Question Dev Feedback: Should the Cave of Lost Souls be moved?

[The Crew]

Yarrrrrr maties. Mr. Dev is back with another thread about a pointless little detail in the game that has bothered the heck out of him since he was a little child. I even emailed Disney about this idea. They told me I was wonderful and creative and that I show a lot of knowledge about Pirates Online and that they'd forward my idea to the devs. Guess what? It NEVER went through. Customer support person #42333 LIED!

And you know what? Now that I see the POTCO source code, I've found that THIS CHANGE IS SUPER EASY. It'd take like FIVE MINUTES, TOPS!

Whew, sorry guys. I have a lot of pent up anger over being SNUBBED by the POTCO DEVS!

So, what is my proposal?

- Move the Cave of Lost Souls (where Foulberto is) entrance door from where it currently is (Fire Bat corner) to here:

https://imgur.com/IeSiHM8

Here is my reasoning:



- In the official lore for Foulberto (that I'm guessing only like 5 people remember, but that's okay) states that Foulberto and his men were sealed into a section of El Patron's Mine after committing a mutiny. How is that possible if his cave entrance is on the OTHER SIDE OF THE ISLAND?!?!?!

• Disney, tsk tsk. You never think these things through.

- The entrance is a cellar. Why is there a cellar out in the middle of nowhere? This isn't Rumrunner's where it's supposed to be a secret.

• - Putting the door right behind Widow Threadbarren's shop would make a lot more sense, since it'd be a cellar for her shop.

- It's a lot closer to the dock. Less time to walk there!

- Not as close to enemies. Yeah, Rage Ghost is nearby, but those Fire Bats are RIGHT next to the door.


Detractions:

- Nostalgia of the placement.

• If you guys really like it where it is because of fond memories, or you're just used to it and don't wanna be confused, it can stay where it is. Just tell me in this thread, and I won't move it. Keeping y'all happy is more important than sating my inner perfectionist.

- Folks not in the know won't know where to look now that it's moved.

- Possible solution: I find a way for the cave rectangle to show up on the map for the cellar, even though it's not a "tunnel" like a normal cave entrance.


So, what do y'all think? Should we move Foulberto's Cave, or should it stay where it is? Let me know!

~ Mr. Dev

P.S.

You may see me poke fun at Disney/the POTCO devs a lot, but it's all in good fun. I and TLOPO don't hate them. In fact, we have a lot of respect for them. A good bunch of the devs truly cared for this game. I can say that with certainty (without naming names).

Any sassy remark I or any other staff member makes is simply because a lot of POTCO's code is... simply not well thought out. And that's likely caused by a revolving door of interns.

A million cooks in the kitchen, and most of them have no experience, and that's OKAY!

 

[Shamus The Brute]

With whatever decision is made, I think it is commendable that the community's opinion is asked. Great job (and best of luck towards finding the right solution).

 

[Baabaa Booey]

You want to move the cave of souls but yet they cant fix the queen anne's revenge to work in the game. This makes no sense to me lets do this and that and the other but hey why worry about fixing things that don't work.

 

[Misha]

You want to move the cave of souls but yet they cant fix the queen anne's revenge to work in the game. This makes no sense to me lets do this and that and the other but hey why worry about fixing things that don't work.

It is being worked on, I promise you. However, let's stay on topic toward the current question.

 

[The Crew]

You want to move the cave of souls but yet they cant fix the queen anne's revenge to work in the game. This makes no sense to me lets do this and that and the other but hey why worry about fixing things that don't work.

I understand your frustration, I really do. But put this into perspective:

I, myself (Mr. Dev) am not all that experienced with Python, the programming language that makes up essentially all of the game. I'm striving to learn every day, but most of the time, my experience limits me to a) minor bugfixes, b) new content that expands upon something that's already there, and c) Minor qualify of life changes, like this one.

What I'm doing in no way detracts from the 3+ other devs who are working on actual serious, game-hindering bugs. They're the heroes. They're working on the QAR and other stuff.

