Weapons Legendaries are too hard to get.

Should Legendaries be easier to get?


  • Total voters
    147
I don't have any of the cursed legendaries, but I disagree with this. I honestly have a ton of hours spent in this game, starting from a couple years back, and I haven't gotten a single cursed legendary since. They maintain their exclusivity for a reason.

I accept the fact that my luck sucks. But it's not stopping me from looting. Just because people are having an issue, doesn't mean it should be made easier to attain. Especially when you're playing a loot based game. You're ruining the loot economy by making it easier.
I agree legendary doesn't need to be easier. However, there is no loot economy to ruin. We can't trade or sell legendary to each other for gain, thus legendary loot economy does not exist. 'Loot economy' is a misnomer. Loot attainment? Loot inventory or loot accomplishments, bragging rights?
Legendary loot anything else, but not an economy, that confuses and unjustly legitimizes looters ego.
 
I agree legendary doesn't need to be easier. However, there is no loot economy to ruin. We can't trade or sell legendary to each other for gain, thus legendary loot economy does not exist. 'Loot economy' is a misnomer. Loot attainment? Loot inventory or loot accomplishments, bragging rights?
Legendary loot anything else, but not an economy, that confuses and unjustly legitimizes looters ego.
Hmm, Loot.. hierarchy?

Anyway the whole “tag line” or “shtick” for pirates online was to become the most “notorious” pirate in the Caribbean. I don’t think there’s anyhing wrong with bragging rights or ego. I think they fit right in. We are pirates after all.
 
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Undoubtedly correct. I like the term "abusive" because that's how Disney made the money. There were 7 legendary, and it took a year to find 1 or 2. So they strategized the amount of time to last until endgame to keep people paying. Now that the game is not dependent on profit coming in from the community, it's disheartening to spend the Disney cost strategy time. It needs to be reduced to a number where they still take time to get and are considered just as rare, just not so rare that it takes a year to find 1 or 2 legends. Perhaps even something similar to the winter update where you collect an absurd amount of material to purchase them from a vendor that appears once a month or week like Xur from destiny. I don't have much else to say on this topic though as there are more bugs and glitches and overall gameplay smoothness i'd like to see fixed in the future by our wonderful hardworking developers. I can't complain too much at all with the outstanding work that's been done.

Thanks,
Looking at this thread again, perhaps instead of having a super high rng, base legendary or quality loot on number of hours, plus certain quests, plus level attainment and other milestones that are true accomplishments through time and effort and brain function. Rewarding players for gaining goals that are meant to be challenging instead of some rng drop. Once a player attains some sort of level of accomplishments, collections or skills in combinations, then perhaps the rng is adjusted to more favorable result. You can still have the randomness, but maybe in a little better chance if you are successful with some sort of goals?
 
One thing missing from this is the people voting no legendaries drop at a fine rate, but log on with multiple pirates at once, have already artificially doubled or tripled their chances. Not saying it's an exploit, or their opinions should be discounted, but it's something to be considered as they get 2 to 3 times as many looks as others. Some do this, and also say the loot rate is fine. It could be fine, but their opinion needs to consider they are getting additional looks.
Absolutely. Multi accounts has not even been considered in this conversation until now. You have a great point, even though I feel the rng is set too high right now, that people who don't want legendary changed at all are more than likely multi accounts and have numerous alts so for them the rng doesn't seem so abusive.
I think the suggestion of the disney monetary angle has merit. If indeed it's still the same in tlopo, why?
I really like this game. I like that I was invited to beta test it. It's not easy balancing testing and having fun for fun sake's too.
 
I think they take that into account as they loot much more than the average player. Perhaps a mildly questionable amount more than the average player I must say.
Well, that's kind of questionable in itself. If one player 'a' is using 4 alts and one main to grind for an hour, and another player 'b' is only using 1 main to grind at the same boss. Can one say that 'a' is getting at least 4 times the chances at the legendary than 'b' in any given hour?
And another statement could be made that 'a' is getting 4 hours of looting per hour of real time? This may be a true statement.
And if that's true, that would appear more than 'mildly questionable' to me.
I believe the original OP has a legitimate concern but I don't think legendary should be a guarantee or made easier for everyone, but instead the rng could be lessened up a bit. I don't think that's asking too much.
 
