Discussion Revert the Copperhead Broadside Nerf - Patch v1.21.2

[Arr]

First of all, how did you make this equation of materials and difficulty all together? and if that's the case, the extreme amount of Copperhead material consumption should result a powerful ship which that's not the case in the game regarding the materials you require to build such ship.

Secondly, Bosses and ships are 2 different entities you can't just compare it to each other and if you do we still have Ship of the Line which in terms of sustainability and armour, it's at top of any other ship and we have to consider Battle-Royale with it's devastating pure explosive broadside, that by itself is already a high lvl boss battle which still can be dodged perfectly if you know how to sail so that decreases the level of difficulty to zero, and we have Boss type ships in the game such as Fleets or Queen Anne's Revenge.

Also you can solo most of the bosses in the game itself, it only takes longer time obviously and again you won't die if you know what you're doing.

Just because they nerfed copperhead and it can't one-shot a hunter doesn't mean it's not still overpowered against regular enemy ships, enough materials to upgrade your ship should be hard to get since these customized hulls will give you different ammo types that will make your ship overpowered against regular enemy ships. I doubt most know how to steer a ship well enough to avoid heavy damage against battle-royales and even hunters but if the majority do know then I guess the developers would have to tweak the ship ai again to make it more of a challenge, I also have doubts that most can solo the tougher boss and some might think it'll take too long like you said and that's probably why there are big groups attacking for example palifico. I remember in potco if I tried to solo the fleet I'd sink in a matter of seconds because those ships had such a long cannon range.

 

[TheReaperr]

Just because they nerfed copperhead and it can't one-shot a hunter doesn't mean it's not still overpowered against regular enemy ships, enough materials to upgrade your ship should be hard to get since these customized hulls will give you different ammo types that will make your ship overpowered against regular enemy ships. I doubt most know how to steer a ship well enough to avoid heavy damage against battle-royales and even hunters but if the majority do know then I guess the developers would have to tweak the ship ai again to make it more of a challenge, I also have doubts that most can solo the tougher boss and some might think it'll take too long like you said and that's probably why there are big groups attacking for example palifico. I remember in potco if I tried to solo the fleet I'd sink in a matter of seconds because those ships had such a long cannon range.

I didn't want to respond to this because you're just defining what ship upgrades are and you're just repeating what I said and it's proving my point that there are Ship boss battles but less in term of variety.

Lastly POTCO Copperhead on max upgrade had a 15% chance of explosives which it could be either 1 or Pure (Almost impossible to occur), that mechanic in my opinion is far superior than what we have today.

Also it doesn't take Too long to solo a high lvl boss like Palifico if you have a Famed gun, exmp Divine Pistol with 75 dmg, you can kill him solo less than a minute, and mid lvl bosses such as Darkhart can be 1 shotted and I've done this before.

Unless you want to add something new to the thread just don't repeat things over and over.

 

[Arr]

I didn't want to respond to this because you're just defining what ship upgrades are and you're just repeating what I said and it's proving my point that there are Ship boss battles but less in term of variety.

Lastly POTCO Copperhead on max upgrade had a 15% chance of explosives which it could be either 1 or Pure (Almost impossible to occur), that mechanic in my opinion is far superior than what we have today.

Also it doesn't take Too long to solo a high lvl boss like Palifico if you have a Famed gun, exmp Divine Pistol with 75 dmg, you can kill him solo less than a minute, and mid lvl bosses such as Darkhart can be 1 shotted and I've done this before.

Unless you want to add something new to the thread just don't repeat things over and over.

I wasn't really talking about dark hart just the newer bosses and of course you can kill dark hart in one shot because he isn't really meant for high level players with good guns that the developers might nerf like they did to grenades. I don't know if you can defeat palifico with a gun alone in one minute but I guess I'll take your word for it. We're all repeating things just like in the trading thread, I guess there isn't really a point in commenting about the copperhead nerf anymore because the developers are happy with how they nerfed it and according to truecrash so are a lot of people.

 

[TheReaperr]

I wasn't really talking about dark hart just the newer bosses and of course you can kill dark hart in one shot because he isn't really meant for high level players with good guns that the developers might nerf like they did to grenades. I don't know if you can defeat palifico with a gun alone in one minute but I guess I'll take your word for it. We're all repeating things just like in the trading thread, I guess there isn't really a point in commenting about the copperhead nerf anymore because the developers are happy with how they nerfed it and according to truecrash so are a lot of people.