Rather than sit on my hands and wait for all the old content to be pristine, I prefer to keep myself active (and learning) by doing stuff like this, and other complex things as well. Plus, as I said in the initial post, this change would take less than 5 minutes. I've likely spent more time making this thread than I would actually spend making the change in-game.

but hey why worry about fixing things that don't work.

I have something to ask of you. Please, please try to be a bit nicer about this in the future? We're happy to take criticism and have in the past. The Copperhead tweaks and SvS are such examples (and we're working on it still!).

But sarcastic or heated responses don't do any good. I'm not here to scold you, I'm really not. And this is more about others that have expressed their feelings in a lot more angry, rude, and harmful ways.

All I'm saying is we are people too. We're here working on this game all the way through the night, without pay, because we love POTCO. We genuinely care about this game. It's like a second home to us after all the work we've put in.

That, and we're amateurs. We try to be as professional as possible, but bugs will arise. We'll make public relations flubs. It happens, and we learn from it.

Just give us a little bit of patience and try to voice your criticisms assuming we are acting under good faith. Because we truly do want the same thing as you - a fun, safe, bug-free, feature-complete game, as close to Disney-run as possible.

 

[Devin Andromeda]

Aye I think it’s a good idea, I miss looting at Foulberto Smasho might have to get back at

 

[John Macbatten]

Customer support person #42333 LIED!

Relax with the call outs Mr. Dev

 

[ElizaCreststeel]

I might point out that The Cave of Souls is actually closer to the Mines that the proposed place would be. Disney put him there so you didn't have to go all the way into the mines or have to have the quest parts completed to access it.

Agreed that the cellar part makes no sense though. A mine entrance would make more sense.

 

[Bart Gunshot]

I wouldn't be opposed to moving it, I agree that the placement of The Cave Of Lost Souls is really odd from all perspectives. From a pure gameplay and convenience sake its quite the run to the other side of the island. Although that side of the island is never used besides for the initial quest (or legitimate) entrance to El Patron's Mines so maybe thats a reason to keep it where it is.

There is this blocked off entrance near the docks on Raven's but it seems to just be a blocked entrance leading to the South Idol (Notice the characteristic cave entrance steps). Maybe after finishing the quest this could become a legitimate entrance instead of wall glitching, just an idea, harder to implement the tech of disabling/enabling objects based on quest progression I'm sure. But thats off topic.

Perhaps if not moving it, just adding some scenery around the entrance would help though. Perhaps a shack or a rail line, some crates. Something more than just a cellar door in the middle of nowhere. I mean the placement of the rail lines over by the elevator doesn't really make sense either as its no where near the actual mines, and there are no other rails anywhere else on the island. I believe this was more as feedback to let the player they are getting closer to the mines in the quest, but from a logical perspective its questionable.

I might point out that The Cave of Souls is actually closer to the Mines that the proposed place would be. Disney put him there so you didn't have to go all the way into the mines or have to have the quest parts completed to access it.

Agreed that the cellar part makes no sense though. A mine entrance would make more sense.

I think you may be thinking of the elevator, the mines themselves (both entrance and exit) are on the south side of the island.

 

[Roger-Daniel]

Maybe after finishing the quest this could become a legitimate entrance instead of wall glitching, just an idea, harder to implement the tech of disabling/enabling objects based on quest progression I'm sure. But thats off topic.

Hopefully this is relevant to that. I'd love to have a shorter walk to the mines without having to swim.

Anyway, I'm fine with the cave of lost souls being re-positioned. The walk can be annoyingly long lol. I hope this means that foulberto will eventually be receiving some improvements in the future

 

[Boots/Darkness]

Sounds like a good idea too me..

 

[The Crew]

There is this blocked off entrance near the docks on Raven's but it seems to just be a blocked entrance leading to the South Idol (Notice the characteristic cave entrance steps). Maybe after finishing the quest this could become a legitimate entrance instead of wall glitching, just an idea, harder to implement the tech of disabling/enabling objects based on quest progression I'm sure. But thats off topic.

