Petition for a better POTCO

[Sires]

Why do you guys still try? It's like a young kid asking for a toy. He knows he probably won't get it. He still has hope, that his parents will get him the toy. You guys are asking POTCO to improve, correct? We both know they won't improve. Yeah, yeah, there's always hope. I have played this game since it released, and I use to be just like you guys. I would have hope things would get better.

It didn't.

Anyone remember the old bodies petition? We got a lot of people that signed that. What did POTCO say?

No, old bodies will not be returning.

What's funny is they use Panda 3D. (horrible gaming engine) It's like since the very beginning they weren't even wanting to try. They didn't even bother to make their own engine.

Anyways, you guys can still keep trying. Just remember the past.

Do want you wanna do.

 

[JadeOHayes]

First of all, I'd like to thank the writer for making a product available to be discussed (for the purpose of being bombarded by critiques). It is not easy to create something from nothing; to start with a blank canvas. And it is always easier to critique based on something that is ready to accept critiques, I am aware of that. I truly appreciated the hard work and effort. Please allow me to voice my opinion, not to try to find every loophole in the 'draft' (but that's why it is called a 'draft'), but for the purpose to improve the draft, so that it will accomodate all concerns and serve the correct purpose, by the most effective way of communication.

I'm not a writer per se; I appreciated the rhetorical style of language used here, because I'm more technical and practical in viewing things. I do have a technical writing experience however; when I wrote my thesis, one out of 3 of my mentors/professors was assigned to me (students), especially for the technical writing aspect of a science report and the research methodology. Everything needs to line up and tie up in a logical explanation, aiming for the goal of the report. I'm not saying that there is one way that is the absolute correct way or the other way that is the absolute incorrect way. I'm just saying that there is the most effective way of communication, especially when we are trying to convey a message to others. Based on this, I'm pointing out several things concerning the structure of the writing, and the content of the writing.

The structure of the writing:

As a player, if I read this draft, I would look for pointers. Without those, I am missing the entire point and with this style of writing, I do not get right away what is the goal/purpose of having a Petition. I understand the language used is persuasion style, but it does not mean that we cannot use a more straighforward approach. I am not convinced that this rhetorical style is the most communicative way to convey the message of the Petition and why we have a Petition at all.

Some suggestions:

1. Opening of the Petition - Greeting to all Pirates (e.g.: "Ahoy Fellow Pirates!")

2. What event are we having (e.g.: "We gather to voice our concerns in regards to ...")

3. Background of event, which consists of Why we are having this event (e.g.: "We are approaching the fifth year of Potco ... All these years, we have experienced ... we have gone through ... but we prevail!"). Explanations of the good things, friendship built, memories made, how the game provides positive experience to players, etc., as well as the appreciation of the good things that the game used to have (which are no longer available). Obstacles, game problems, complaints and concerns are presented here.

4. Summary of Petition: One or two-sentence of powerful, straight-to-the-point statement. This might be the most important message we are trying to convey to the readers. It is a statement, that it is time for Potco to get things straight. It can also state our confidence that if things can get fixed/improved, the result would roll and potentially snowball into greater impacts on the game and eventually for the company/DIMG itself (e.g.: "We proclaim that it is time for a change. We ask Potco to provide us with ... ").

5. List of how to fix, improve, make things better, such as suggestions, requests and possible solutions (e.g. "With minimum activities to do for mastered pirates, it would be highly appreciated new weapons/quests/island ...").

Pointers would be the summary and things that will easily capture readers' attention (in this case: players who are approached to sign the Petition). Pointers should be bolded/highlighted like Chapters on a book/Header on an article (magazine/newspaper). As of right now, the only points highlighted are the list of our complaints/concerns mixed up with suggestions and requirements to Potco. In my opinion, that is missing the point of the entire mission, because the draft only emphasizes in problems and complaint.

