Gathering Looting Information

JAyres93

JAyres93

Swashbuckler
Sorry if this has been discussed here before recently and I missed it.

So, from what people have told me, how looting works is that you need to be at least within 5 levels of any particular weapon in order to be able to loot it, be it a legendary or otherwise. Is this true? Does this apply to your individual weapon training level, or your notoriety level? Is it both?

Can anybody clarify? If you do clarify can you cite some sort of source for verifying the 5 level theory or disproving the theory by somebody who actually codes the game and knows for sure what is or isn't true? If you ARE somebody who works on the game and replies, even better. Through my years playing PotCO, the community, as mostly nice as they were, were always really good at taking something somebody claimed which they had no evidence for, and running with it, spreading the rumor like a weed until before you know it, every other person I met looting near bosses claimed that using certain weapons on a boss lowered loot quality or that deleting your famed would increase your legendary chances until your next legendary drop.

I probably missed some post by a TLoPO developer where they confirmed and denied all the common loot theories like this. If you have that link to a post like that I'd appreciate you sharing it here so I can go over it myself. Frankly considering how many ridiculous sounding looting theories get tossed around in-game, people could benefit from reading a post like that if it exists.

Thanks.
 
It's an induction thing. We can't point to a piece of code to verify that this rule is true, but we know from experience that it is.

Several prominent players have exploited this rule by creating a new pirate whose dagger level is limited to 24, but all other weapon levels are maxed to 30. The aim of this is to make it impossible for that pirate to find Silver Freeze. To date, no such pirate employing this strategy has found Silver Freeze. Similar strategies have been used to dodge legendary swords as well - and they've worked 100% of the time. The odds of this happening by chance are near-impossible.

If you want to test this yourself, you could just make a new pirate and keep track of the level requirements of the weapons you find as you level up your sword. I will bet you whatever amount of money you choose that you'll never find a sword with a requirement greater than five levels beyond your current sword level.

It's just positive verification. If X is true, we expect to observe Y phenomena when Z conditions are satisfied. We observe Y only when Z are satisfied, so either X or a strong correlate of X is true.

We've also found exceptions to this; this condition has no effect on sailing loot. I've found steel cannon ram on a pirate with level 1 cannon.
 
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JAyres93 said:
Sorry if this has been discussed here before recently and I missed it.

So, from what people have told me, how looting works is that you need to be at least within 5 levels of any particular weapon in order to be able to loot it, be it a legendary or otherwise. Is this true? Does this apply to your individual weapon training level, or your notoriety level? Is it both?

Can anybody clarify? If you do clarify can you cite some sort of source for verifying the 5 level theory or disproving the theory by somebody who actually codes the game and knows for sure what is or isn't true? If you ARE somebody who works on the game and replies, even better. Through my years playing PotCO, the community, as mostly nice as they were, were always really good at taking something somebody claimed which they had no evidence for, and running with it, spreading the rumor like a weed until before you know it, every other person I met looting near bosses claimed that using certain weapons on a boss lowered loot quality or that deleting your famed would increase your legendary chances until your next legendary drop.

I probably missed some post by a TLoPO developer where they confirmed and denied all the common loot theories like this. If you have that link to a post like that I'd appreciate you sharing it here so I can go over it myself. Frankly considering how many ridiculous sounding looting theories get tossed around in-game, people could benefit from reading a post like that if it exists.

Thanks.
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As you stated, everything is a theory and should be taken with a grain of sea salt. None of the theories out there have ever been verified or debunked by a coder or dev staff of tlopo. Probably doing so would give more ammo to an already pretty infiltrated game as it is. And developers probably wouldn't put themselves in a position of stating the amount or lack of cheating in tlopo.
 
squintz said:
As you stated, everything is a theory and should be taken with a grain of sea salt. None of the theories out there have ever been verified or debunked by a coder or dev staff of tlopo. Probably doing so would give more ammo to an already pretty infiltrated game as it is. And developers probably wouldn't put themselves in a position of stating the amount or lack of cheating in tlopo.
Click to expand...