I really like this idea, and @Truecrash was just working on adding unlockable tunnels dependent on quests just the other night. I can't promise that we'd actually go through with this idea, since adding a third tunnel connector to caves has historically been an absolute PAIN.

For reference, we spent more time getting the tunnel from Cursed Caverns to Forsaken Shallows functional than we actually did working on the new area itself.

There's also the consideration that the South Idol is a popular looting corner with enemies RIGHT there. The flow of traffic from that tunnel if it were to be opened doesn't really lend itself to keeping South Idol relevant.

Another option that might be less of a hassle (we'll see...) is the following:

I'm pretty sure some of the wall surrounding El Patron's Ship is composed of placed rock props independent from the actual island model. If I set those to disappear after completing the RC quest, players could swim around from the RC docks into El Patron's grotto and enter the mines from there.

But that too would be a bit of a mini project. Maybe down the road?

Perhaps if not moving it, just adding some scenery around the entrance would help though. Perhaps a shack or a rail line, some crates. Something more than just a cellar door in the middle of nowhere. I mean the placement of the rail lines over by the elevator doesn't really make sense either as its no where near the actual mines, and there are no other rails anywhere else on the island. I believe this was more as feedback to let the player they are getting closer to the mines in the quest, but from a logical perspective its questionable.

That's not a bad idea. But it doesn't make much sense why they'd be mining from that cellar, which was clearly not intended to be a part of the mines, as the walls were broken open to access the cave.

What I might do to rectify this little lore inconsistency is add little tracks coming out of holes in the rock, much like in the recent Hollowed Woods revamp.

"And now for something completely different."

So, while working on a completely unrelated bugfix, I discovered that Disney had a first attempt at the Cave of Lost Souls entrance that they scrapped. It was supposed to be an actual above-ground building interior. The props were placed, but whatever model they had planned to use was deleted from the code.

Turns out, our former dev, when making The Watcher's Hovel, found this interior data and pasted it into a pre-existing Spanish building interior. So The Watcher's Hovel is essentially the original entrance to the Cave of Lost Souls. TIL.

I suspect that they were going to take the model we used for The Watcher's Hovel and have a massive hole in the ground (since there are no props placed in the middle of the room) that would have led to the cave.

The (only) level designer that worked on POTCO at the time left the team in early 2011, and my guess is, before his departure, he rushed to finish up Foulberto's cave, thus placing it in the odd spot we know today.

Anyway, that was a bit of a diversion. I'll wait a few more weeks or so before implementing this change, just to let a few more folks chime in with their opinions.

~ Mr. Dev

 

[Eric Sailcutter]

Please don't move the Cave of Lost Souls. It's an original part of the game and should not be changed for no reason other than someone never liked it. If you want to change something original there should be a reason such as: Disney had intended but never got around to it, a bug, or some actual functional issue. What the developers do with new content is their business but original content that is not original seems against the entire concept of tlopo as a recreation of potco.

 

[The Crew]

Please don't move the Cave of Lost Souls. It's an original part of the game and should not be changed for now reason other than someone never liked it. If you want to change something original there should be a reason such as: Disney had intended but never got around to it, a bug, or some actual functional issue. What the developers do with new content is their business but original content that is not original seems against the entire concept of tlopo as a recreation of potco.

Thank you for your feedback! Your strong response has definitely been heard. We're probably going to put a poll out on social media about this change to get a wider pool of responses.

I totally see where you're coming from, and will take your opinions into consideration.


Side note, if any of you that have responded in this thread are up for it, please feel free to share a link to this post in your respective guild/TLOPO social Discords so it gets more visibility. The more feedback we have on this, the better.

 

[Solomon Helmfitte]

I really like this idea, and @Truecrash was just working on adding unlockable tunnels dependent on quests just the other night. I can't promise that we'd actually go through with this idea, since adding a third tunnel connector to caves has historically been an absolute PAIN.

For reference, we spent more time getting the tunnel from Cursed Caverns to Forsaken Shallows functional than we actually did working on the new area itself.