A sample suggestion on format:

Ahoy Pirates! ​

​

We gather to voice our concerns about ... ​

​

Why we do this​

It has been five years since Potco sailed the Carribean seas. We have built ...​

We have come across obstacles and problems ... ​

​

The Petition​

Now is the time for a change. We would like to see ...​

​

How this game can improve​

We inquire Disney Potco to provide with better ...​

The content of the writing:

I understand that this draft is the first part of the Petition, and it is aimed towards the Players, as an "invitation" to participate in signing the Petition, as well as an information. I understand that it is said, that there will be a second part of the draft that is aimed towards the leadership of Potco. However, those two should not, and there is no need to be, very different in content. The language could be different, because the first part of the Petition is addressing "you" or "we" (referring to Players), and the second part of the Petition is addressing "leadership of Potco", but not the content.

I might be getting ahead of myself of making comments about the second part of the Petition, but I do hope that the writing format will be more communicative, especially when we are aiming the general public. According to an article that I read, people will give 10 seconds to decide whether they need to continue browsing or to skip altogether. Within that narrow time, there is a small window of opportunity that we have to get their attention. The message needs to be simple, easy to understand and powerful.
http://www.newtonslawsofinfluence.c...pture-your-audience-before-they-tune-you-out/

We will also need to decide whether we are going to use British-English or American-English for the entire text, as it is currently inconsistent and is potentially causing confusion in meanings (e.g.: enquire-inquire, program-programme).

Why do you guys still try? It's like a young kid asking for a toy. He knows he probably won't get it. He still has hope, that his parents will get him the toy. You guys are asking POTCO to improve, correct? We both know they won't improve. Yeah, yeah, there's always hope. I have played this game since it released, and I use to be just like you guys. I would have hope things would get better.

It didn't.

Anyone remember the old bodies petition? We got a lot of people that signed that. What did POTCO say?

No, old bodies will not be returning.

What's funny is they use Panda 3D. (horrible gaming engine) It's like since the very beginning they weren't even wanting to try. They didn't even bother to make their own engine.

Anyways, you guys can still keep trying. Just remember the past.

Do want you wanna do.

Why we are still trying, Sires? Here are why:

We all fully understand that we have not received as many positive responses from developer team as we think we should. We are also aware that we have been sending feedbacks, requests, questions, reports to the same institutions or people, which lead to little result. This Petition is an attempt to reach a different management/decision maker team or people, which hopefully, if we do this in one accord - not sporadically - will result differently.

Do not underestimate that we might not realize that this Petition might not result in a positive way. But I do not agree with you, that we both knew, that there would not be improvement. Nobody knows that; not you and certainly nor do we. But we all will not know unless we try. Again.

So please do not be negative about this effort. I understand that there are a lot that do not agree or do not care about this Petition, and those are pirates' individual choices. We have no desire to enforce this Petition unto any player. Only support this Petition, if you believe that we have a chance to make a difference, that together, our voices are louder. That's the most important that we do here; which is believing that we do not do anything wrong by doing this, and that we are fighting for a chance. Let the result be what it might be, as long as we have tried and have exhausted every way possible way to see a change. And nobody will be able to say or complain later that we have not tried enough.

Everything else ... let's cross that bridge when we get there. One thing at a time.

 

[Sires]

I'm not trying to be negative i'm just telling you the past. Which so many people love to ignore the past.

"I know we can do everything! Yay everything is so happy! We can do it!" - that attitude wont get you guys anywhere.

Why?

Look at the past.

"But Sires! Your wrong! Were right!" really? Was I wrong about the old bodies petition? No.

"We all fully understand that we have not received as many positive responses from developer team as we think we should. We are also aware that we have been sending feedbacks, requests, questions, reports to the same institutions or people, which lead to little result. This Petition is an attempt to reach a different management/decision maker team or people, which hopefully, if we do this in one accord - not sporadically - will result differently."

