres my yore :(
 
Honestly it seems like most people are upset by the huge amount of wasted time that comes from not winning the lottery essentially. I'm not gonna lie it's pretty upsetting to me too. I gathered over 2k haunted bones during this event and didn't see a single legendary during the event. Despite a very large amount of time spent looting bosses non stop.

(I did find one SF I'm sailing near the end of the month but it seems like sailing loot has a much higher drop rate than land. )

I would recommend a kind of loot curve to be implemented that makes chances slightly better for pirates who spend alot of time looting

For example every 100 instances of a boss killed the chance could go up by a small percentage capping out at maybe double the chance

So instead of .085 after 100 kills it would go to .0095 then .011, .021

And so on and so forth until it hits an upper limit where it can't increase anymore.


I don't think legendary items should be commonplace but I do think that any pirate who spends 30 hours a week looting a boss should have a good chance of getting that legend

Also upon receiving a legendary this bonus would reset regardless of which legendary it is
I can see your concept, however I believe it may go down that slippery slope of rewarding special people. Also, if the community knows that you get a guaranteed reward, and there's no doubt there that its a form of guarantee of reward say after 25 hours of looting, then everyone will only do 25 hours and expect a legendary. I don't think the game should go there. It's probably better to have a chance of getting a legendary in 3 hours or 3 years. I mean, if the game says "Hey, if you spend 35 hours straight, you TOO can get a legendary.

Also, I may be weird, but anyone spending 30 hours or more on a video game in a week needs to get a life, not a legendary reward. Sorry.
 
I can see your concept, however I believe it may go down that slippery slope of rewarding special people. Also, if the community knows that you get a guaranteed reward, and there's no doubt there that its a form of guarantee of reward say after 25 hours of looting, then everyone will only do 25 hours and expect a legendary. I don't think the game should go there. It's probably better to have a chance of getting a legendary in 3 hours or 3 years. I mean, if the game says "Hey, if you spend 35 hours straight, you TOO can get a legendary.

Also, I may be weird, but anyone spending 30 hours or more on a video game in a week needs to get a life, not a legendary reward. Sorry.
It's not a guarantee just makes it a bit more likely to receive an item.
 
I can see your concept, however I believe it may go down that slippery slope of rewarding special people. Also, if the community knows that you get a guaranteed reward, and there's no doubt there that its a form of guarantee of reward say after 25 hours of looting, then everyone will only do 25 hours and expect a legendary. I don't think the game should go there. It's probably better to have a chance of getting a legendary in 3 hours or 3 years. I mean, if the game says "Hey, if you spend 35 hours straight, you TOO can get a legendary.

Also, I may be weird, but anyone spending 30 hours or more on a video game in a week needs to get a life, not a legendary reward. Sorry.

This is certainly doable depending on how we implement it, but it would take a lot of careful design work and planning to get right. If it ever comes down to having to rework the way loot works behind the scenes, we'll definitely be keeping systems like this in mind. Thanks for the suggestion!


Also, for what it's worth, we totally understand the frustration with not 'winning the lottery' as you put it. Staff have to put up with the same grind as everyone else, so we have a pretty good feeling for what it's like to never loot a legendary. wheres my yore :(



That's honestly so true, and most of us are adults too- unless there's actually nothing to most of us don't have the time to burn tons of hours into video games. And with how small TLOPO is and how rare legendaries actually are I don't see the community having a massive influx of legendaries at any point in time unless there's just more and more legendaries added.

But as of right, the way legendaries work you're more likely to get one if you just grind one for unfathomable hours on end, the chances of getting a legendary from randomly hitting an enemy, while it has happened, is nearly 0. There is the satisfaction of getting one, but I feel like it's more exhausting than rewarding.

I feel like another good way that'd make farming legendaries more forgiving without directly increasing the chances for one to drop is that the longer you kill a boss constantly, the more higher your chance to get skulls will get ( until it caps at a certain points ).
 
That's honestly so true, and most of us are adults too- unless there's actually nothing to most of us don't have the time to burn tons of hours into video games. And with how small TLOPO is and how rare legendaries actually are I don't see the community having a massive influx of legendaries at any point in time unless there's just more and more legendaries added.

