Announcement Moderation Procedures Overhaul (Work in Progress)

Hi Grace! Love your avatar. I get it and agree with you.

However, I'm not saying curse words should be allowed. I'm totally fine with an actual curse word coming out as Arrrr.

It's the harmless other things, jokes, and phrases. I recently found out the word grass (no, really, just grass, no other nickname) isn't allowed, when referencing alcohol in the game is totally A Okay.

I just think there could be a better way to deal with this possible scenario. A warning before playing the game, stating it's rated PG13. Or a special two chat system, one for children and one for adults. The over-protective mom would see this rating and take note. She would also make him play in the kids chat. You can't really get mad at a game that specifically puts rules/warnings in place, after all, the movies are PG13. In this scenario, the over-protective mom would get mad at Little Johnny, not the game, if he were to venture into the adults chat, or play a game that wasn't G.

Our game developers are seriously talented people (their skill goes way above my head, and I'm sure they'll all go on to develop perhaps their own games in the future), I'm sure they could figure out an entirely new two chat system that would please everybody.

I used to play a game that had two chats. One for 18 and under, and one for 18 and up. It worked. And even though you still couldn't say outright curse words or hurtful things (as you shouldn't do anyway, bullying is not okay in any chat) in adult chat, but you could say funny jokes and have adult humor.

I think it's the adult humor that I'm getting at the most. I want to make friends and interact with them without sounding like I'm a robot. I want to joke and laugh and sail. The Pirates movies has a lot of adult humor. If it didn't, the franchise wouldn't have so many adult fans.

This has probably been talked about to death so I apologize.
 
:D Again, I agree :)

And, I like the 2-chat idea btw. I'm a terrible flirt and have a quite naughty sense of humour so I can appreciate completely where you're coming from. I find it very restrictive talking in game because I can't talk the way that is natural to me. Whereas in reality I am constantly joking around, in game I can't do that because of the chat and conversations become very serious looking and dry. I guess that's why so many here use chat programs like Discord (aside from the obvious benefits whilst crewing etc).

Still I think the aim is to reproduce the game as it was before introducing new stuff so I suspect that the chat probably won't be at the top of the list for things to be redesigned right now. But I have a BIG notebook and I plan to use it wisely!! :muahaha:

....my avatar...ty...I 'borrowed' it from MrGoogle ;)
 
Hi Grace! Love your avatar. I get it and agree with you.

However, I'm not saying curse words should be allowed. I'm totally fine with an actual curse word coming out as Arrrr.

It's the harmless other things, jokes, and phrases. I recently found out the word grass (no, really, just grass, no other nickname) isn't allowed, when referencing alcohol in the game is totally A Okay.

I just think there could be a better way to deal with this possible scenario. A warning before playing the game, stating it's rated PG13. Or a special two chat system, one for children and one for adults. The over-protective mom would see this rating and take note. She would also make him play in the kids chat. You can't really get mad at a game that specifically puts rules/warnings in place, after all, the movies are PG13. In this scenario, the over-protective mom would get mad at Little Johnny, not the game, if he were to venture into the adults chat, or play a game that wasn't G.

Our game developers are seriously talented people (their skill goes way above my head, and I'm sure they'll all go on to develop perhaps their own games in the future), I'm sure they could figure out an entirely new two chat system that would please everybody.

I used to play a game that had two chats. One for 18 and under, and one for 18 and up. It worked. And even though you still couldn't say outright curse words or hurtful things (as you shouldn't do anyway, bullying is not okay in any chat) in adult chat, but you could say funny jokes and have adult humor.

I think it's the adult humor that I'm getting at the most. I want to make friends and interact with them without sounding like I'm a robot. I want to joke and laugh and sail. The Pirates movies has a lot of adult humor. If it didn't, the franchise wouldn't have so many adult fans.

This has probably been talked about to death so I apologize.

Hey!

It's the harmless other things, jokes, and phrases. I recently found out the word grass (no, really, just grass, no other nickname) isn't allowed, when referencing alcohol in the game is totally A Okay.

Grass is perfectly acceptable when not used as a drug or other inappropriate reference. If it is, actions will most likely be taken against your account. https://tlopo.com/help/terms/

I just think there could be a better way to deal with this possible scenario. A warning before playing the game, stating it's rated PG13.