Why would they want to improve? They have your money. You admitted your self, you guys sent in other stuff it didn't work. You can call your petition another way to reach management/decision. But in the end, its same old petition. People have sent messages to POTCO in one accord. Did it work?

Nope

Everyone knew there would be no chance we would get the old bodies back. Then we have people like you won't admit that you knew. What ever makes you feel better.

" But we all will not know unless we try. Again."

I hope you were joking in the line above me. We have tried, for years. 5 years! We know what's going to happen. We have done it thousands of times before.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

I'm not trying to be negative i'm just telling you the past. Which so many people love to ignore the past.

"I know we can do everything! Yay everything is so happy! We can do it!" - that attitude wont get you guys anywhere.

Why?

Look at the past.

Just a "little" LIFE lesson...that can be applied to whatever. ​

​

"For time and the world do not stand still. Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the future." - John F. Kennedy​

​

 

[JadeOHayes]

Sires, I'd like you to know that I do not deny what you said about the condition with the game. I just plainly stated the reasons why we were/are doing this. And I am not trying to turn this discussion into 'my words against your words', because that is not the intention of this thread. You are entitled to your own point of view and I am not trying to change your mind. There are always pros and contras when it comes to actions and words. And that's common.

I'd like to point out that - as many skeptics out there who think that this effort is a waste of time and energy - there are players who think it is worth our time and energy. At least we will know in the end how far our effort might bring us, that we might not know otherwise unless we do it.

Let's move on and proceed with this Petition, guys, and thank you for voicing your opinions.

 

[Zia Badncool]

Thank you for better expressing what I was trying to explain through your post, JadeOHayes. The part where I was trying to explain what I thought about the beginning statement is where you explained my idea better. I don't think that the first sentence in the draft is foggy as long as it goes to explain rather than leaving it at that the fact that POTCO is almost five years old. For example, your example, "e.g.: "We are approaching the fifth year of Potco ... All these years, we have experienced ... we have gone through ... but we prevail!"" It's short and sweet but still explanatory enough.

"One or two-sentence of powerful, straight-to-the-point statement. This might be the most important message we are trying to convey to the readers." This is exactly what I was trying to say, too. It will appeal to readers and bring the whole thing together while sounding very put-together.

You are also very correct when you say that we have this short time frame to 'make an impression' on the readers before they lose interest and forget about it all together. At least if it is very clear from the beginning what this petition is and what it is trying to accomplish, one might sign without reading anything all together (which is not a bad thing). We also have to realize that there are many different age groups that play the game and that are going to see this petition via the different forums and social networks. If we make it informative, that's wonderful (which it definitely is). But we have to make sure that the main point is conveyed quickly because not everyone will take the time to read the whole thing- especially if they are a part of the younger age range.

Lastly, most petitions are very short and to the point. However, I think it is a great idea to explain the different issues we face like Leo's friend perfectly wrote out. So because we have the detailed examples, I think that the very beginning, before the examples, should be cleared a little so that the interest of readers is obtained and kept (or at least kept long enough for them to sign their information). The title helps. For example, saying "Help Us Revive Pirates of the Caribbean Online"! basically tells you everything you need to know. Then a few sentences after that explaining the idea of the petition. Then BOOM. You have the reader's attention long enough for them to sign!

Oh, and I forgot to mention that there is usually a statement directly addressing the people you are serving the petition to, (DIMG officials in this case), towards the end saying something like "We the undersigned call upon --insert officials/company name here- to blah blah blah. Heres an example: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/reserve-land-for-the-gray-wolves.html

All of you have great ideas and I love how we are working on it together to save the Caribbean!

 

[LEO]

The author is following the thread. I should mention again that she is a founder in POTCO and still plays the game. She will do her best to work with the suggestions and this is a first draft.

She asked me to point something out in response to some of the suggestions.