I believe what Beggar said is true, and based on my own personal testing I've done recently, it simply has to be true. The numbers don't lie. My sword has been level 2 all the way up to level 21 notoriety, and I've never received a sword higher than level 7 out of all the swords I have looted. This fact always made me suspect the 5 level condition, but I just never cared enough to connect the dots. Meanwhile recently I've looted many of the most powerful and high level famed firearms, and wouldn't you know it, my shooting has been very high level for quite some time, and just yesterday I even managed to raise shooting to level 29. I wasn't paying attention up until recently when I made this post, and thought nothing of any of this, but now that I made this thread and theory tested by really starting to pay attention to the level requirements and frequency of guns compared to swords I'm getting, there's a point where one has to let common sense take the wheel instead of relying on data stored deep in some file somewhere. I consider this confirmed based on testimony here, other peoples' experience, and my own recent tests.

But my main issue here just comes with a lack of communication of basic looting factors here. The issue I take is morality based. I'm not concerned with my own ability to loot powerful items. If I was that selfish I would not reply here after I had confirmed the theory based on the tests I did in game. We have countless people wasting hours of time looting at bosses for a weapon they can't get because they're not high enough level with that weapon to loot it. Consider making this important information public as giving people ammo to exploit looting if you wish, but I think it is much worse to not have a detailed explanation of basic looting mechanics available in-game for players so that they do not waste time trying to loot a level 30 pistol at Remington which isn't available to them to loot because they're level 15 shooting.

I might post about this in the suggestions forum, because I feel in my heart this needs to be changed. It is wrong to waste peoples' precious time and get their hopes up about looting something they want specifically just because there's a lack of good information in-game or from what I can tell nearly anywhere. I saw two people yesterday at Remington trying to find Mercer's Pistol and wasn't able to convince either of them they were wasting their time, despite the fact I know the 5 level rule for weapons has got to be correct after so much testing. That upset me, but what upsets me more is how many other people I haven't been able to tell that might believe me so as to not waste their time.
 
It is as @Beggar says. It is weapons skill level and not notoriety that is important here. I have a friend who only leveled sword, sailing, and cannon on one of his alts and he was able to quickly and easily get almost every single famed sword in the game. It doesn't work quite as well for legendaries since most are swords anyway and many that aren't are single source.

One thing I've wondered about this but never actually tested is: can one retrain a skill, say sword, and not apply the points and thereby avoid getting the Lost Sword or to put it another way is it the skill points you've applied or is it the skill points you earned???
 
Eric Sailcutter said:
It is as @Beggar says. It is weapons skill level and not notoriety that is important here. I have a friend who only leveled sword, sailing, and cannon on one of his alts and he was able to quickly and easily get almost every single famed sword in the game. It doesn't work quite as well for legendaries since most are swords anyway and many that aren't are single source.

One thing I've wondered about this but never actually tested is: can one retrain a skill, say sword, and not apply the points and thereby avoid getting the Lost Sword or to put it another way is it the skill points you've applied or is it the skill points you earned???
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If you max an item and everything in your pirate profile accounts for this and then you retrain, is something still acknowledging the previous maxed status. And how can one be sure you clear everything when retraining. Because when you max an item you also gain some rep I believe, and when re-training, I don't see any changes in rep or other indicators.
Again, there's no way to be sure. It's a theory with a game that changes bi-weekly all over the place.
 
JAyres93 said:
I believe what Beggar said is true, and based on my own personal testing I've done recently, it simply has to be true. The numbers don't lie. My sword has been level 2 all the way up to level 21 notoriety, and I've never received a sword higher than level 7 out of all the swords I have looted. This fact always made me suspect the 5 level condition, but I just never cared enough to connect the dots. Meanwhile recently I've looted many of the most powerful and high level famed firearms, and wouldn't you know it, my shooting has been very high level for quite some time, and just yesterday I even managed to raise shooting to level 29. I wasn't paying attention up until recently when I made this post, and thought nothing of any of this, but now that I made this thread and theory tested by really starting to pay attention to the level requirements and frequency of guns compared to swords I'm getting, there's a point where one has to let common sense take the wheel instead of relying on data stored deep in some file somewhere. I consider this confirmed based on testimony here, other peoples' experience, and my own recent tests.