We are not seeking a rating by the ESRB.

I used to play a game that had two chats. One for 18 and under, and one for 18 and up. It worked.

That game likely had a large team of moderators being paid to watch the chat for anything that broke the rules. This is a volunteer project, we have lives to live and can not allocate resources for such a chat system. Please keep this in mind, open chat is a lot of work to maintain still.

I think it's the adult humor that I'm getting at the most. I want to make friends and interact with them without sounding like I'm a robot. I want to joke and laugh and sail. The Pirates movies has a lot of adult humor. If it didn't, the franchise wouldn't have so many adult fans.

That humour is best reserved for chatting platforms outside the game such as discord. You are being asked to be family friendly in a family friendly game, I don't think that's unreasonable given this is how it was in the original. If you don't like the family friendly nature of the chat, you do not have to use it, and can instead chat on other platforms instead, such as the many community discords.

The chat will remain family friendly. Every member on the team wishes for it to be family friendly. That will not change.

Hope you have a great day!
 
:D Again, I agree :)

And, I like the 2-chat idea btw. I'm a terrible flirt and have a quite naughty sense of humour so I can appreciate completely where you're coming from. I find it very restrictive talking in game because I can't talk the way that is natural to me. Whereas in reality I am constantly joking around, in game I can't do that because of the chat and conversations become very serious looking and dry. I guess that's why so many here use chat programs like Discord (aside from the obvious benefits whilst crewing etc).

Still I think the aim is to reproduce the game as it was before introducing new stuff so I suspect that the chat probably won't be at the top of the list for things to be redesigned right now. But I have a BIG notebook and I plan to use it wisely!! :muahaha:

....my avatar...ty...I 'borrowed' it from MrGoogle ;)

I'm a terrible flirt and have a quite naughty sense of humour so I can appreciate completely where you're coming from. I find it very restrictive talking in game because I can't talk the way that is natural to me.

If you wish to have a more "naughty" chat, we recommend using a platform to chat on outside of the game. We wish to keep this game family friendly, and it will remain as such.

Still I think the aim is to reproduce the game as it was before introducing new stuff so I suspect that the chat probably won't be at the top of the list for things to be redesigned right now.

The chat will remain, we do not have plans to redesign it to allow for open chat, or anything of the sort. If you wish to have words added to the whitelist, you may suggest them, but we will never allow "naughty" chats, or anything else that breaks our Terms of Service.
 
And, I like the 2-chat idea btw. I'm a terrible flirt and have a quite naughty sense of humour so I can appreciate completely where you're coming from. I find it very restrictive talking in game because I can't talk the way that is natural to me. Whereas in reality I am constantly joking around, in game I can't do that because of the chat and conversations become very serious looking and dry. I guess that's why so many here use chat programs like Discord (aside from the obvious benefits whilst crewing etc).

Hi Grace! I do too. I'm a huge flirt. It's just innocent humor. Will a kid really know what staff means besides the weapon? Hehe.
It's hard to use discord because if you ask someone in the game if they have it, isn't that like asking for their Facebook? Wouldn't that get you in trouble? Plus not everyone uses it. And it's a hassle.



Grass is perfectly acceptable when not used as a drug or other inappropriate reference.

We are not seeking a rating by the ESRB.

That game likely had a large team of moderators being paid to watch the chat for anything that broke the rules. This is a volunteer project, we have lives to live and can not allocate resources for such a chat system. Please keep this in mind, open chat is a lot of work to maintain still.

That humour is best reserved for chatting platforms outside the game such as discord. You are being asked to be family friendly in a family friendly game, I don't think that's unreasonable given this is how it was in the original. If you don't like the family friendly nature of the chat, you do not have to use it, and can instead chat on other platforms instead, such as the many community discords.

Hi Johnny! Thanks for replying. Admire the work you do! You're awesome. A couple questions, though.

I would be willing to volunteer to moderate open chats, if that is ever a possibility in the future?