We need to avoid being to specific because we start to lose credibility. We also don't want think were being pushy. If we insult their intelligence by being picky, or ask for the impossible. In this we are demonstrating that there are areas for improvement, not giving the a job list

You guys also touched on the formal writing. Not every player we direct to the forums(and where the petition is posted) will want to be hit by a barrage of formal text, and Disney certainly wont respond well to formal text since we are A) not their governing body and B) we have no official or legal representation. IF the tone is not right to both players and the upper echelons of Disney will ignore it.

The second part is going to finalize this as well like any campaign or appeal.

 

[Christopher Cannonskull]

Why do you guys still try? It's like a young kid asking for a toy. He knows he probably won't get it. He still has hope, that his parents will get him the toy. You guys are asking POTCO to improve, correct? We both know they won't improve. Yeah, yeah, there's always hope. I have played this game since it released, and I use to be just like you guys. I would have hope things would get better.

It didn't.

Anyone remember the old bodies petition? We got a lot of people that signed that. What did POTCO say?

No, old bodies will not be returning.

What's funny is they use Panda 3D. (horrible gaming engine) It's like since the very beginning they weren't even wanting to try. They didn't even bother to make their own engine.

Anyways, you guys can still keep trying. Just remember the past.

Do want you wanna do.

they wouldn't bring back the old bodies because they conflicted with the weapons.... seriously why would you want to bring something back that breaks, the new bodies still work the same believe it or not the new bodies are better depending on the type of body you pick now you get different advantages you wouldn't notice normally like jumping height and attack speed, and dont say they could fix it because they did, they changed them to what they are now, and panda 3d isnt a horrible gaming engine its just fine, and disney doesn't have nearly enough money to develop there own engine or to use another give them time stop complaining and let them do there job maintaining updates and keeping up with the number of bugs in the game cant be at all easy especially sense people keep complaining about them being slow if you dont like it stop playing till it updates there plenty of other games to pass the time.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

We also have to realize that there are many different age groups that play the game and that are going to see this petition via the different forums and social networks. If we make it informative, that's wonderful (which it definitely is). But we have to make sure that the main point is conveyed quickly because not everyone will take the time to read the whole thing- especially if they are a part of the younger age range.

Zia !

 

[Davy Darkrage]

Anyone remember the old bodies petition? We got a lot of people that signed that. What did POTCO say?

No, old bodies will not be returning.

There were animation issues with the old body types that could not be overcome, which would seem to me to be a strong ground for Disney to stand on with that decision. Not to mention the body types are not really important to the game at all.

What's funny is they use Panda 3D. (horrible gaming engine) It's like since the very beginning they weren't even wanting to try. They didn't even bother to make their own engine.

Disney's VR Studio created a 3D engine, originally for virtual reality type rides at Disneyland. Years later they expanded the engine's capabilities and launched their first MMO, Toontown Online, in the year 2001. A year later in 2002, the engine was open-sourced as Panda3D. Disney did completely develop Panda3D.

A few years later, they'd use the engine again to develop Pirates of the Caribbean Online. Their decision to do this must have seemed obvious as they already had a substantial amount of code they could reuse from Toontown and knew the engine well as they had developed it.

While the engine is currently open-source, allowing Carnegie Melon University, among others, to play a big role in development, Disney still actively develops the engine.

I'm curious why you believe it to be a bad gaming engine? Not to say it's without its problems but Disney isn't exactly using the engine to its fullest potential. Most of the simplicity of things like graphics come from a desire to make the game playable on older hardware to increase their player demographic, which is largely kids without top notch gaming computers. It's also a bit unreasonable to expect them to use something else, especially engines developed my other companies, imo.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

Most of the simplicity of things like graphics come from a desire to make the game playable on older hardware to increase their player demographic, which is largely kids without top notch gaming computers. It's also a bit unreasonable to expect them to use something else, especially engines developed my other companies, imo.

Your insight - Davy - is the absolute "first" I have ever read concerning Panda3D. *I appreciate you sharing some of the specifics (not to mention the 'point-of-view' as to why Disney relies upon Panda3D as they do). Thank you!

