Debate about sailing loot

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
It's been my experience that you never get good loot when you get 10 or more skulls. I don't think any of the crew got anything either, seems to be a real thing. I'm not sure if it's on purpose or a bug. It's possible that the longer you are out the worse your loot will be, I've heard that that is the case on boss kills, this run took about 2hours 15 minutes, but sometimes I get 10 skulls and full hold pretty quick and still get zip??? I didn't get a single famed and I'm not sure if anyone else did but they didn't say anything. It was really all about getting that screenshot, a perfect loot run has been a goal and there's only 1 thing I still want from sailing loot. We were all super happy with the result regardless of the loot. I just like the sailing and crew tbh.
 
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Truecrash

TLOPO Staff
No, it's been my experience that you never get good loot when you get 10 or more skulls. I don't think any of the crew got anything either, seems to be a real thing. I'm not sure if it's on purpose or a bug. It's possible that the longer you are out the worse your loot will be, I've heard that that is the case on boss kills, this run took about 2hours 15 minutes, but sometimes I get 10 skulls and full hold pretty quick and still get zip??? I didn't get a single famed and I'm not sure if anyone else did but they didn't say anything. It was really all about getting that screenshot, a perfect loot run has been a goal and there's only 1 thing I still want from sailing loot. We were all super happy with the result regardless of the loot. I just like the sailing and crew tbh.
Sailing loot is working as intended, there's no features or bugs that would cause this. Just sounds like bad luck.

I've heard that that is the case on boss kills
That is not the case, boss loot also doesn't work like this.
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
Sailing loot is working as intended, there's no features or bugs that would cause this. Just sounds like bad luck.



That is not the case, boss loot also doesn't work like this.
Interesting, thanks for the comments. Your statement about there being no bugs is suspect however. I’ve certainly never tested the boss loot theory which seemed an unlikely mechanic and if you say it’s not that way I believe you. In terms of sailing loot however I’ve certainly seen the bug on the popular server where everyone constantly gets great loot, a famed or legendary with every skull, until the server resets, I don’t see how you could possibly think that is not a bug. On high skull runs I’m less certain but I don’t recall ever getting a famed on a run with 10 or more skulls , not sure exactly how many runs I’ve had with that but I’d guess 12 or so, maybe I’m way off on that, lol.
 

Truecrash

TLOPO Staff
Interesting, thanks for the comments. Your statement about there being no bugs is suspect however. I’ve certainly never tested the boss loot theory which seemed an unlikely mechanic and if you say it’s not that way I believe you. In terms of sailing loot however I’ve certainly seen the bug on the popular server where everyone constantly gets great loot, a famed or legendary with every skull, until the server resets, I don’t see how you could possibly think that is not a bug. On high skull runs I’m less certain but I don’t recall ever getting a famed on a run with 10 or more skulls , not sure exactly how many runs I’ve had with that but I’d guess 12 or so, maybe I’m way off on that, lol.
It sounds like you may be confused about the definition of a bug -- a bug is essentially unexpected results from your code, and may or may not be negative in nature.

This means what you're describing isn't a bug, as it's expected behavior. Additionally, there's nothing being incremented or tracked over time in regards to loot, so a server reset won't change RNG or suddenly make people get worse or better loot. Likewise, loot for sailing is determined on the fly as you sink ships, and doesn't care about your total amount of chests -- you can read more about this in the release notes for 1.21.6.

At the end of the day it's purely just luck, which I can understand may seem buggy or unfair, but that's just the nature of luck ;) .
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
It sounds like you may be confused about the definition of a bug -- a bug is essentially unexpected results from your code, and may or may not be negative in nature.

This means what you're describing isn't a bug, as it's expected behavior. Additionally, there's nothing being incremented or tracked over time in regards to loot, so a server reset won't change RNG or suddenly make people get worse or better loot. Likewise, loot for sailing is determined on the fly as you sink ships, and doesn't care about your total amount of chests -- you can read more about this in the release notes for 1.21.6.