Well, that's kind of questionable in itself. If one player 'a' is using 4 alts and one main to grind for an hour, and another player 'b' is only using 1 main to grind at the same boss. Can one say that 'a' is getting at least 4 times the chances at the legendary than 'b' in any given hour?
And another statement could be made that 'a' is getting 4 hours of looting per hour of real time? This may be a true statement.
And if that's true, that would appear more than 'mildly questionable' to me.
I believe the original OP has a legitimate concern but I don't think legendary should be a guarantee or made easier for everyone, but instead the rng could be lessened up a bit. I don't think that's asking too much.
I mean, I’ve never done it and don’t agree with people who do. However, if they were to raise the legendary odds the person with 4 pirates will still have 4 times the odds as the other person thereby getting a ridiculous amount of legendaries.

I think people are forgetting, or dont even know that legendaries were much harder to get in potco. People say that looting and legendaries aren’t the whole game but say “what’s the point in playing” when they can’t get one and other people do.

Now I think that’s a legitimate concern.
 
Let's avoid assuming please, because 1) it's not all about loot, many players such as myself play this game just because we like it and the POTC franchise, and 2) are you trying to say if you had managed to loot The Sapphire Curse plus another Legendary in the same amount of time you "worked your bum off" to just loot The Sapphire Curse, you would have quit the game because you had too many undeserved Legendaries? One is fine, but two turns TLOPO into a dead game?
Ah, you've managed to describe what I've struggled to illustrate - you would have quit the game because you had too many undeserved Legendaries? ... the unwritten rule of 'deserved reward for alleged work effort'. That somehow, grinding a certain amount of time should give one a standing above others in their accomplishments of looting. Bragging is fine, but it's not the rule. And I don't think game wide decisions should be decided on minority views and wants. But I've said that before and it's going off topic.

No one deserves legendary. But on the other hand, should we have to grind for over a year for an item because the rng is set so high?
This probably does need to be looked at. The original OP's basic point that the rng is probably unfair as it stands shouldn't be lost.
 
I mean, I’ve never done it and don’t agree with people who do. However, if they were to raise the legendary odds the person with 4 pirates will still have 4 times the odds as the other person thereby getting a ridiculous amount of legendaries.

I think people are forgetting, or dont even know that legendaries were much harder to get in potco. People say that looting and legendaries aren’t the whole game but say “what’s the point in playing” when they can’t get one and other people do.

Now I think that’s a legitimate concern.
"However, if they were to raise the legendary odds the person with 4 pirates will still have 4 times the odds as the other person thereby getting a ridiculous amount of legendaries".
Why is a 'ridiculous amount' of legendaries even an issue. What standard is used to denote ridiculous counts of stuff? Where in potco or tlopo does it say what a certain amount of something is ridiculous? This is a self perceived personal issue and may not be widely shared by the pirate public.

While the multi account part is a true statement, in the bigger picture, what difference does it make that you have 15 legendaries and I have one? It's purely a have and have not emotional issue and not a single thing game issue wise. Your inventory has absolutely no bearing on my inventory, nor is there a game reward or badge for 'most legendaries in a year' contest. Nor is there any kind of player economy. I get being bummed about not having any good weapons. I got mine after almost 2 years in game. With only one single account ever. But my feelings of inadequacies and lack of luck do not impact other peoples game play. Aside from I do believe the rng is too abusive, giving a guaranteed legendary at 50 may not be the solution, unless it's done like the quest thing was. You had a choice to do the quest or not.
 
Let's avoid assuming please, because 1) it's not all about loot, many players such as myself play this game just because we like it and the POTC franchise, and 2) are you trying to say if you had managed to loot The Sapphire Curse plus another Legendary in the same amount of time you "worked your bum off" to just loot The Sapphire Curse, you would have quit the game because you had too many undeserved Legendaries? One is fine, but two turns TLOPO into a dead game?
At the rate I'm going, it should only take me another 13 years to get all legendary. That's fair isn't it?
 
"However, if they were to raise the legendary odds the person with 4 pirates will still have 4 times the odds as the other person thereby getting a ridiculous amount of legendaries".
Why is a 'ridiculous amount' of legendaries even an issue. What standard is used to denote ridiculous counts of stuff? Where in potco or tlopo does it say what a certain amount of something is ridiculous? This is a self perceived personal issue and may not be widely shared by the pirate public.