The bolded section within your comment is "something" that has always remained within the back of my mind but (up until this point), has never directly stared back at me in print. *Avast! Could Disney be a bit "blinded" by the fact that so many adults (in contrast to 'children') are loyal supporters of POTCO? As far as demographics are concerned, I personally see the balance of the scale between adults & kids playing POTCO quite unequal.

It just seems to me that the longer I play this game, the less children & young teens I see (at any given moment) acting foolish & piratey within the Caribbean.

 

[JadeOHayes]

You guys also touched on the formal writing. Not every player we direct to the forums(and where the petition is posted) will want to be hit by a barrage of formal text, and Disney certainly wont respond well to formal text since we are A) not their governing body and B) we have no official or legal representation. IF the tone is not right to both players and the upper echelons of Disney will ignore it.

The 'formal' writing is not what I asked, at least as far as I am concerned (Idk how other ppl think). But 'straightforwardness' and writing format are my biggest concerns. To be honest, if I were not following this discussion, and were among one of those hundreds pirates out there that were approached to sign this petition, I would think, "What is this?" Points were not taken, because too long of an introduction that I would have to 'find my own conclusion' as to what were actually trying to be accomplished there.

There is a difference between 'persuasion and clear' and 'persuasion and cloudy'. The language - if it that important to make it pirate-like - can be 'informal', as in the language style used in the first draft, but the format has to change. I'm curious as to how we are going to make 'different language'/format to address the pirates who are approached to sign Petition, and to address DIMG and other Potco leadership or Potco-related media. I would have to make sure both of them do confirm one another, or we would have a problem there. What we are approached with, and what we are going to sign, if they are two different parts, have to be essentially the same. I may not be a writer and may not have a writing education background, but that is the logic (I never had any experience with having two different formats when I was approached for a Petition before).

Easier to understand format, makes it easier to get the whole intention of the Petition. If the management of Potco were busy people in real life (I'm not saying that they are, but if they are), and only have so much time to go through emails & letters, what would they look in an email when they have 100 in their inbox? Something that caught their eyes. If the 'letter' looked like narration, it would easily be overlooked (and that's exactly one of those that they would ignore). We do not want to 'fail' on getting their attention, before the 'war' itself (= our Petition) begins. If we 'failed' the war because they would not give in to our Petition, that is a different story, and that's something that we take a chance to do and that we hope we can break through. But do not let it fail because it gets cut short from the beginning, before it gets to its destination and has a chance to 'speak' its message.

 

[LEO]

The 'formal' writing is not what I asked, at least as far as I am concerned (Idk how other ppl think). But 'straightforwardness' and writing format are my biggest concerns. To be honest, if I were not following this discussion, and were among one of those hundreds pirates out there that were approached to sign this petition, I would think, "What is this?" Points were not taken, because too long of an introduction that I would have to 'find my own conclusion' as to what were actually trying to be accomplished there.

There is a difference between 'persuasion and clear' and 'persuasion and cloudy'. The language - if it that important to make it pirate-like - can be 'informal', as in the language style used in the first draft, but the format has to change. I'm curious as to how we are going to make 'different language'/format to address the pirates who are approached to sign Petition, and to address DIMG and other Potco leadership or Potco-related media. I would have to make sure both of them do confirm one another, or we would have a problem there. What we are approached with, and what we are going to sign, if they are two different parts, have to be essentially the same. I may not be a writer and may not have a writing education background, but that is the logic (I never had any experience with having two different formats when I was approached for a Petition before).

Easier to understand format, makes it easier to get the whole intention of the Petition. If the management of Potco were busy people in real life (I'm not saying that they are, but if they are), and only have so much time to go through emails & letters, what would they look in an email when they have 100 in their inbox? Something that caught their eyes. If the 'letter' looked like narration, it would easily be overlooked (and that's exactly one of those that they would ignore). We do not want to 'fail' on getting their attention, before the 'war' itself (= our Petition) begins. If we 'failed' the war because they would not give in to our Petition, that is a different story, and that's something that we take a chance to do and that we hope we can break through. But do not let it fail because it gets cut short from the beginning, before it gets to its destination and has a chance to 'speak' its message.