But my main issue here just comes with a lack of communication of basic looting factors here. The issue I take is morality based. I'm not concerned with my own ability to loot powerful items. If I was that selfish I would not reply here after I had confirmed the theory based on the tests I did in game. We have countless people wasting hours of time looting at bosses for a weapon they can't get because they're not high enough level with that weapon to loot it. Consider making this important information public as giving people ammo to exploit looting if you wish, but I think it is much worse to not have a detailed explanation of basic looting mechanics available in-game for players so that they do not waste time trying to loot a level 30 pistol at Remington which isn't available to them to loot because they're level 15 shooting.

I might post about this in the suggestions forum, because I feel in my heart this needs to be changed. It is wrong to waste peoples' precious time and get their hopes up about looting something they want specifically just because there's a lack of good information in-game or from what I can tell nearly anywhere. I saw two people yesterday at Remington trying to find Mercer's Pistol and wasn't able to convince either of them they were wasting their time, despite the fact I know the 5 level rule for weapons has got to be correct after so much testing. That upset me, but what upsets me more is how many other people I haven't been able to tell that might believe me so as to not waste their time.
Click to expand...
I have edited my post because it was meant as a response to the content and not the author.
It should be noted that just because one believes some results, it doesn't necessarily make it true for the game itself. The level concept is a theory and like any other theory is not a fact. Do I have to believe in God because a person may say they're a born again Christian? There are no facts here to support any theories.
 
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squintz said:
I have edited my post because it was meant as a response to the content and not the author.
It should be noted that just because one believes some results, it doesn't necessarily make it true for the game itself. The level concept is a theory and like any other theory is not a fact. Do I have to believe in God because a person may say they're a born again Christian? There are no facts here to support any theories.
Click to expand...
Beggar's theory is correct though..
 
JAyres93 said:
I believe what Beggar said is true, and based on my own personal testing I've done recently, it simply has to be true. The numbers don't lie. My sword has been level 2 all the way up to level 21 notoriety, and I've never received a sword higher than level 7 out of all the swords I have looted. This fact always made me suspect the 5 level condition, but I just never cared enough to connect the dots. Meanwhile recently I've looted many of the most powerful and high level famed firearms, and wouldn't you know it, my shooting has been very high level for quite some time, and just yesterday I even managed to raise shooting to level 29. I wasn't paying attention up until recently when I made this post, and thought nothing of any of this, but now that I made this thread and theory tested by really starting to pay attention to the level requirements and frequency of guns compared to swords I'm getting, there's a point where one has to let common sense take the wheel instead of relying on data stored deep in some file somewhere. I consider this confirmed based on testimony here, other peoples' experience, and my own recent tests.

But my main issue here just comes with a lack of communication of basic looting factors here. The issue I take is morality based. I'm not concerned with my own ability to loot powerful items. If I was that selfish I would not reply here after I had confirmed the theory based on the tests I did in game. We have countless people wasting hours of time looting at bosses for a weapon they can't get because they're not high enough level with that weapon to loot it. Consider making this important information public as giving people ammo to exploit looting if you wish, but I think it is much worse to not have a detailed explanation of basic looting mechanics available in-game for players so that they do not waste time trying to loot a level 30 pistol at Remington which isn't available to them to loot because they're level 15 shooting.

I might post about this in the suggestions forum, because I feel in my heart this needs to be changed. It is wrong to waste peoples' precious time and get their hopes up about looting something they want specifically just because there's a lack of good information in-game or from what I can tell nearly anywhere. I saw two people yesterday at Remington trying to find Mercer's Pistol and wasn't able to convince either of them they were wasting their time, despite the fact I know the 5 level rule for weapons has got to be correct after so much testing. That upset me, but what upsets me more is how many other people I haven't been able to tell that might believe me so as to not waste their time.
Click to expand...