There's also the consideration that the South Idol is a popular looting corner with enemies RIGHT there. The flow of traffic from that tunnel if it were to be opened doesn't really lend itself to keeping South Idol relevant.

Another option that might be less of a hassle (we'll see...) is the following:

I'm pretty sure some of the wall surrounding El Patron's Ship is composed of placed rock props independent from the actual island model. If I set those to disappear after completing the RC quest, players could swim around from the RC docks into El Patron's grotto and enter the mines from there.

But that too would be a bit of a mini project. Maybe down the road?



That's not a bad idea. But it doesn't make much sense why they'd be mining from that cellar, which was clearly not intended to be a part of the mines, as the walls were broken open to access the cave.

What I might do to rectify this little lore inconsistency is add little tracks coming out of holes in the rock, much like in the recent Hollowed Woods revamp.

"And now for something completely different."

So, while working on a completely unrelated bugfix, I discovered that Disney had a first attempt at the Cave of Lost Souls entrance that they scrapped. It was supposed to be an actual above-ground building interior. The props were placed, but whatever model they had planned to use was deleted from the code.

Turns out, our former dev, when making The Watcher's Hovel, found this interior data and pasted it into a pre-existing Spanish building interior. So The Watcher's Hovel is essentially the original entrance to the Cave of Lost Souls. TIL.

I suspect that they were going to take the model we used for The Watcher's Hovel and have a massive hole in the ground (since there are no props placed in the middle of the room) that would have led to the cave.

The (only) level designer that worked on POTCO at the time left the team in early 2011, and my guess is, before his departure, he rushed to finish up Foulberto's cave, thus placing it in the odd spot we know today.

Anyway, that was a bit of a diversion. I'll wait a few more weeks or so before implementing this change, just to let a few more folks chime in with their opinions.

~ Mr. Dev

This is probably one of the most amazing places I stumbled across in the original POTCO, not knowing it was there. This and The Rum Cellar on Rum Runners are very memorable and unique "hidden" locations... back when everyone didn't know where everything was, I hope some new players still play this game as a mysterious unknown in terms of "what to next"... without Wiki or anything.

I appreciated the new hidden shop on Tortuga and all the other aspects in this same tradition that have been added... please add More! Let's keep doing this and don't tell anyone... let us stumble across them like before : ) I want to find many more hidden entrances in the most unexpected locations!

Please don't do anything to The Cave, maybe mix up the drops, let Foul drop Thunderspine more than anyone else, add some new drops for him, add some new ghosts but don't change the original... bring back the First Islands, Rain & Thunder and being able to see Ships Sailing by when on shore and a Red Ghost that chases like before ... things that add to the amazing game base we already have.

(Could Un - Nerf our Copper Heads... by popular opininon also : ) )

Anyway keep up the amazing work... we're all here right by you and I guess it's obvious we're not going anywhere : )

Yers Solomon

PS. Mr Dev... I just read the (your) initial explanation, after my emotional response and it makes a lot of sense but this game is more than sense. I think the location that you found is logical and awesome and we should add something there but lets also add "illogical" trap doors everywhere, even rocks that open is what I say : ) Thanks to all of you again... tricky stuff (Convenience and speed of access was never an argument in the initial design and some good things take time to get to or are worth waiting for as someone once said)

 

[Redraven]

I am extremely grateful and appreciative to the development team for remaking this game. The development team has really put their stamp on the game with new content, weapons and awesome clothing and I thank you for that. Now with that being said, The best thing you could do to The Caves of the Lost Souls is leave it alone. Instead maybe your efforts would be best used to FIX Foulberto Smasho - it breaks my heart to see him so feeble, Then maybe your efforts could be used to give Smasho his own Legendary drop - you know, as well as I, Smasho is the one boss that deserves and awesome drop. Ravens Cove is my favorite Island, Smasho has always been my Favorite boss, Rage Ghosts used to be fun to mess with and they need to be again. Put your stamp on the island by fixing the broken stuff. Thank you!!