Don't want to get off topic but when you listen to a presidential speech, a very important part of the campaign that gets the voters attention, do they blatantly make a list of their future goals or do they talk for an hour? Are they straightforward in that they will lower or increase taxes or do they explain why it's good to raise or lower taxes? What makes a great speaker? Authors, speakers and others who go out for support, all have to be good at sending out an explicit message with the support of the implicit message. True authors make their own writing rules.

The second part, will be like the twin of this. I don't think I mentioned that it would be much of a different format. To get back in the political example, politicians give speeches but they also have the party's platform which they follow and support. In their speeches, they have to be well spoken. In the writing above, it explains POTCO's background with players and current state and asks for support by signing the petition so Disney can prioritize on POTCO. This is somewhat political where Disney is kind of the government. I personally find this very easy to understand because it tells you there are issues and it asks for support.

My point is, this has to be professional. There is still stuff that can be added. You are talking about the explicit information. This is still on the first draft so it will have a few lines that are explicit or straightforward for the little kiddies who would have a hard time to understand. Most will just look at the tittle and see that it's about a better POTCO and just sign it regardless. THose who will read the whole text, will have to understand if they read the whole thing.

 

[JadeOHayes]

Don't want to get off topic but when you listen to a presidential speech, a very important part of the campaign that gets the voters attention, do they blatantly make a list of their future goals or do they talk for an hour? Are they straightforward in that they will lower or increase taxes or do they explain why it's good to raise or lower taxes? What makes a great speaker? Authors, speakers and others who go out for support, all have to be good at sending out an explicit message with the support of the implicit message. True authors make their own writing rules.

Just to put in perspective, this is NOT a presidential speech, but a PETITION. People who listen to a presidential speech, expect to get a lot of points, if not exactly the opposite - the points are so widespread that they listen as they go. That's just a fact. A petition should not be formatted in a comparison with a presidential speech. Maybe we want to take a chance to get ignored? Well, we could, but that's not a smart thing to do. Basically, this writing needs improvements, to make our chance bigger to make impression; to players, and to DIMG. It's hard to 'argue' about this first part, and then we would hear "but this is just the first part, the second part is not going to be like this." Then what is the second part going to look like, if it's "different" than the first part, yet it is stated that it "would not be different, but like a 'twin' of the first part"? Then it would be narrative like this? Surely our voices count?

Alright, I will lay this to rest, as for now, waiting on the second part. I have stated, I like the petition idea, but depending on how well-formulated, not missing the point, would I take parts in it. I understand I might be unpopular with this, but it is important that a petition is worded like a petition should be.

 

[Zia Badncool]

I understand where the both of you are coming from. We do need to make sure that it is well-written and professional. But that is the difference between the writing that appeals to the readers and convinces them to sign and the writing that is directed towards the officials whom we are serving the petition. I think that for the general readers, or future-signers, it should be a little less formal because we have to consider the age and time factor at hand- of the reader and time the reader has to spend reading. Honestly, I am positive that even some adults don't want to sit there and read a long formal writing the same as anyone younger. But whatever writing styles are used, it still has to be straightforward, to-the-point, and somewhat engaging so that the reader is convinced that he/she can make a difference by taking a minute to sign. I don't really think you can make a comparison between a presidential speech and a petition as practically everything about them is completely different. Petitions are pretty much always short and to-the-point. The point is to briefly explain what we want to change, and say "Hey! If you agree, sign this petition for change!".

*In relation to my last sentence, if you have time, please take a quick look at this petition as an example of how one might be written (length, format, formality). http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/reserve-land-for-the-gray-wolves.html (you can also find many other examples of petitions on this popular online petition website)

I do want us to continue moving forward with this despite our various differences. We have some similar and some completely opposite ideas and thoughts here but we will have to make a compromise on some things to reach some sort of agreement so we can fulfill our intended goal.