I really respect what you've said there. I hadn't really known about that rule, but I did kinda suspect that you only get low level items if yer skill is low level. As I'm leveling Doll just yesterday I noticed Doll drops getting slightly better as I leveled the skill. Wasn't the first time I noticed it either, but I guess what I'm saying is that I never truly realized exactly how much you were restricted in drop quality. Now I know, and I hope some others know too. Good stuff here.
 
squintz said:
I have edited my post because it was meant as a response to the content and not the author.
It should be noted that just because one believes some results, it doesn't necessarily make it true for the game itself. The level concept is a theory and like any other theory is not a fact. Do I have to believe in God because a person may say they're a born again Christian? There are no facts here to support any theories.
Click to expand...
I'm going to assume you've made it past grade school and are familiar with the scientific method? I hear its the cat's pajamas in grade schools these days, all the second graders are learning about it. It starts off with a question and hypothesis and then experimentation and then blah blah blah
Anyway, thats what our historically dedicated and knowledgeable potco and tlopo forefathers painstakingly did to learn more about these games. It is written in the sacred texts.

We must remember that things in this game can be proven through testing, and im not talking about the tlopo flat earth theory equivalent where you dont take items out of a chest to get a better chest while looting, i'm talking about the cell theory equivalent where it has been tested, observed, proven and widely accepted by researchers and is in our children's textbooks, but its still got the word theory slapped on the end of it.
 
JackScurvyGull said:
I'm going to assume you've made it past grade school and are familiar with the scientific method? I hear its the cat's pajamas in grade schools these days, all the second graders are learning about it. It starts off with a question and hypothesis and then experimentation and then blah blah blah
Anyway, thats what our historically dedicated and knowledgeable potco and tlopo forefathers painstakingly did to learn more about these games. It is written in the sacred texts.

We must remember that things in this game can be proven through testing, and im not talking about the tlopo flat earth theory equivalent where you dont take items out of a chest to get a better chest while looting, i'm talking about the cell theory equivalent where it has been tested, observed, proven and widely accepted by researchers and is in our children's textbooks, but its still got the word theory slapped on the end of it.
Click to expand...
If something in science is somehow proved, it is no longer theory. But the nature of Science is discovery and theory is dynamic. Thus Scientists will never say anything is fact for they are never satisfied. That's what makes them Scientists.
A theory is a idea, a concept that may never be closed. Theories can be correct until shown to be incorrect. Some say the speed of light is the fastest we can go. That may not be true any more.
 
squintz said:
If something in science is somehow proved, it is no longer theory. But the nature of Science is discovery and theory is dynamic. Thus Scientists will never say anything is fact for they are never satisfied. That's what makes them Scientists.
A theory is a idea, a concept that may never be closed. Theories can be correct until shown to be incorrect. Some say the speed of light is the fastest we can go. That may not be true any more.
Click to expand...
Great, you understood what I said :winner:
 
Ok... it's just a simple drop trick here guys. xD I mean we've all seen it in the game haven't we? You guys seem to be taking what's clearly true and turning it into an example for some kinda real life... "scientific theory thesis"... I mean is it REALLY that hard to just stick to TLOPO stuff here? You HAD a point with rumors, THEN you lost me when you went on rambling about "scientists who never are truly satisfied by a theory being claimed as fact" or whatever. xD I'm sorry but dial it back brainiacs and stick to the subject eh? You've proven how smart you all are, calm down. lol
 
Walker7311 said:
Ok... it's just a simple drop trick here guys. xD I mean we've all seen it in the game haven't we? You guys seem to be taking what's clearly true and turning it into an example for some kinda real life... "scientific theory thesis"... I mean is it REALLY that hard to just stick to TLOPO stuff here? You HAD a point with rumors, THEN you lost me when you went on rambling about "scientists who never are truly satisfied by a theory being claimed as fact" or whatever. xD I'm sorry but dial it back brainiacs and stick to the subject eh? You've proven how smart you all are, calm down. lol
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Some people just have trouble accepting information as fact, especially when it comes from someone they don't like. Idk what squintz was going on about exactly, but you gotta think of real world examples sometimes.
Anyway yeah, I agree with OP, we should try and communicate these kinds of tips and tricks of this game more to the unknowing general public
 