At the end of the day it's purely just luck, which I can understand may seem buggy or unfair, but that's just the nature of luck ;) .
I have no dispute about your assertion that time is not a factor in loot determination, I had only heard that it was in land looting bosses and had the thought that it could explain the consistently poor loot that always seems to accompany high skull count loot runs, to be honest I think I did express doubt about that theory in my original post. The consistently poor loot in high skull count runs is uncertain in my mind but I’ve had enough of them to feel that there’s something amiss, as it’s not just me personally but my crew also and so as the total skull count gets higher and higher, several hundred now, and the trend continues, as I said in my original post, it seems to be real, once again I do not say it is real like I do with the following. Your assertion that it is normal to get a famed in every skull run after run until the server resets is patently false, I assume that you just don’t believe that such a bug exists. Also if you do any sailing run at all you will see that you almost never get exactly what is shown in your hold, for example: you are very likely to get a few loot pouches, lets say you get 10 and all 10 show in your manifest when look at it while at sea then you port and look at the plunder you will almost always see less than 10 loot pouches, generally much less, you only need do one short run on any server to see this. So, no sailing loot is not working perfectly for sure. I do say that it is vastly improved over how it was but definitely disagree that it’s perfect.
 

Truecrash

TLOPO Staff
Your assertion that it is normal to get a famed in every skull run after run until the server resets is patently false, I assume that you just don’t believe that such a bug exists.
I never said this, please read what I wrote again:

a server reset won't change RNG or suddenly make people get worse or better loot.
I've looked over the code that handles sailing loot. It has nothing to do with servers resetting, at all. Your chances of getting a famed will be the same before and after a server reset. If you're not receiving lots of famed in your skull chests, it's because of poor luck.

Also if you do any sailing run at all you will see that you almost never get exactly what is shown in your hold, for example: you are very likely to get a few loot pouches, lets say you get 10 and all 10 show in your manifest when look at it while at sea then you port and look at the plunder you will almost always see less than 10 loot pouches, generally much less, you only need do one short run on any server to see this.
This is intended behavior. Those loot pouches likely only contained gold, which is collected automatically. Because the loot pouch is empty, it doesn't show up. No reason to display an empty pouch, aye?
 
I believe sailing loot is either bugged or has some crazy way of calculating odds of loot drops. I got a skull chest from a navy ferret the other day and got a full moon special blunderbuss in it

On average you need much much fewer loot containers to recieve famed items then any other method
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
OK, so, any debate as to whether there are any sailing loot bugs still out there is now over for me: Last night I did again experience the bug where you don't get all your Loot Skull Chests and the loot that was inside those you got was extraordinarily good. This bug had been claimed fixed by the developers but it is now obvious that it is only less common not actually gone. In the screenshot I ported 9 skulls but got only 3, the other crew on my ship also experienced this same bug at the same time, loot announced included such nuggets as: Lost Sword, Grand Blunderbuss, Lost World Sea Chart and many more off this single run. The bug did continue in the next run where I got 2 skulls out of 5 or 6 that were ported with my loot including the War Bayonet.
Screen Shot 2019-11-07 at 10.52.35 PM.png
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
Sailing loot is working as intended, there's no features or bugs that would cause this. Just sounds like bad luck.



That is not the case, boss loot also doesn't work like this.
Bad luck is generally expected in this game and I have it often when I have no suspicion of a bug. Bad luck every single time with lots and lots of reps of a particular condition is an indication of a bug, perhaps not proof.
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
It sounds like you may be confused about the definition of a bug -- a bug is essentially unexpected results from your code, and may or may not be negative in nature.

This means what you're describing isn't a bug, as it's expected behavior. Additionally, there's nothing being incremented or tracked over time in regards to loot, so a server reset won't change RNG or suddenly make people get worse or better loot. Likewise, loot for sailing is determined on the fly as you sink ships, and doesn't care about your total amount of chests -- you can read more about this in the release notes for 1.21.6.

At the end of the day it's purely just luck, which I can understand may seem buggy or unfair, but that's just the nature of luck ;) .
I am certainly not, nor ever have been, confused about the definition of a bug.

I do definitely experience unexpected behavior in sailing loot, not all the time but occasionally. As I've said, I only said that about land loot because it was in another thread and I never really had seen it myself, so I accept that time is not a factor in loot quality.

