Rams Looted in Cannon Defense

Arr said:
I'm sure they wouldn't mind if you changed things.
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Is there a reason that you would like to change things? Do you want potions and bayonets removed? I prefer to keep it the way it is since it was an original part of potco and tlopo is a recreation of potco. You will often see my comments on forums come on the side of keeping as much of the original potco as possible intact and I lobby for new content to be as isolated from the older parts of the game as possible. That said, I do want new content and think the developers did a good job on projects such as Hollowed Woods and Forsaken Shallows. Maybe there is room for expansion of Cannon Defense with new content but I hope that if they pursue that then they will isolate it, maybe an advanced Cannon Defense option when you enter the mini game?
 
Eric Sailcutter said:
Is there a reason that you would like to change things? Do you want potions and bayonets removed? I prefer to keep it the way it is since it was an original part of potco and tlopo is a recreation of potco. You will often see my comments on forums come on the side of keeping as much of the original potco as possible intact and I lobby for new content to be as isolated from the older parts of the game as possible. That said, I do want new content and think the developers did a good job on projects such as Hollowed Woods and Forsaken Shallows. Maybe there is room for expansion of Cannon Defense with new content but I hope that if they pursue that then they will isolate it, maybe an advanced Cannon Defense option when you enter the mini game?
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I just think cannon defense rewards should only be cannon rams.
 
Arr said:
Well it makes sense to just get cannon rams in cannon defense...
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I agree that it would have but since Disney chose to add a few potions and bayonets I support tlopo staying with that and am against changing it. To me it's the nonstop crashing that has prevented me from getting the one and only item that I want from CD, not the availability of other items.
 
Eric Sailcutter said:
I agree that it would have but since Disney chose to add a few potions and bayonets I support tlopo staying with that and am against changing it. To me it's the nonstop crashing that has prevented me from getting the one and only item that I want from CD, not the availability of other items.
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Would that be the rev and whats so good about it, I'm just curious.
I'm assuming you got the rare and famed rusty cutlasses already.
 
I don't see that it only makes sense to get rams from cd ... the only way to get them is that a Navy bloke left it behind when manning the cannons. So he could leave behind anything else he might carry.
 
squintz said:
Would that be the rev and whats so good about it, I'm just curious.
I'm assuming you got the rare and famed rusty cutlasses already.
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Revenant Ram increases the damage of the already highest DPS shot, fury shot, and then lets you shoot it without care by giving it infinite ammo which is useful on long ship runs where fury ammo could become a problem.
 
squintz said:
Would that be the rev and whats so good about it, I'm just curious.
I'm assuming you got the rare and famed rusty cutlasses already.
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Yes, the rev ram is the only one I want. It’s the best cannoneering ram because of its unlimited Fury ammo and +1 Fury since you get 3 shots of Fury while cannoneering. I found all the other rams I wanted sailing but the rev is CD exclusive. Maybe that’s a bit of a simple explanation but long winded ones are not really better.
 
Ned_Reddavis said:
Revenant Ram increases the damage of the already highest DPS shot, fury shot, and then lets you shoot it without care by giving it infinite ammo which is useful on long ship runs where fury ammo could become a problem.
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Fury is only the highest dps for cannoneering, it’s third for sailing broadsides. which owes to getting 3 shots with your cannon but only one for each cannon on broadsides. The rev ram is the best cannoneering ram, not that others aren’t fun to use.
 
Eric Sailcutter said:
Fury is only the highest dps for cannoneering, it’s third for sailing broadsides. which owes to getting 3 shots with your cannon but only one for each cannon on broadsides. The rev ram is the best cannoneering ram, not that others aren’t fun to use.
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This comment got me interested in weighted average per shot broadside damage. I'm not sure what you consider to be the top three rams for broadside DPS (let me know), but what I found was interesting. If you take the damage that your round shot will do multiplied by it's probably of being fired by a broadside cannon and add that with with the special broadside shot (if any) multiplied by that probability, you get the weighted damage of a shot being fired (effectively the average damage coming out of one shot of a broadside). Then if you were to multiply that by the amount of broadside shots your ship does then that gives the total average damage per broadside, but average damage per shot gets the point across. For an easy example, to find the minimum weighted damage of a max skull & crossbones ship will do with revenant ram: sum together the minimum damage of the fury shot times the probability it's fired and the minimum damage of a round shot times the probability of it being fired (0.5*1181+0.5*525)=853. Here's what I found using that calculation:


Maxed Ship TypeRamMinimum DamageMaximum Damage
Cajun
Firestorm571.351142.7
Fortune Hunter559.76251119.525
Haunted
Skull & Crossbones870.7151741.43
Priming
Copperhead1388.252776.5
Iron Priming
Copperhead1381.352762.7
Stormchaser(or Phantom)776.11552.2
Steel
Copperhead1400.862801.72
Skull & Crossbones885.81771.6
Fortune Hunter604.331208.66
Firestorm565.241130.48
Stormchaser830.231660.46
No upgrades721.61443.2


So based on this I would consider the top DPS broadside ships to be Copperhead, Skull & Crossbones, and Non-Upgraded ships in that order. And it seems like for all three of those types of ships the best ram to use is Steel! Although, Priming and Haunted are close seconds for Copperheads and Skull & Crossbones, respectively. And if you are using Firestorm it seems like Cajun is the way to go.