While the multi account part is a true statement, in the bigger picture, what difference does it make that you have 15 legendaries and I have one? It's purely a have and have not emotional issue and not a single thing game issue wise. Your inventory has absolutely no bearing on my inventory, nor is there a game reward or badge for 'most legendaries in a year' contest. Nor is there any kind of player economy. I get being bummed about not having any good weapons. I got mine after almost 2 years in game. With only one single account ever. But my feelings of inadequacies and lack of luck do not impact other peoples game play. Aside from I do believe the rng is too abusive, giving a guaranteed legendary at 50 may not be the solution, unless it's done like the quest thing was. You had a choice to do the quest or not.
Why didn’t the devs just make silver striker 10 enchanted stones rather than 1200? Why don’t they release HOP and Barbossas Fury as redeem codes? Because the devs still want legendaries to be difficult to find. Whether you’d like to admit it or not but making legendaries easier to find will decrease the longevity of the game if we are just handed legendaries. Again, tlopo’s rng is much better than potco’s was and that’s not even mentioning boss exclusive legendaries and how absolutely BROKEN (literally) sailing is in tlopo
 
Hi. I'm Captain Evaríste Sorrow, and I ORIGINALLY used green font because it stands out better against the background in dark mode for me, but if this is an essay then I should make it as easy to read for others as possible. anyway
I've had thoughts on this subject for a while now, and after reading many threads and wiki comments, the first two pages and this current page of the thread, I feel prepared to make my informal mini-essay ("Tl;dr" whiners will not be spared. I come from a harsh school of debate philosophy where knowing & reading as much info as possible is highly important) at last in this intriguing thread. And no, despite its lengthiness, despite having to post it in multiple parts, I don't want to make it as its own separate post. That would both create a superfluous thread, and separate my response from the very thread it's a part of and replying to. So, without further introduction...


Why I Agree That Legendaries Should Be Dropped A LITTLE More Frequently

So. Let us start out with this: There are many many cases floating around, and undoubtedly more that have not gone on record, of people who have spent anywhere from 6 months to multiple years of playing the game off and on, sailing, fighting enemies, and farming bosses...without ever having received a single legendary drop. Just yesterday while I was farming Palifico I heard stories of the months and year-long periods of time it's been on some people's quests to obtain a legendary. To give my own, I've been at the grind for a full month now, just about every single day I've been spending anywhere from a few hours to half a day doing nothing but farming Darkhart, Remington, Jimmy Legs, Palifico, and The Twins, to get nothing. These alone, before anyone says anything else, constitute the first sign that there is a problem surrounding the drop rate of legendaries.

The second sign is apparent if one starts taking notes about the mechanics and numbers involved in the loot system. Let us begin: How many famed items there are? Hint- A lot. There are 200 famed items. Two hundred. Know how many legendary items you can obtain in the current version of the game? 22. Not even an eighth of the amount of fameds there are. "Alright, so what?" you may ask. I thus continue.
There are three types of loot containers: Pouches, which only contain low-level loot and money, chests, which can contain low, mid, and occasionally higher level loot and money, and skull chests (hereafter referred to as "skulls" because after spending so long writing this section at the same time as others I can feel the carpal tunnel syndrome beginning to set in...), which can contain any kind of loot at all, including very high level loot such as famed weapons and legendaries. The latter subordinate clause is where the devil hides: Skull chests can contain the gud swag, but they also are programmed to potentially drop mid level and garbage loot, as well as spare ammo and playing cards. This creates a whole mess of unwanted trash-destined items that a legendary's chance has to mix with. Couple that with the prior information that there are 200 famed weapons alone (I didn't even bother counting rares and commons because there are undoubtedly hundreds more), means that even if an already-lucky skull rewards you with a high-level selection of loot, there's still a virtual sea of famed weapons that drown out the chance of a legendary weapon has to fight through to be chosen for one of the loot slots.
But the demoralizing deepens. There is technically a fourth type of drop a boss can give: Nothing at all. No container, just a straight-up wasted kill. -There is a compelling sub-argument to be made that this is fine for normal enemies, but for bosses? There should be a guarantee that all bosses will drop some loot container every single time. No more wasted time and effort. Anyway- When you combine that with the first two, the added factor of a boss being able to simply, spitefully drop nothing whatsoever and even further complicate and thicken the brick wall of opposing odds it takes for a legendary to drop, this adds a subtle, yet potent icing on the cake of Sisyphean discouragement.
Seeing this, a second, much larger sign emerges that gives definition to the problem: The loot system incorporates a ridiculously-unncessary number of RNG rolls. By now there's a clearer picture starting to show why a large part of the playerbase still feels like the game's mechanics are unfairly oppressive to their hopes and efforts.