All that I get from your message is nerf and nerf also speak for yourself Arr, Devs being happy with their update for Copper is a different story than a community being unhappy with it, There's no actual evidence of this big group of active players being positive about this change hence that's why I asked for an Official poll if there's any doubts regarding the current situation for Copperhead.

I'm not here to talk about different weapons in the game nor bosses therefore if you want to add something else regarding this situation, I'm done replying to your messages.

Good day.

 

[squintz]

Well they do give us materials that shouldn't be easy to get and if a storm chaser can actually sink a hunter with one broadside then they'll probably nerf storm chaser, yes we're overpowered but that shouldn't be the case when talking about high level bosses or hunters/warships.

I think part of the point of this overpower discussion is about balance. What does the staff mean when they say balanced? IMO, balance is very important in PVP/SVS when it comes to tools a player uses and to make the tools equally available and leveled to the player level and to promote player abilities with a level playing field. I get that. However, to proclaim that a majority people in pve want balance is an assumption and subjective observation which may not have merit.

In pve, it is mostly an individual endeavor with some team up if desired. Mobbing bosses which is a strong looters proclivity, and boss fighting as such, one would be hard pressed to find any PVE'r worried about balance. Quite the opposite, the quicker the boss goes down the better. In pve the goal is mostly get the highest and strongest weapon and armor possible for personal reasons. My reasons are so I can kill more enemies while questing and such.

If balance were an issue in pve, no one would be cheating or using 3rd party mods to game the system because the balance would be perfect. This game already has the best balancing for pve covering everything and that's called leveling. A level 20 can't use a level 30 weapon, period. A level 20 won't be able to kill a level 30 enemy by normal means period. Can a level 20 kill a level 30 enemy? Certainly. With a top level weapon they can use and plenty of time and ability a good player can do this. The exact same goes for pve sailing. No one should care if my ship is overpowered and I can sink a random hunter quicker or easier. It's my personal game experience in pve. The staff doesn't need to 'balance' my pve game specially if no one complains.

What we have here is imo a pvp issue only and perhaps the staff has no way to code separately for the different fractions of play. If that is true, they should say so and we could perhaps move on with a different understanding. However, with any forum on the internet, there will always be credibility issues.
First, I saw no forum questioning about balance directed to the pve community, second, the comment that there was plenty of input and complaints privately seems to deflect from the fact that there was no public poll or discussion to/for the pve community.
Third, my opinion is PVP is a smaller potion of the playing community. I'm referring to sailing svs and pvp as the same.

I'm all for whatever the staff can do to make pvp great again, but I'm never going to find acceptable some sort of balance rhetoric with the pve world when there is already a leveling balance in place. Don't nerf anything in pve just because pvp'rs complain about balance in pvp, it makes no gaming sense.

 

[Anthony Longshot]

After remaining silent throughout most of this now because fighting to be listened too is practically impossible, I have noticed a lot and one of the things I have noticed scares me if I'm totally honest.

(If this is removed then my point stands valid)

If your for the change and want the nerf to be what it is, you get treated respectfully, however when people like myself try and explain that it isn't what it should be (Especially in the armor category) then your going to get staff attack your comments, be biased against the players that have different opinions (Especially like Veteran players of Potco) No offence to the guy that started this thread but you did a good job, but other devs defending this thread by saying he isn't staff. As far as I'm aware he is WIKI Staff, Staff is Staff, Wiki for TLOPO is related to this game so he is your member of staff, so this vote is very much official. However, also noting what is scaring is that not 1 staff member is arguing against valid points about the copperhead, not 2 but 3 & Moderators. Now if you shy away from not being biased at this stage then there is no hope left.

This is how the copperhead is right now;
- Squishy, underpar to other ship upgrades.
~
-Back when Disney ran the operations it use to be Tanky, highest tier of all upgrades, slow.

So now in this case you refer this to "Balancing" With the current meta, data & performance of the Copperhead, where is the balancing of the materials to compensate for how much beating it's taken since vanilla? All because of a few SvS players complained because they couldn't SOLO a Copperhead? What happened to exploiting a ships weakness, in this case for a copperhead would be the Speed and the Turning rate. Back in the days of POTCO, people complimented how strong it was, but they still sunk them. Back then you PAID for what you got, now you're wasting your time, as I mentioned in another post you may as well just get rid of the ship all together, rather than see it like this.

For example, I tested with a friend, 3 gunners on a sloop, all fury, given 1 broadside of a copperhead, the damage output was so bad it took damage like a vanilla ship would (INCLUDING WITH TAKE COVER).