I said the word grass, like "pirate grass" specifically, in reference to my slow sailing. Everyone was joking with me in the crew, saying that my sailing was awful, and asking if I was intoxicated. They all said they were drinking grog, rum, and "cold ones." I joined in and joked that yeah sure, I'm slow because I had too much pirate grass. Now, I'm wondering, why is references to alcohol allowed but not the words pirate grass? I could've been talked about lawn, for heavens sake. I was the only one who got into trouble, whereas the other pirates were specifically saying they were drunk. I was still family friendly, as I didn't say any specific drug name. If I say next time, "Yeah, too many pirate herbs, or potions," is that much of a difference?

I hesitate to use discord because isn't asking for it in game akin to asking for personal information like their Facebook? I've never asked because I don't want to get in trouble. Would I be banned for saying, "Hey guys, you use discord?" etc. I would've in the original game.

Also I didn't mean you actually had to get an official rating from the ESRB.

Thanks for your time. :) Keep on pirating.
 
This topic has been discussed in several threads already. We just don't currently have the manpower to create and/or moderate another whole chat implementation, on top of the existing workload of fixing bugs/adding POTCO features/yada already in progress.

This one falls into the bucket of "OK, looks like we got POTCO pretty much rebuilt, time to start adding new stuff!".

If at some point we DO add an open chat, and you are still interested, we may just take you up on the offer to help! :D
 
I appreciate what you're saying here @Johnny Telltale , but I didn't say I wanted 'adult' chat...just that I have a naughty sense of humour and I understand where ScarlettT was coming from.
I have no issues with the family friendly aspect of the current chat, and I'm both capable and willing to moderate my mode of speech in my conversations in game, as I do in real life when it is appropriate.

My point was more that it is currently quite difficult to converse in a normal manner purely because there are so many words missing from
the whitelist, but that I'm sure that will alter as people make more (suitable) suggestions for including there. :)

Edit: oops I missed a word out XD
 
Hi Grace! I do too. I'm a huge flirt. It's just innocent humor. Will a kid really know what staff means besides the weapon? Hehe.
It's hard to use discord because if you ask someone in the game if they have it, isn't that like asking for their Facebook? Wouldn't that get you in trouble? Plus not everyone uses it. And it's a hassle.

Thank you for the report involving inappropriate usage of "staff" in-game.

You may ask and share discord usernames freely, as they are not personal information like Facebook, Skype, Snapchat, and so on.

Hi Johnny! Thanks for replying. Admire the work you do! You're awesome. A couple questions, though.

I would be willing to volunteer to moderate open chats, if that is ever a possibility in the future?

I said the word grass, like "pirate grass" specifically, in reference to my slow sailing. Everyone was joking with me in the crew, saying that my sailing was awful, and asking if I was intoxicated. They all said they were drinking grog, rum, and "cold ones." I joined in and joked that yeah sure, I'm slow because I had too much pirate grass. Now, I'm wondering, why is references to alcohol allowed but not the words pirate grass? I could've been talked about lawn, for heavens sake. I was the only one who got into trouble, whereas the other pirates were specifically saying they were drunk. I was still family friendly, as I didn't say any specific drug name. If I say next time, "Yeah, too many pirate herbs, or potions," is that much of a difference?

I hesitate to use discord because isn't asking for it in game akin to asking for personal information like their Facebook? I've never asked because I don't want to get in trouble. Would I be banned for saying, "Hey guys, you use discord?" etc. I would've in the original game.

Also I didn't mean you actually had to get an official rating from the ESRB.

Thanks for your time. :) Keep on pirating.

If you have an account in good standing and we are currently hiring, I'm sure you could apply and be considered.

Referencing a drug is a serious violation of the Terms of Service, in answer to your question. We do not talk about bans in public, if you wish to inquire further about it or contest the ban please contact support@tlopo.com

Drinking is not considered a violation as, in the opening cutscene of the game Jack himself was drunk. However, at no point in the entirety of this game are drugs referenced. Apples and oranges, in other words.

I would've in the original game.
Discord did not exist when the original game was out, so we can't know this for sure. However, in TLOPO, you may share discords openly as they are not considered personal information like Facebook, Skype, Snapchat, and other various platforms are.

Fair winds!
 
I appreciate what you're saying here @Johnny Telltale , but I didn't say I wanted 'adult' chat...just that I have a naughty sense of humour and I understand where ScarlettT was coming from.
I have no issues with the family friendly aspect of the current chat, and I'm both capable and willing to moderate my mode of speech in my conversations in game, as I do in real life when it is appropriate.