Now, all this data is based on the assumption that your broadside will fire exactly the proportion of round shots and special shots based on the max ship upgrade. So, if you were to not use Steel ram, and for example use Iron Priming on Copperhead, then yeah sometimes you will do more damage than Steel if you get lucky and have more explosive rounds than normal, in this case. However, using Iron Priming over Steel ram will net less damage overall in the long term.
 
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Ned_Reddavis said:
This comment got me interested in weighted average per shot broadside damage. I'm not sure what you consider to be the top three rams for broadside DPS (let me know), but what I found was interesting. If you take the damage that your round shot will do multiplied by it's probably of being fired by a broadside cannon and add that with with the special broadside shot (if any) multiplied by that probability, you get the weighted damage of a shot being fired (effectively the average damage coming out of one shot of a broadside). Then if you were to multiply that by the amount of broadside shots your ship does then that gives the total average damage per broadside, but average damage per shot gets the point across. For an easy example, to find the minimum weighted damage of a max skull & crossbones ship will do with revenant ram: sum together the minimum damage of the fury shot times the probability it's fired and the minimum damage of a round shot times the probability of it being fired (0.5*1181+0.5*525)=853. Here's what I found using that calculation:


Maxed Ship TypeRamMinimum DamageMaximum Damage
Cajun
Firestorm571.351142.7
Fortune Hunter559.76251119.525
Haunted
Skull & Crossbones870.7151741.43
Priming
Copperhead1388.252776.5
Iron Priming
Copperhead1381.352762.7
Steel
Copperhead1400.862801.72
Skull & Crossbones885.81771.6
Fortune Hunter604.331208.66
Firestorm565.241130.48
No upgrades721.61443.2


So based on this I would consider the top DPS broadside ships to be Copperhead, Skull & Crossbones, and Non-Upgraded ships in that order. And it seems like for all three of those types of ships the best ram to use is Steel! Although, Priming and Haunted are close seconds for Copperheads and Skull & Crossbones, respectively. And if you are using Firestorm it seems like Cajun is the way to go.

Now, all this data is based on the assumption that your broadside will fire exactly the proportion of round shots and special shots based on the max ship upgrade. So, if you were to not use Steel ram, and for example use Iron Priming on Copperhead, then yeah sometimes you will do more damage than Steel if you get lucky and have more explosive rounds than normal, in this case. However, using Iron Priming over Steel ram will net less damage overall in the long term.
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The #2 dps ship broadside belongs to the Stormchaser which I don’t even see in your post. I’ve always considered the Steel Ram to be the best ram for all ships except the firestorm where the Cajun Ram slightly beats it. I recently got the Haunted Ram and so tried it out on my Skull and Bones war frigate and found very little difference between it and the Steel which your calculations seem to agree with. Great post by the way.
 
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Eric Sailcutter said:
The #2 dps ship broadside belongs to the Stormchacer which I don’t even see in your post. I’ve always considered the Steel Ram to be the best ram for all ships except the firestorm where the Cajun Ram slightly beats it. I recently got the Haunted Ram and so tried it out on my Skull and Bones war frigate and found very little difference between it and the Steel which your calculations seem to agree with. Great post by the way.
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Yup I totally forgot about Stormchaser since you pretty much never see it around. I went ahead and edited my post's table to include that. I wanted to also mention that I tested round shots on a normal ship of mine and found it to not be exactly the damage that it would be if it used the round shot damage on the cannon skill tree, which is how I did those calculations. However, I still think that the damage numbers can be used empirically to compare between each other. Anyway, from what I can gather Stormchaser appears to be actually the 3rd best DPS ship broadside taking the spot of what I had previously said was just non-upgraded broadsides.
 
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Ned_Reddavis said:
Yup I totally forgot about Stormchaser since you pretty much never see it around. I went ahead and edited my post's table to include that. I wanted to also mention that I tested round shots on a normal ship of mine and found it to not be exactly the damage that it would be if it used the round shot damage on the cannon skill tree, which is how I did those calculations. However, I still think that the damage numbers can be used empirically to compare between each other. Anyway, from what I can gather Stormchaser appears to be actually the 3rd best DPS ship broadside taking the spot of what I had previously said was just non-upgraded broadsides.
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Interesting, I've sailed plenty of Stormchasers and Skull and Bones ships and it's been my experience that the Stormchaser's are quite a lot more powerful than the Skull and Bones. I feel something's a bit amiss.
 
Eric Sailcutter said:
Interesting, I've sailed plenty of Stormchasers and Skull and Bones ships and it's been my experience that the Stormchaser's are quite a lot more powerful than the Skull and Bones. I feel something's a bit amiss.
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Something was amiss as you expected. As I mentioned I was using the values for the damage on the cannon skill tree, and not how much the ships do. The shots from broadsides have noticeably different damage than the cannons and stormchasers are in fact gonna do more damage than skull and bones. I'm going to make a quick guide on this now, thanks for help and discussion on this.
 
Ned_Reddavis said:
Something was amiss as you expected. As I mentioned I was using the values for the damage on the cannon skill tree, and not how much the ships do. The shots from broadsides have noticeably different damage than the cannons and stormchasers are in fact gonna do more damage than skull and bones. I'm going to make a quick guide on this now, thanks for help and discussion on this.
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What's the crit% for Steel Ram?
Also, each thundershot is 3 cannonballs, each fury is 2 cannonballs
 
Reuven said:
What's the crit% for Steel Ram?
Also, each thundershot is 3 cannonballs, each fury is 2 cannonballs
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I haven't explicitly tested it, but I have done extensive tests with critical strike 3 on swords and if it works the same across every weapon then it should be 10%.
 
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