 

[Eric Sailcutter]

I am extremely grateful and appreciative to the development team for remaking this game. The development team has really put their stamp on the game with new content, weapons and awesome clothing and I thank you for that. Now with that being said, The best thing you could do to The Caves of the Lost Souls is leave it alone. Instead maybe your efforts would be best used to FIX Foulberto Smasho - it breaks my heart to see him so feeble, Then maybe your efforts could be used to give Smasho his own Legendary drop - you know, as well as I, Smasho is the one boss that deserves and awesome drop. Ravens Cove is my favorite Island, Smasho has always been my Favorite boss, Rage Ghosts used to be fun to mess with and they need to be again. Put your stamp on the island by fixing the broken stuff. Thank you!!

I really like the idea of giving Foulberto a unique set of throwing knives, something better than SF that can only be gotten from him.

 

[Kate Daggersharp]

Not going to lie, I was pretty excited to see this thread because I've been all for revamping Mr. Smasho. I LOVE fighting him and I would love to see a new legendary that is exclusive to him, rather than Silver Freeze that you can get basically anywhere. For how powerful he is, he deserves something LEGIT. I support moving him closer and I hope this means my favorite boss is going to get some tweaks

 

[The Crew]

I am extremely grateful and appreciative to the development team for remaking this game. The development team has really put their stamp on the game with new content, weapons and awesome clothing and I thank you for that. Now with that being said, The best thing you could do to The Caves of the Lost Souls is leave it alone. Instead maybe your efforts would be best used to FIX Foulberto Smasho - it breaks my heart to see him so feeble, Then maybe your efforts could be used to give Smasho his own Legendary drop - you know, as well as I, Smasho is the one boss that deserves and awesome drop. Ravens Cove is my favorite Island, Smasho has always been my Favorite boss, Rage Ghosts used to be fun to mess with and they need to be again. Put your stamp on the island by fixing the broken stuff. Thank you!!

I agree that Foul is a bit too weak right now. I'll investigate buffing him a bit. And I'll take your other suggestions into account as well.

I appreciated the new hidden shop on Tortuga and all the other aspects in this same tradition that have been added... please add More! Let's keep doing this and don't tell anyone... let us stumble across them like before : ) I want to find many more hidden entrances in the most unexpected locations!

I have some ideas.

Please don't do anything to The Cave, maybe mix up the drops, let Foul drop Thunderspine more than anyone else, add some new drops for him, add some new ghosts but don't change the original... bring back the First Islands, Rain & Thunder and being able to see Ships Sailing by when on shore and a Red Ghost that chases like before ... things that add to the amazing game base we already have.

Seems you and Redraven have a similar idea with the drops. While I can definitively say we won't be adding any pre-existing Cursed Blades to Foul's drop, I'll look into giving him something special. Not exactly sure what that'd be, but I'm sure we can figure something out.

bring back the First Islands, Rain & Thunder and being able to see Ships Sailing by when on shore and a Red Ghost that chases like before ... things that add to the amazing game base we already have.

Old Islands: https://tlopo.com/news/post/237/

Rage Ghost Movement: This is an issue with all enemies at the moment. AI path movement/chasing is something that we're working on. It's one of the more complex parts of the game.

Rain/Thunder: There's one dev in particular who spearheaded this whole thing. It's a surprisingly involved project, but we do want to bring it back!

(Could Un - Nerf our Copper Heads... by popular opininon also : ) )

I see where you're coming from. I'm not the resident sailing expert, nor am I entirely good with balancing. From what I know, the dev that worked on that has already pretty much settled on its current stats. There are other threads discussing this with her at length.

Not that we're ignoring what you're saying. You're of course free to express your opinions, and if you have something new to bring to that discussion, feel free.

~ Mr. Dev

 

[HoganBaily]

As long as someone brought up secret, unused locations, I've always thought the warehouse and jail on Kingshead should deserve a reason for their existence. Also, glitching through the wall in the secret Trading Outpost on Tortuga has led to the discovery of secret area where a war sloop is docked next to a huge pile of treasure. I'm wondering if this area may be something you are working on for future content