My point was more that it is currently quite difficult to converse in a normal manner purely because there are so many words missing from
the whitelist, but that I'm sure that will alter as people make more (suitable) suggestions for including there. :)

Edit: oops I missed a word out XD

Ahh, gotcha, my apologies! Thank you for minding the chat, we greatly appreciate it!

You're more than welcome to suggest words for the whitelist, we're happy to listen and add the suitable ones :)
 
No apology needed Johnny XD

Honestly, when I first started playing the chat drove me nuts. It is very frustrating to say something using completely normal/acceptable words and have it Arrr'd out. But after one of you guys explained explained how the whitelist/blacklist thing works, it made sense and I realised we just need to add those words to it. We(the community) should consider it our 'contribution' to the finished game to help add those words and improve the chat.
But I have a BIG notebook and I plan to use it wisely!! :muahaha:

I'm making a list :)
 
Thank you for the report involving inappropriate usage of "staff" in-game.

You may ask and share discord usernames freely, as they are not personal information like Facebook, Skype, Snapchat, and so on.



If you have an account in good standing and we are currently hiring, I'm sure you could apply and be considered.

Referencing a drug is a serious violation of the Terms of Service, in answer to your question. We do not talk about bans in public, if you wish to inquire further about it or contest the ban please contact support@tlopo.com

Drinking is not considered a violation as, in the opening cutscene of the game Jack himself was drunk. However, at no point in the entirety of this game are drugs referenced. Apples and oranges, in other words.


Discord did not exist when the original game was out, so we can't know this for sure. However, in TLOPO, you may share discords openly as they are not considered personal information like Facebook, Skype, Snapchat, and other various platforms are.

Fair winds!

Hi again! Sorry if I'm bugging you. I'm just really interested in the interworking this complicated chat.

Good to know asking people about discord in game won't get you in trouble. Thank you.

I used the above (grass) as an example for humor, not to contest a ban. As it's not the same as curse words, or something identifiable and tangible to children.

I am meaning to ask, if silly, innocent humor such as this will ever be deemed not serious enough to be in trouble? Maybe just a slap on the wrist warning, like "Hey pirate, we noticed you've been a little risque! Let's not." Such as saying grass like I did, or staff. Obviously these aren't bad words. Nobody actually said a drug. Nobody actually named a body part, or used offensive cursing or explicit slang. Someone just made an innocent joke using a word with multiple meanings. Kind of like how we used to say "won" instead of "one" because "one" wasn't allowed. If a kid was listening he would literally hear the word staff and think of the weapon, or grass and think of the lawn. Because used in an ordinary sentence it doesn't mean much else. If Little Johnny told his mom, "Mom, what is pirate grass?" or "What is a staff?" or "Why does taking potions make you slow at sailing?" she wouldn't know what he was talking about. We're just using the games own terms, is all. I've heard people call themselves a Tally-Ho (obviously you know what I mean). Is that ban worthy too? Even though it's a term in the game, and nobody would really know what they were talking about out of context anyway?

This is the grey area I'm talking about. I agree with family friendly. No bullying, no cursing, no explicit bad or identifiable inappropriate language. The above is just an innocent game play on words, otherwise known as wit.

I honestly think it's a little weird that alcohol is okay for kids to hear, but not grass or potions. If that's a violation, so should alcohol be.

Thanks for your time. <3
 
I am meaning to ask, if silly, innocent humor such as this will ever be deemed not serious enough to be in trouble? Maybe just a slap on the wrist warning, like "Hey pirate, we noticed you've been a little risque! Let's not." Such as saying grass like I did, or staff. Obviously these aren't bad words. Nobody actually said a drug. Nobody actually named a body part, or used offensive cursing or explicit slang. Someone just made an innocent joke using a word with multiple meanings. Kind of like how we used to say "won" instead of "one" because "one" wasn't allowed. If a kid was listening he would literally hear the word staff and think of the weapon, or grass and think of the lawn. Because used in an ordinary sentence it doesn't mean much else. If Little Johnny told his mom, "Mom, what is pirate grass?" or "What is a staff?" or "Why does taking potions make you slow at sailing?" she wouldn't know what he was talking about. We're just using the games own terms, is all. I've heard people call themselves a Tally-Ho (obviously you know what I mean). Is that ban worthy too? Even though it's a term in the game, and nobody would really know what they were talking about out of context anyway?