(If this is removed then my point stands valid staff have a biased point of view)

 

[John Macbatten]

If your for the change and want the nerf to be what it is, you get treated respectfully, however when people like myself try and explain that it isn't what it should be (Especially in the armor category) then your going to get staff attack your comments

I apologize if any of the comments made by staff have come off as attacks, although I have not participated much in this thread, I have been keeping up with it and what I have seen seems to have mostly been Truecrash explaining the reasoning for trying to make Copperhead more like POTCO.

be biased against the players that have different opinions (Especially like Veteran players of Potco)

We welcome feedback as always, but at the end of the day Staff are the ones who made the decision, and as we have stated before, we feel it was the best decision to be made, and as such we will naturally come off bias in defending it, because we support the position (There is no way to really avoid this).

No offence to the guy that started this thread but you did a good job, but other devs defending this thread by saying he isn't staff. As far as I'm aware he is WIKI Staff, Staff is Staff, Wiki for TLOPO is related to this game so he is your member of staff, so this vote is very much official.

To clear this up, the creator of this thread is NOT apart of TLOPO Staff. While they may work on the wiki, the wiki is a separate entity from us. This poll is by no means official in any capacity, but again we always welcome feedback and player polls like this. (But we appreciate their help with keeping things organized and keeping a great tool for the game alive).

However, also noting what is scaring is that not 1 staff member is arguing against valid points about the copperhead, not 2 but 3 & Moderators. Now if you shy away from not being biased at this stage then there is no hope left.

Again, as I said earlier, we as staff agree with this change (seeing as we implemented it in game).

So now in this case you refer this to "Balancing" With the current meta, data & performance of the Copperhead, where is the balancing of the materials to compensate for how much beating it's taken since vanilla?

We decided against a change in the cost of copperhead, because it is easier to get ship materials in TLOPO than it was in POTCO. In POTCO you could only get ship materials from hunters targeting you, and not by sinking other players hunters.


I hope this clears some stuff up for you

 

[TheReaperr]

@John Macbatten , so basically what I understand from your claims are the devs are happy with what they did and they're receiving the feedbacks of other players (Group of players for Copperhead revert/buff) as well, but they won't hear it or do something about it practically.

 

[John Macbatten]

@John Macbatten , so basically what I understand from your claims are the devs are happy with what they did and they're receiving the feedbacks of other players (Group of players for Copperhead revert/buff) as well, but they won't hear it or do something about it practically.

As stated earlier in the thread by Truecrash:

We also never stated we'd revert the nerf based on the poll, the nerf will be staying as-is since the TLOPO Copperhead is now equal to the POTCO Copperhead in terms of damage.

Also as said before, we get feedback from multiple areas (not limited to this thread), and from what we have seen so far we believe the decision to make the Copperhead damage output more like POTCO was the right decision, and we will be sticking by it.

 

[TheReaperr]

As stated earlier in the thread by Truecrash:

Also as said before, we get feedback from multiple areas (not limited to this thread), and from what we have seen so far we believe the decision to make the Copperhead damage output more like POTCO was the right decision, and we will be sticking by it.

I'd like to see these evidence if you don't mind, because what Davy claimed was a large group of Active players that are with this change but this platform which is the only platform for us players to check on is telling me otherwise.

 

[squintz]

After remaining silent throughout most of this now because fighting to be listened too is practically impossible, I have noticed a lot and one of the things I have noticed scares me if I'm totally honest.

(If this is removed then my point stands valid)

If your for the change and want the nerf to be what it is, you get treated respectfully, however when people like myself try and explain that it isn't what it should be (Especially in the armor category) then your going to get staff attack your comments, be biased against the players that have different opinions (Especially like Veteran players of Potco) No offence to the guy that started this thread but you did a good job, but other devs defending this thread by saying he isn't staff. As far as I'm aware he is WIKI Staff, Staff is Staff, Wiki for TLOPO is related to this game so he is your member of staff, so this vote is very much official. However, also noting what is scaring is that not 1 staff member is arguing against valid points about the copperhead, not 2 but 3 & Moderators. Now if you shy away from not being biased at this stage then there is no hope left.

This is how the copperhead is right now;
- Squishy, underpar to other ship upgrades.
~
-Back when Disney ran the operations it use to be Tanky, highest tier of all upgrades, slow.

So now in this case you refer this to "Balancing" With the current meta, data & performance of the Copperhead, where is the balancing of the materials to compensate for how much beating it's taken since vanilla? All because of a few SvS players complained because they couldn't SOLO a Copperhead? What happened to exploiting a ships weakness, in this case for a copperhead would be the Speed and the Turning rate. Back in the days of POTCO, people complimented how strong it was, but they still sunk them. Back then you PAID for what you got, now you're wasting your time, as I mentioned in another post you may as well just get rid of the ship all together, rather than see it like this.