"At the end of the day" it is not pure luck and I am definitely experiencing some sailing loot bugs as of 11/7/19.
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
I believe sailing loot is either bugged or has some crazy way of calculating odds of loot drops. I got a skull chest from a navy ferret the other day and got a full moon special blunderbuss in it

On average you need much much fewer loot containers to recieve famed items then any other method
I have always thought that tlopo has a higher drop rate for good loot in sailing than potco did, I think this is intentional. I my mind, not necessarily fact, it is about double that of land loot where as in potco it was about the same as land loot. The thing is that in land loot you can get so many more loot containers than you can in sailing, so, I think tlopo recognized that and made some compensation for it. This is not what I'm talking about as a bug. I too have got a screenshot of a Ferret dropping a Skull, I've only ever seen one of these in 3 years so I don't see this as a bug either, just luck, in potco I did get several Skulls off Ferrets, in fact I am collecting screenshot of skulls dropping from every ship type and currently have all but the Viper. I have never noticed any game behavior that seemed to be a bug in terms of what loot containers drop and how often they drop in sailing loot, all seems quite consistent on that front to me.

I do say the missing skulls and super loot that occasionally starts happening is a definite bug, have proof, and I also feel that I am experiencing exceptionally poor loot when my skull count gets high which I suspect is a bug, no proof of it.
 
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squintz

Pirate Lord
I have always thought that tlopo has a higher drop rate for good loot in sailing than potco did, I think this is intentional. I my mind, not necessarily fact, it is about double that of land loot where as in potco it was about the same as land loot. The thing is that in land loot you can get so many more loot containers than you can in sailing, so, I think tlopo recognized that and made some compensation for it. This is not what I'm talking about as a bug. I too have got a screenshot of a Ferret dropping a Skull, I've only ever seen one of these in 3 years so I don't see this as a bug either, just luck, in potco I did get several Skulls off Ferrets, in fact I am collecting screenshot of skulls dropping from every ship type and currently have all but the Viper. I have never noticed any game behavior that seemed to be a bug in terms of what loot containers drop and how often they drop in sailing loot, all seems quite consistent on that front to me.

I do say the missing skulls and super loot that occasionally starts happening is a definite bug, have proof, and I also feel that I am experiencing exceptionally poor loot when my skull count gets high which I suspect is a bug, no proof of it.
I'm on your side, but is it possible that a skull on the sailing manifest is so crappy as to be just gold and one trinket, which if it were a pouch would be collected automatically and not be displayed? Or even just gold? So perhaps the skull is treated just like other containers in the factoring/distributing phase? Just a thought.
 
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Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
I'm on your side, but is it possible that a skull on the sailing manifest is so crappy as to be just gold and one trinket, which if it were a pouch would be collected automatically and not be displayed? Or even just gold? So perhaps the skull is treated just like other containers in the factoring/distributing phase? Just a thought.
You think I might have got 6 of 9 skulls off one run that only contained gold? I’ve never seen a single land skull ever that only contained gold. I didn’t really mean for there to be sides, just conversation and facts.
 

squintz

Pirate Lord
You think I might have got 6 of 9 skulls off one run that only contained gold? I’ve never seen a single land skull ever that only contained gold. I didn’t really mean for there to be sides, just conversation and facts.
Well, I've seen untold numbers of skull chests with just gold and a potion or just gold and a jewel, or gold and one entry of ammo. All of those items are collected automatically as per truecrash. If indeed the container itself makes no difference in auto collection of those kinds of items, then it stands to reason even a skull may not display? I'd also like to know why I see less skulls when porting than I see on my manifest just before porting.
I had quite a few screenshots saved of crappy skulls but deleted them off my computer in a fit of forum frustration. Oh well.
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
Well, I've seen untold numbers of skull chests with just gold and a potion or just gold and a jewel, or gold and one entry of ammo. All of those items are collected automatically as per truecrash. If indeed the container itself makes no difference in auto collection of those kinds of items, then it stands to reason even a skull may not display? I'd also like to know why I see less skulls when porting than I see on my manifest just before porting.
I had quite a few screenshots saved of crappy skulls but deleted them off my computer in a fit of forum frustration. Oh well.
She only said gold was collected automatically, I can see this now I look at the screenshots, gold never shows in the container contents. The other items you mention do show.
 

Truecrash

TLOPO Staff
Bad luck is generally expected in this game and I have it often when I have no suspicion of a bug. Bad luck every single time with lots and lots of reps of a particular condition is an indication of a bug, perhaps not proof.
The conversation was about the drop rate of famed, which is working as intended from what I was told. What you're talking about is indication of bad luck, nothing more. It's the same with land loot -- some people get lucky and get all the legendaries, others never see a single one for their lifetime on the game.