This is the grey area I'm talking about. I agree with family friendly. No bullying, no cursing, no explicit bad or identifiable inappropriate language. The above is just an innocent game play on words, otherwise known as wit.

I honestly think it's a little weird that alcohol is okay for kids to hear, but not grass or potions. If that's a violation, so should alcohol be.

Thanks for your time. <3

Nobody actually said a drug. Nobody actually named a body part, or used offensive cursing or explicit slang. Someone just made an innocent joke using a word with multiple meanings.

The innuendo implied was drugs. Please read our Terms of Service, which you agreed to follow when playing this game:

https://tlopo.com/help/terms/

Usage of cursing, inappropriate innuendos or any other form of inappropriate language.

I've heard people call themselves a Tally-Ho (obviously you know what I mean). Is that ban worthy too? Even though it's a term in the game, and nobody would really know what they were talking about out of context anyway?

That is filter evasion, and breaks the Terms of Service due to being an inappropriate innuendo. Yes, they will be banned for implying something inappropriate.

This is the grey area I'm talking about.

There is no grey area. If you break the rules, you will be banned, there is no debate or argument about this - do not break the rules. You agreed to follow the rules when you play the game. Breaking the Terms of Service means there will be repercussions in the form of bans, and eventually termination of the account.

For more information regarding your ban, please contact support@tlopo.com - thank you.
 
I honestly think it's a little weird that alcohol is okay for kids to hear, but not grass or potions. If that's a violation, so should alcohol be.
When people say 'no drugs' they tend to mean no illegal drugs, but then that varies between states and countries. 'Inappropriate' is often treated as some objective, clearly defined term, but in practise that varies with the generation and cultural background of the moderator making the call. I tend to assume that if Jack Sparrow wouldn't say something on screen, that's probably about where the line is.

Ain't nothing inherently family friendly about Minecraft, BTW. Those public kids servers are pure Lord of the Flies / Twilight Zone Cornfield.
 
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I mean lets be honest though, you guys are way more strict on the filter than POTCO was which makes no sense. We've all grown up since POTCO and would be open chat so why restrict it more. It's ludicrous.

I too agree with this, but another thing is that humans are a creative bunch and get around filters. Problem is, when these filters are on an explicit word by word basis, you end up more problems than it solves. Some people and places have some rather unfortunate names that would get caught by the filter and stopped. Furthermore, when certain things are discouraged from being said often times they find a more innocent sounding word and use that, until that gets blacklisted. This is a fundamental problem of censoring any words. When we aren't allowed to say or do certain things, either in an MMO with a chat system, or on television, it creates the impression that the thing is incredibly taboo and should not be said, so kids learn what these "dirty" words or actions are and say/do them to get a reaction.

It's a lot like the cloud of dust we see in the Lion King that spelled out "SFX", people made a fuss over it because they thought it said something else and was "a subtle attempt to indoctrinate our kids into activity they aren't mature enough for". In TTR for example, we can say just about any 3 digit number except for two very specific ones. 420 and 666. To any adult what these two numbers are often used for is obvious, but to a kid, or anyone unaware of what these numbers represent, they're just numbers. They may get curious about what these numbers means and look it up in their search engine of choice, and may be attracted to try something that is illegal.

Some words should definitely be removed from the blacklist, but by the nature of a blacklist, we should not really know what's on it until we trigger the system. A complaint I say on the forums recently was someone got a warning from the moderation system for saying "bang", problem is, the moderation system, as it is, cannot process context and is unaware that this person was using the word as an onomatopoeia.

This is the fundamental problem of censorship. It ultimately leads to a desire to know exactly what was a said and why it's so terrible it just had to be censored.
 
When people say 'no drugs' they tend to mean no illegal drugs, but then that varies between states and countries. 'Inappropriate' is often treated as some objective, clearly defined term, but in practise that varies with the generation and cultural background of the moderator making the call. I tend to assume that if Jack Sparrow wouldn't say something on screen, that's probably about where the line is.

Ain't nothing inherently family friendly about Minecraft, BTW. Those public kids servers are pure Lord of the Flies / Twilight Zone Cornfield.