But as of right, the way legendaries work you're more likely to get one if you just grind one for unfathomable hours on end, the chances of getting a legendary from randomly hitting an enemy, while it has happened, is nearly 0. There is the satisfaction of getting one, but I feel like it's more exhausting than rewarding.

I feel like another good way that'd make farming legendaries more forgiving without directly increasing the chances for one to drop is that the longer you kill a boss constantly, the more higher your chance to get skulls will get ( until it caps at a certain points ).
IDK. We get awarded in these kinds of games for doing quests and battles and in game functions as part of the game itself. I really feel strongly that just coming on a game, grinding away at the same enemy for hours instead of going outside in the real world is anything worthy of any kind of even slightly better that average drop award. That's my opinion that there's absolutely nothing special about personally choosing to stand around in groups midlessly stabbing a enemy, especially when people are doing three or four different things like watching uboob, another computer or netflix while either just pounding the ctrl key or even auto clicking should be given any kinds of breaks.

Why would such conduct be awarded on the same level as someone actually doing quests or interfacing with guilds and such or perish the thought... beta testing and giving in game reports?

Tonight, a lower level pirate trying to level their staff on a boss gave it one attempt and three people in the mob immediately ordered that person to stop using their staff. "could you not use that" is an order, not a request or even being civil about it. Why would I want to reward that kind of conduct with a gift of a legendary.

It just doesn't make any playability sense to me.
At all.
Sorry.
 
IDK. We get awarded in these kinds of games for doing quests and battles and in game functions as part of the game itself. I really feel strongly that just coming on a game, grinding away at the same enemy for hours instead of going outside in the real world is anything worthy of any kind of even slightly better that average drop award. That's my opinion that there's absolutely nothing special about personally choosing to stand around in groups midlessly stabbing a enemy, especially when people are doing three or four different things like watching uboob, another computer or netflix while either just pounding the ctrl key or even auto clicking should be given any kinds of breaks.

Why would such conduct be awarded on the same level as someone actually doing quests or interfacing with guilds and such or perish the thought... beta testing and giving in game reports?

Tonight, a lower level pirate trying to level their staff on a boss gave it one attempt and three people in the mob immediately ordered that person to stop using their staff. "could you not use that" is an order, not a request or even being civil about it. Why would I want to reward that kind of conduct with a gift of a legendary.

It just doesn't make any playability sense to me.
At all.
Sorry.
Is it so much of a sin that someone prefers using their computer to something like working on a car or playing football or basketball?

Players are the lifeblood of any game whether it's a free project or bot. Rewarding a player who actually plays a good amount of your game is just good form.

Looting is just as valid of a way to play as questing. The reason a good many players don't bother with questing is because it's just not rewarding enough. You can level up faster just by killing enemies and outside of the totem quests and weapon quests there are very few quests with decent rewards.

A great many of us are much more active than you would expect. There are entire guilds of people who get together specifically to spend a few hours looting. Greed & Glory is a tremendous example of the community that can be attracted to doing so.

Just because they are sitting in front of a computer clicking a boss DOESNT mean that they aren't getting social interaction or that they aren't actively involved with the game

Just because you have had some negative experiences with players being mean doesn't at all mean that were all like that. Just last night I was looting the twins on abassa with 30+ players and not a single one complained about grenades or staffs.

It's confirmation bias and it's dangerous to the community.
 
Is it so much of a sin that someone prefers using their computer to something like working on a car or playing football or basketball?

Players are the lifeblood of any game whether it's a free project or bot. Rewarding a player who actually plays a good amount of your game is just good form.

Looting is just as valid of a way to play as questing. The reason a good many players don't bother with questing is because it's just not rewarding enough. You can level up faster just by killing enemies and outside of the totem quests and weapon quests there are very few quests with decent rewards.

A great many of us are much more active than you would expect. There are entire guilds of people who get together specifically to spend a few hours looting. Greed & Glory is a tremendous example of the community that can be attracted to doing so.