 

[LEO]

The political view was a different scenario. In the end, both are looking for support. Signatures are the votes.

 

[LEO]

I am curious. Can you point out directly where you are getting confused or where this isn't straightforward. What part of this is hard to understand? Because the language nor the format confuse me.

If you want this to be directed 80% at kids chances are 80% of kids are not gonna read anything if they are under 12.. they would most likely sign it as soon as they see something is to be signed...

 

[Rannulf]

This is more a "letter of concern" then a petition. We who will become signators to this are merely agreeing with the text, and in turn hope Disney will take notice. Thus "Reviving" the game we all love and enjoy.

The only thing I would like addressed in the text is we need a better interface with the dev team on test for sure. Also more activity on the main website like bringing back the on the horizon feature and just plain update the website.

Little tired at the moment, will add more when I clear me head and get some rest.

 

[JadeOHayes]

To tell you the truth, I can't say anymore about this first part draft, because it depends on what the second part draft would say. We can exhaust ourselves going back and forth about the first draft, if it's not going to change anything, there is no use. This was supposed to be a 'draft' - meaning not final, meaning was presented to be improved, if I am not mistaken. If it is final, then there is no point of creating a discussion thread; we could just be offered a text, and then invite players to sign - if agree to it - or not to sign - if not agree with it. But we do have this thread, so please remind us what the purpose of this thread, if there is no more change needed. As long as we have not seen any input become an improvement, this discussion is just going to get stuck on the spot.

So we might as well move on to the second part of the Petition, as we heard we should see. If we are not moving on, then what else should we say? I have voiced my opinion, and some others have as well. I have mentioned that I was curious as to what the second part would say, since it is actually the most important part that we - if we remember how we got to this far, which is on the other thread - https://piratesforums.co/threads/potco-whats-disney-been-up-to.7138/ - are about to do. As a summary, on the other thread, members discussed what Disney Potco might have done or might not have done now. As many have 'grouches' towards the developer team, not much result we could see. So I said, "why can't we bring this to the higher level of decision makers of Potco, because if we keep on bringing these problems/complaints to the same ppl, we received little response/follow up". That was when Leo's idea came about; to create a Petition to bring this to ppl or other 'media' where Potco might get some attention. And the follow up was this thread, and it was stated that there would be two parts of the Petition; the first part addressed to the players to collect support, and the second part addressed to DIMG, developer team and (possibly) other places. I have not seen two parts of a Petition before; usually petitions that were offered to me to support contained only one part. The same part was self-explanatory for me to sign, and would be directed to the destination agency (I assume, I was not the organizer, so I would not know how the organizer would submit the Petition to the destination agency). The format of the petitions that I was offered to support was always "background" and "the statement", simple and straightforward, clear what is asked.

Since there are two parts of Petition - it is said here - then those two were supposed to be the very close in content, otherwise it would be a problem. If we see the first draft like this, will this reflect the second part? That is why there no use of prolonging this first part discussion, if it all depends on what the second part would say, and if there is no other revision to discuss.

I understand that Petition does not have any legal power, if it is held by group of ppl or community, unlike representatives of ppl in governmental agency. So it is correct, what Rannulf stated. A petition is always just a letter of concern, no forceful authority to the destination (we even knew the result could be negative or positive). However as much as it was 'just a letter of concern', we are - in fact - spending time and energy to collect supports, because that is the whole point of having a 'petition', which is a lot of voices becoming one. And to make sure we don't just waste time and energy collecting supports, we would like to raise our chances to get the attention of the agencies that we intend to send this Petition to. If this effort just goes to the 'trash' box of the emails of those ppl, we have completely wasted our time and energy. So I'm personally not losing vision of why we are trying to have a Petition.