squintz said:
If you max an item and everything in your pirate profile accounts for this and then you retrain, is something still acknowledging the previous maxed status. And how can one be sure you clear everything when retraining. Because when you max an item you also gain some rep I believe, and when re-training, I don't see any changes in rep or other indicators.
Again, there's no way to be sure. It's a theory with a game that changes bi-weekly all over the place.
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Yes, it is more a question than a theory even for me. I suspect that it's the points you've earned and not the points you've applied but I've never tested it and I've never heard of anyone else testing it, so, since I've thought about it a few times I thought I'd through it out here and see if anyone else has thought about it.
 
Walker7311 said:
Ok... it's just a simple drop trick here guys. xD I mean we've all seen it in the game haven't we? You guys seem to be taking what's clearly true and turning it into an example for some kinda real life... "scientific theory thesis"... I mean is it REALLY that hard to just stick to TLOPO stuff here? You HAD a point with rumors, THEN you lost me when you went on rambling about "scientists who never are truly satisfied by a theory being claimed as fact" or whatever. xD I'm sorry but dial it back brainiacs and stick to the subject eh? You've proven how smart you all are, calm down. lol
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It's tips and tricks. If you want to believe in theories and guesstimates as facts by so called tlopo game experts, good on you.
But don't go around telling people unproven theories are fact. That is just wrong. Keep it real. I guess about as real as a video game.
I don't appreaciate your humor in that regard either. And as a reminder, I'm not the one that started the scientific angle. Again, people come on a thread and attack the authors, not the content.
 
Beggar said:
It's an induction thing. We can't point to a piece of code to verify that this rule is true, but we know from experience that it is.

Several prominent players have exploited this rule by creating a new pirate whose dagger level is limited to 24, but all other weapon levels are maxed to 30. The aim of this is to make it impossible for that pirate to find Silver Freeze. To date, no such pirate employing this strategy has found Silver Freeze. Similar strategies have been used to dodge legendary swords as well - and they've worked 100% of the time. The odds of this happening by chance are near-impossible.
Click to expand...

If you want to test this yourself, you could just make a new pirate and keep track of the level requirements of the weapons you find as you level up your sword. I will bet you whatever amount of money you choose that you'll never find a sword with a requirement greater than five levels beyond your current sword level.

It's just positive verification. If X is true, we expect to observe Y phenomena when Z conditions are satisfied. We observe Y only when Z are satisfied, so either X or a strong correlate of X is true.

We've also found exceptions to this; this condition has no effect on sailing loot. I've found steel cannon ram on a pirate with level 1 cannon.
Click to expand...
What is the meaning when you wrote 'requirements'. Did you mean weapon 'stats'?
And the comment 'to date, no such pirate employing this strategy has found silver freeze, etc etc' can not be substantiated in any way, so even that supposed factoid isn't reliable.
Sorry.
 
squintz said:
What is the meaning when you wrote 'requirements'. Did you mean weapon 'stats'?
And the comment 'to date, no such pirate employing this strategy has found silver freeze, etc etc' can not be substantiated in any way, so even that supposed factoid isn't reliable.
Sorry.
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I completely agree. We can't be sure if Palifico is the only enemy to drop the lost blade of leviathan. There might be undocumented proof of someone getting it somewhere else, we may never know for sure.
 
JackScurvyGull said:
I completely agree. We can't be sure if Palifico is the only enemy to drop the lost blade of leviathan. There might be undocumented proof of someone getting it somewhere else, we may never know for sure.
Click to expand...
I sense a hint of sarcasm in your prose. Obviously, that one is a fact as documented by the developers themselves.
No developers or tlopo staff have documented, commented or recognized in support on any of those other theories or strategies. Ever.
Which can lead one to the conclusion that none of the strategies or theories can not be proven true or false without a developers acceptance or admittance of such.

So there's that.
 
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