The final piece of the picture is a simple one, but arguably the most important of all: The playerbase themselves. There's a survey on this site that shows the overwhelming majority of players' ages are 18+, meaning that most players are likely in college and/or have a job. There is only so much time in people's weeks to give up for grinding for legendaries. And these players are people who (just about all of them) have returned to Pirates Onilne because of their emotional investment in the game. Emotional investment, much like patience, is something that can be eaten away by the frustrations borne out of a cruel RNG system. Once they smile and laugh through revisiting the jolly days of levels 1 to ~35, the only major rewards left that the game can still give them are within playing the notorious lottery of the legendary weapons grind. That becomes exactly what people spend their time doing.
Now, for the tiny portion of the playerbase that have neither school/college or work to go to, and have the whole week to do whatever they want with, and thus have the time the current RNG demands one to spend at the grind, to them the loot system is probably not their biggest concern with the game. But only a few compared to the total number of players have this luxury. The hundreds of working and/or in-college adults that make up the majority of people playing this game do not have the time to put up with the grind. Most of us have other things to do, most of us just don't have the kind of time to become a World of Warcraft-like professional grinder. As the current loot system stands, it actively punishes you for not having enough time during the week to keep farming each boss.
This is the final and most critical part of the big picture. The particular combination the two factors create make it even more so. People are here primarily from childhood memories and nostalgia, which is a fragile thing. Like any previously-treasured game from one's childhood, returning to it years later with a new outlook on games often reveals many flaws that make it no longer as engaging- however, this does not have to be the case for this game! This is a game now run by its own previous players. We don't have to treat it like a display car, only adding fun, flashy additions but never getting serious under the hood. And like an old sports car, there are some who have the time to get the enjoyment out of a long cruise, but most of us only have the time to go for a few spins. What I'm saying is, yes, there is a fraction of the playerbase that has the time and energy to truly reap the rewards the game can offer, but the vast majority don't have enough time to grind and grind and grind for the satisfaction of finding a legendary.


If you've finally reached this conclusion (but there are still a few important points I have yet to make, this is simply the end of the essay portion), it should be clear that the supposed problem with the RNG drop rates is very real, as is the extremely prolonged frustration shared by so many in the community. This has been a significant complaint that numerous have brought up for years now. Perhaps I should've started this whole thing with that. The fact that it's both commonly brought up and has a long history of being brought up is truly the very first sign that this is a major issue seen of the game by the community. It doesn't have to be something loads of people always complain about. Surely there will forever be a few people who demand their shiny legendaries be handed to them on a silver RNG platter, but there's no reason that so many people should be kept unsatisfied, none that outweigh the counterpoints brought by me and others that is. And as for the poll at the top of the page* that says an enormous number of people are fine with the extreme grinding, I heavily caution people to not look at that as a matter of "Aha! See, 59% of people are okay with it, that means we should do nothing. They win, you lose.", because it's not a government election, it's a survey of people's thoughts. While 59% of people say "Just keep grinding" (plus the ones that give the "no but 1 guaranteed" answer), there's still a whole third of the community according to it who aren't satisfied. There's nothing stopping the game from providing a compromise, a balance to keep the whole community satisfied. And who knows how many people would have said "Yes, I agree it should be higher" but have already given up on the game and aren't here to say? The portion of people who are fine will continue playing the game; those who are unsatisfied will likely eventually be fed up and stop playing the game, so heed that final warning against the perils of misleading statistics. And of course, please heed the collective request this essay has been written in support for. This problem may have a complex nature, but its solutions can be simple, and everyone can rest equally satisfied.

PART ONE OF TWO
 
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PART TWO OF TWO

*Speaking of the poll, I take some issues with it. The question is worded with a suggestive "Should" that mathematicians like to term "biased". Furthermore, the choices could have been made a bit better too, highlighting in particular the lack of anything in between "No, just keep grinding" and "Yes, much easier". If I were personally making it I'd make the question "Do you think the drop rate should be increased; if so, by how much?" and the answers be "No" "Yes, by a little" "Yes, by a fair bit" and "Yes, by a lot". As someone rather invested in this debate, I worry that this poll, sitting right at the top of the page and looking nice and convenient for a first and last impression upon visiting the thread, misrepresents the exact thoughts of those who think change ought to be made.


Miscellaneous points/refutations I want to make because I have a neurological need to grab, heft, and suplex shoddy arguments and weak conjectures:

"Why do you want to take away grinding, man?? Legendaries are SUH-POOOSED to be extreme-errifically hard to get, duhhh!" -> Nobody's taking away the grinding aspect of the game. The concept of ultra special "legendary" drops does mean they should be very rare, but no so rare that it discourages so many people to the point that flocks of players are taking to the forums to beseech the devs to fix it; again, the fact that this is an existing, ongoing complaint shared by so many is itself a big red flag that there really is a problem that needs to be solved.