I am curious. Can you point out directly where you are getting confused or where this isn't straightforward. What part of this is hard to understand? Because the language nor the format confuse me.

A sample suggestion on format:

Ahoy Pirates! ​

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We gather to voice our concerns about ... ​

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Why we do this​

It has been five years since Potco sailed the Carribean seas. We have built ...​

We have come across obstacles and problems ... ​

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The Petition​

Now is the time for a change. We would like to see ...​

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How this game can improve​

We inquire Disney Potco to provide with better ...​

*In relation to my last sentence, if you have time, please take a quick look at this petition as an example of how one might be written (length, format, formality). http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/reserve-land-for-the-gray-wolves.html (you can also find many other examples of petitions on this popular online petition website)

Please compare the draft of the first part of the Petition, and what I stated, and what Zia pointed out on the example of petition. That's the 'non-straightforward' part of the draft. No more comment from me about the first part until the second part of the Petition is presented, because there is nothing else to say.

If you want this to be directed 80% at kids chances are 80% of kids are not gonna read anything if they are under 12.. they would most likely sign it as soon as they see something is to be signed...

Seriously? Then why would we have this discussion at all? Just present whatever, and they would sign ...?
That was not what Zia said, you know it was not true. Most players here, even though they are or are not 12 or under, would rather sign without reading, if they could help it. I think this is getting very unhealthy, because the positions are becoming 'offensive' and 'defensive', as if there is no need to have feedback? Why are we having the 'discussion', I wonder ... Please let me know honestly if there is no need to have a further discussion, we'll just have whatever final Petition presented, and that would save everybody's time and energy.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

If ye mates don't mind, let me include this link which might be of some help as far as discussion on how to influence people. *The few points below, were taken from a section of the link I found interesting in consideration to the drafting of this petition (note - I had deleted some information for emphasis).

Tactics for influencing others
Use comparison. If everyone else were doing something, would you do it, too? Well, according to the laws of persuasion, you very well might. People like to do what everybody else is doing. If everyone else is signing your petition, passersby will be drawn to it as well. If half the people in town are sporting bumper stickers for your organization, the other half will probably want to know where they can pick up one as well. And so on.

• Get people in the habit of saying yes. Then, make whatever you want to convince people of agree with what they have been saying. Generally, when people take a stand, they want to be consistent. So, if you can get someone to agree on several points related to what you want them to do or believe, it's harder for them to turn you down when you come in for the punch. (Example below)

Make sense? Steve Booth-Butterfield, an expert on persuasion, explains this idea with the following example: ​

Earnest Salesperson: "Excuse me, but do you think that a good education is important for your kids?"​

You: "Yes, of course."​

ES: "And do you think that kids who do their homework will get better grades?"​

You: "Yes, I'm sure of that."​

ES: "And reference books would help kids do better on their homework, don't you think?"​

You: "I'd have to say yes to that."​

ES: "Well, I sell reference books. May I come in and help improve your child's health education?"​

You: "Ahhh, wait a minute"​

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If you want this to be directed 80% at kids chances are 80% of kids are not gonna read anything if they are under 12.. they would most likely sign it as soon as they see something is to be signed...​

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The blue lettering I have bolded is perhaps what I think you are trying to get across...unless I am mistaken. *I believe it has been proven that people often "go-along" with what others are doing or deciding upon (within a group type setting). ​

The red lettering I had bolded it just something I thought I would pass along, for the sake of the drafting of the petition.​

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I do want us to continue moving forward with this despite our various differences. We have some similar and some completely opposite ideas and thoughts here but we will have to make a compromise on some things to reach some sort of agreement so we can fulfill our intended goal. ​

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I agree & for lack of a better example, I am reminded of a scene within the movie, "STAR WARS," where the rebel fighters had entered the narrow trench on the surface of the Death Star (inorder to bring it's destructive presence to an end). *Within the intense action, adrenaline-filled middle half of this particular scene, a rebel fighter is over-heard saying:​

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