I am certainly not, nor ever have been, confused about the definition of a bug.

I do definitely experience unexpected behavior in sailing loot, not all the time but occasionally. As I've said, I only said that about land loot because it was in another thread and I never really had seen it myself, so I accept that time is not a factor in loot quality.

"At the end of the day" it is not pure luck and I am definitely experiencing some sailing loot bugs as of 11/7/19.
I said it was unexpected behavior in the code, not in sailing loot drop-rates for individual players -- just because you do not expect the behavior of not always getting a famed in your loot, doesn't mean it is a bug. Sailing loot drop-rates are intentional, as per the original topic of the discussion from the post you quoted.

I'll ask around about the skulls not always appearing, better safe than sorry with that one. However, in regards to the original topic about drop-rates, my answer remains: It's not bugged, you're just unlucky.
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
The conversation was about the drop rate of famed, which is working as intended from what I was told. What you're talking about is indication of bad luck, nothing more. It's the same with land loot -- some people get lucky and get all the legendaries, others never see a single one for their lifetime on the game.



I said it was unexpected behavior in the code, not in sailing loot drop-rates for individual players -- just because you do not expect the behavior of not always getting a famed in your loot, doesn't mean it is a bug. Sailing loot drop-rates are intentional, as per the original topic of the discussion from the post you quoted.

I'll ask around about the skulls not always appearing, better safe than sorry with that one. However, in regards to the original topic about drop-rates, my answer remains: It's not bugged, you're just unlucky.
No, the topic is not drop rates and never was. It all started with my comment about a possible bug in that I seem to have inordinately bad luck when my skull count gets above 10 and to my mind has evolved into a discussion about sailing loot bugs. You, of course, are continuously saying there are no bugs and I am certain that you are wrong about that. In terms of the poor loot when high numbers of skulls are attained I am not absolutely certain but it is a trend that has lasted for years which leads me to suspect bug, I have no proof. The super loot with missing skulls is definitely a bug that was acknowledged by developers and pronounced fixed but I did experience it yesterday, so, it is not fixed.
 

Truecrash

TLOPO Staff
No, the topic is not drop rates and never was. It all started with my comment about a possible bug in that I seem to have inordinately bad luck when my skull count gets above 10 and to my mind has evolved into a discussion about sailing loot bugs.
Right, and I made it clear that with how sailing loot is calculated that the total amount looted is irrelevant, and that it really is just bad luck. For what it's worth, something dropping from loot would indeed be related to drop-rates as well.

You, of course, are continuously saying there are no bugs and I am certain that you are wrong about that. In terms of the poor loot when high numbers of skulls are attained I am not absolutely certain but it is a trend that has lasted for years which leads me to suspect bug.
Sailing loot calculation was completely redone recently, as you can see in our release notes. You can't possibly be noticing a trend involving it for years, because the update hasn't even been out for a year.

I'm continuously saying there's no bugs because I've checked more times than I care to count into these issues, and neither myself nor other developers have found anything wrong since the recent updates.

I have no proof.
I'm aware, which is why I'm trying to say there's no bugs like what you describe. Proof is pretty important here.

The super loot with missing skulls is definitely a bug that was acknowledged by developers and pronounced fixed but I did experience it yesterday, so, it is not fixed.
I've asked about that, and we are certain there are no bugs involving this. It's working as intended.
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
Right, and I made it clear that with how sailing loot is calculated that the total amount looted is irrelevant, and that it really is just bad luck. For what it's worth, something dropping from loot would indeed be related to drop-rates as well.



Sailing loot calculation was completely redone recently, as you can see in our release notes. You can't possibly be noticing a trend involving it for years, because the update hasn't even been out for a year.

I'm continuously saying there's no bugs because I've checked more times than I care to count into these issues, and neither myself nor other developers have found anything wrong since the recent updates.



I'm aware, which is why I'm trying to say there's no bugs like what you describe. Proof is pretty important here.



I've asked about that, and we are certain there are no bugs involving this. It's working as intended.
Clearly you didn't look at the screenshot that shows 3 skulls where there should be 9, I'm afraid you are lining in a famous North African river.
 
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