"But this will give people an insane amount of legendaries! | If people use other pirates that means they're multiplying the amount of legendaries they would have!" -> Um...no. What? Look at the excellent response by squintz. What you call tons may be not enough to others. Maybe there's a madman out there trying to collect them all (I hope they don't die of old age beforehand, sheesh). The number of legendaries a person has is totally unrelated to the debate of whether or not the drop rates for them are too low. People will accumulate legendaries no matter what the rate is. And hey, here's a thought: There are people out there who already do have "an absurd" amount of legendaries. Does that mean the current rate is too high? No, it doesn't mean anything at all. This is a massive non sequitur. Especially the second part of this non-point- yes, congratulations, you have just figured out that players can make more than one character, and that each character can find legendaries. There's nothing special going on here. Those players are not getting 4x the loot, they now have 4 characters that each have the same chance of finding a legendary. There's still only 1 person behind the keyboard who can only use 1 character at a time. Insubstantial thoughts like this really irritate me, sorry.

"What about the longevity of this project? Increasing drop rates could make people stop playing the game and damage the playerbase." -> Not at all, necessarily, it depends on how MUCH you shift the rates. If it's by so much that the scenario I can almost see you imagining where suddenly they're only as rare as famed weapons and by the end of the month half the players will have one, that would definitely ruin the fun for people, sure. People's fears of a legendary weapon-apocalypse (to put it in an intentionally silly way) ruining the game are nonsense unless the drop rates were increased by too much. There is most definitely an area of percentages that won't lead to harm, and can indeed satisfy both those who want better drop rates and those who want difficulty to remain! Don't let worries exaggerate the actual possibilities; We are perfectly confident that the developers know what would be too much higher, of course, that's why we're asking them to do it.

And! Let's neither forget nor discount the unknowable number of people who ALREADY HAVE been discouraged to the point of giving up on the game, already HAVE found the grind too much, who have already left! There are probably people on these forums, even, who have complained about it in the past and are no longer here. Coupled with this knowledge, plus the fact that this has been a known, significant frustration voiced by people for so long now, it is unfortunately safe to say the current drop rates have already put some strain on this community.


Also, to comment specifically on the longevity and continued interest people have in this game...there is an essay on the wiki page for the Lost Blade of Leviathan detailing problems with legendaries, and a huge point that came right out to me and slapped me in the face: There is too much emphasis on obtaining legendary loot in this game, and the playerbase suffers from a severe obsession with it, once you hit level 30-40, grinding for legendaries becomes the only thing you really spend time doing in the game. This really needs to be fixed, and I will make a separate thread altogether about that, but as the author goes on to say, there could at least be things like new things to do in order to provide us to give incentive to actually use the weapons we already have on things other than knocking down the same boss over and over again in the hopes of getting a shiner sword. In particular, great additions would be challenges to honing personal skills and prowess, and to exercise teamwork and co-op skills. But as the game is, when you get to the barebones flow of progression, the game is ENTIRELY structured on and around "Toughen up pirate > repeatedly fight an enemy or two > find cool loot ; Toughen up pirate > repeatedly fight bigger enemy or two > find new and cooler loot : repeat", and once you've devoured all the rares and fameds, the only task left is obtain the legendaries. But currently there's a colossal obstacle in the form of oppressively-low chances of finding them that is preventing many players from reaching that final sense of complete satisfaction.

If longevity, let alone things like growth of the game and playerbase, are to continue, there will have to be changes to the game so that obtaining a few legendaries doesn't leave the player feeling like they have finally done all there is to do in the game (other than level up ships), and that there's no more activities. The grind for rare > famed > legendary loot is a finite process, so when we do reach the top of that mountain, there's nowhere on that peak to play around in the snow, nothing else to engage yourself with the game. Instead of the game being structured around the long, slow climb to the top of the loot pile, there have to be other objectives as well, such as repeatedly-playable missions, scenarios, challenges etc for a pirate or they and their friends to do, maybe involving a high score to beat, a global leaderboard or something. I have to say that I'm extremely glad to see a whole island dedicated to PvP activities soon to come in the next major update, I can see the devs are aware of the plight of boredom players inevitably face, and I hope they put even greater focus on this as time goes on!

Thanks for reading~
 
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