I think the only reason why certain alcohols are allowed to be stated is because there is a certain quest in the game where you have to get so much rum for an NPC. If that quest, or the loot item grog, wasn't in the game, I don't we would be allowed to say it, with the possible exception of whiskey which is part of the NATO alphabet, but then again, Zulu isn't in the whitelist.

And while we're on the subject of filters, I think Whiskey Tango Foxtrot should be added to the blacklist if it isn't already, for reasons that should be obvious.
 
I too agree with this, but another thing is that humans are a creative bunch and get around filters. Problem is, when these filters are on an explicit word by word basis, you end up more problems than it solves. Some people and places have some rather unfortunate names that would get caught by the filter and stopped. Furthermore, when certain things are discouraged from being said often times they find a more innocent sounding word and use that, until that gets blacklisted. This is a fundamental problem of censoring any words. When we aren't allowed to say or do certain things, either in an MMO with a chat system, or on television, it creates the impression that the thing is incredibly taboo and should not be said, so kids learn what these "dirty" words or actions are and say/do them to get a reaction.

It's a lot like the cloud of dust we see in the Lion King that spelled out "SFX", people made a fuss over it because they thought it said something else and was "a subtle attempt to indoctrinate our kids into activity they aren't mature enough for". In TTR for example, we can say just about any 3 digit number except for two very specific ones. 420 and 666. To any adult what these two numbers are often used for is obvious, but to a kid, or anyone unaware of what these numbers represent, they're just numbers. They may get curious about what these numbers means and look it up in their search engine of choice, and may be attracted to try something that is illegal.

Some words should definitely be removed from the blacklist, but by the nature of a blacklist, we should not really know what's on it until we trigger the system. A complaint I say on the forums recently was someone got a warning from the moderation system for saying "bang", problem is, the moderation system, as it is, cannot process context and is unaware that this person was using the word as an onomatopoeia.

This is the fundamental problem of censorship. It ultimately leads to a desire to know exactly what was a said and why it's so terrible it just had to be censored.
Just because a kid looks up "420" doesn't mean they are going to try drugs because of some number that got censored when they tried to type it
 
It'd be a pretty weird pirate game that pretended rum didn't exist, honestly. :D And seriously, the more a culture demonises (eg) alcohol, the more kids are going to get themselves in trouble drinking way underage. Taboos make education harder, make adults less trusted, and add an enticing veneer of the forbidden to any subject.
 
It'd be a pretty weird pirate game that pretended rum didn't exist, honestly. :D And seriously, the more a culture demonises (eg) alcohol, the more kids are going to get themselves in trouble drinking way underage. Taboos make education harder, make adults less trusted, and add an enticing veneer of the forbidden to any subject.
I see what you mean but we can't have everyone in game walking around saying "I do drugs because I'm cool" or something dumb like that. I'm sure most players here aren't on any illegal drugs, but you never know.... Especially if people are just making jokes but a younger guildie/pirate/friend/crewmate overhears it and doesn't understand the circumstances. There are some young people that play this game, I started POTCO when I was 7-ish. U agree, the filter does need some work, but I think it's better now than if the devs are too lenient.
 
Just because a kid looks up "420" doesn't mean they are going to try drugs because of some number that got censored when they tried to type it

The problem is something that has become known as the forbidden fruit effect, where the prohibition status may actually make it more desirable. Actual education may help keep people off of drugs, but this fear mongering of "If you do it only once, you'll die" is excessive.

I admit, the likelihood of something like what I described ever happening is very low, but it doesn't change the fact that censorship never helps. It only serves to signal the impressionable mind that what is being said or shown is wrong. Why should 420 and 666 be treated any different? They are numbers just like 34, 69, 4 (number of death in many Asian countries), and 13. It's nothing wrong with these numbers, it's something with our culture that has applied superstition or acts best done in private venues to these numbers.

If these are just used as numbers, which I imagine would be the most amount of cases, then there is nothing wrong with saying them. But when these numbers are used in explicit reference to what we, as a culture, assigned to them, some disciplinary action may be justified.

I don't anticipate kids to know what these numbers mean in a cultural context, but by not allowing these numbers to be said we are reinforcing their taboo nature.

If you want your kids to respect alcohol, then you have go to teach them the effects it has on the body. None of this "don't do it" crud.
 
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