Just because they are sitting in front of a computer clicking a boss DOESNT mean that they aren't getting social interaction or that they aren't actively involved with the game

Just because you have had some negative experiences with players being mean doesn't at all mean that were all like that. Just last night I was looting the twins on abassa with 30+ players and not a single one complained about grenades or staffs.

It's confirmation bias and it's dangerous to the community.
Well said, There are players out there who don't get the chance to go 'outside'. I'm personally one of them, I spend most of my time inside taking care of a sick family member and games like this are my break from real life. Honestly I'd be lost without TLOPO and the amazing guild full of my amazing friends who are always there for me no matter what. ( Thank you Devs for bringing this game back <3 )

Honestly in my opinion time doesn't really effect your chance in getting a legendary, I mean there are people that have been at a boss for literally 1 minute and have gotten a legendary on their first kill. It's all luck/RNG. Just take what time you have and eventually you'll get one. Keep trying and don't give up.
 
Is it so much of a sin that someone prefers using their computer to something like working on a car or playing football or basketball?

Players are the lifeblood of any game whether it's a free project or bot. Rewarding a player who actually plays a good amount of your game is just good form.

Looting is just as valid of a way to play as questing. The reason a good many players don't bother with questing is because it's just not rewarding enough. You can level up faster just by killing enemies and outside of the totem quests and weapon quests there are very few quests with decent rewards.

A great many of us are much more active than you would expect. There are entire guilds of people who get together specifically to spend a few hours looting. Greed & Glory is a tremendous example of the community that can be attracted to doing so.

Just because they are sitting in front of a computer clicking a boss DOESNT mean that they aren't getting social interaction or that they aren't actively involved with the game

Just because you have had some negative experiences with players being mean doesn't at all mean that were all like that. Just last night I was looting the twins on abassa with 30+ players and not a single one complained about grenades or staffs.

It's confirmation bias and it's dangerous to the community.
"It's confirmation bias and it's dangerous to the community. " Would you mind explaining that comment, I do not understand the context here.
Thanks.

This is not an open finished game. We're beta testers. We should not be rewarded for testing their game by altering game odds in favor of, ah, favors.
And please, sitting at a boss for 15 hours straight and then boasting and or complaining about a legendary is NOT beta testing by any stretch of the logic. From what I've read on the forums, looting wasn't even a thing in potco, it's basically a tlopo creation or evolution so what exactly are people beta testing at 10 plus hours at a time? Chat control? Speed hat switching? Multiple boss agro?

The original poster feels legendary drops should be a little less impossible. I get that and felt that too, but staff did effect loot drops by I'm almost sure that they did, increase the skull drop rate itself. Without having to mess with the rng insides, they gave us better odds due to volume of dropped skulls. I'm almost positive I saw the change some time ago. I was counting at the time as well. This seemed the fairest way to appease the masses without possible favoritism or look of favoritism.

I log on and run around and do stuff and then spend my last hour at a boss often, just like many people do for whatever their time limits allow.
But basically stating that looting is more important than all other aspects of the tlopo is disingenuous to a good part of the tlopo gaming community.
 
That's honestly so true, and most of us are adults too- unless there's actually nothing to most of us don't have the time to burn tons of hours into video games. And with how small TLOPO is and how rare legendaries actually are I don't see the community having a massive influx of legendaries at any point in time unless there's just more and more legendaries added.

But as of right, the way legendaries work you're more likely to get one if you just grind one for unfathomable hours on end, the chances of getting a legendary from randomly hitting an enemy, while it has happened, is nearly 0. There is the satisfaction of getting one, but I feel like it's more exhausting than rewarding.

I feel like another good way that'd make farming legendaries more forgiving without directly increasing the chances for one to drop is that the longer you kill a boss constantly, the more higher your chance to get skulls will get ( until it caps at a certain points ).
Then we're right back to rewarding 30 people on a boss who surpass a certain numbers of hours standing around clicking that somehow they deserve better odds on a legendary than another who is questing, running around fighting enemies, guilding with friends.
I'm not going to support and reward such mob conduct. You're only in the mob to get yourself a reward, nothing else and no real interfacing is truly done. And if one wants to go stand off a boss themselves for hours, that's on them too, but I don't believe a game should reward this.
IMHO.
 
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