For example, I tested with a friend, 3 gunners on a sloop, all fury, given 1 broadside of a copperhead, the damage output was so bad it took damage like a vanilla ship would (INCLUDING WITH TAKE COVER).

(If this is removed then my point stands valid staff have a biased point of view)

It should be noted, and I've learned the hard way, that EMOTE ICONS can also be considered as negative and trolling. People should perhaps keep that in mind when not responding in the written form.

 

[Davy Darkrage]

As far as I'm aware he is WIKI Staff, Staff is Staff, Wiki for TLOPO is related to this game so he is your member of staff, so this vote is very much official.

I know the lines are a bit blurry from the outside, particularly as there is overlap in staff and leadership between the various entities, but TLOPO, the forums, and the wiki are all run independently of one another and merely formed an alliance with each other for the sake of the community. They were all created at wildly different times by different people. I don't blame anyone for conflating them but it's not entirely correct to call a forum or wiki staff member TLOPO staff.

Now if you shy away from not being biased at this stage then there is no hope left.

The staff of the various entities are ultimately community members too. Maybe I'm just being dense, but I don't really understand or agree with the line of thinking that they aren't allowed to voice their opinions on a particular matter simply because they are staff members. And it certainly doesn't make much sense to suggest they should be barred from holding an opinion at all. I don't really see how that would even be possible.

It should go without saying that they are asked to leave their biases at the door when conducting their duties as staff (meaning, for example, they must not punish someone unfairly for having a different opinion), but outside of that they are allowed to participate in much the same way as anybody else.

(If this is removed then my point stands valid staff have a biased point of view)

It won't be, and for transparency we've removed a grand total of 9 of the 314 (so far) posts in this thread. And of those nine, seven were just personal attacks and two had nothing to do with the topic at all. Surely if we were removing dissenting opinion then this thread would be a fair bit smaller?

On a personal and very unofficial note, it seems to me that this issue is contested at best so I generally imagine a decent group of people are going to be upset no matter what happens (or doesn't happen).

 

[TheReaperr]

@Davy Darkrage , Would you be kind enough answering my question? I can't really connect the dots for this decision, was the motive only because of SvS community regardless of the SvE/PvE and if so why?

Is there any evidence that you guys took a feedback of 230,000 players for this and if so can you provide it with the dates?

As I'm writing this there's only 380 online active players and in my past week observation the average of active players was roughly the same and I've been taking their opinion for this matter most of them pointed out to be a good thing for SvS Only and their priority for mat runs is no longer a Copperhead, also it's no longer worth it upgrading to a Copperhead.

Thank you.

 

[John Macbatten]

Is there any evidence that you guys took a feedback of 230,000 players for this and if so can you provide it with the dates?

We have never stated that we took the feedback of 230,000 players. To gather the feedback we have gotten over the past 8 months (since this change was introduced into the game), and the many months before hand of players asking for this change would simply be too much work.

 

[TheReaperr]

We have never stated that we took the feedback of 230,000 players. To gather the feedback we have gotten over the past 8 months (since this change was introduced into the game), and the many months before hand of players asking for this change would simply be too much work.

From What I've understood during this period of 8 months you've been gathering all of this feedback from many players which I can say or at least I believe most of them are inactive hence the solution for the current situation is not really compatible?

 

[Kate Goldwalker]

Well, I can answer part of that concern of inactivity....

I myself do not play every day. I log in several times a week though. I have a member of my guild who only logs in once in a blue moon, but she is not inactive either.

Recently a friend of mine made a return to the game after months of being gone due to an injury in real life.

Just because you have an account on TLOPO doesnt mean you have to play every day to be considered active either.

So, out of all the registered, no they aren't on every day. Some of them probably have quit for whatever reason, or are taking a break.

 

[TheReaperr]

Well, I can answer part of that concern of inactivity....

I myself do not play every day. I log in several times a week though. I have a member of my guild who only logs in once in a blue moon, but she is not inactive either.

Recently a friend of mine made a return to the game after months of being gone due to an injury in real life.

Just because you have an account on TLOPO doesnt mean you have to play every day to be considered active either.

So, out of all the registered, no they aren't on every day. Some of them probably have quit for whatever reason, or are taking a break.

I understand what you're saying Kate but there's a difference between an Active player, a casual player and an inactive one and in most of the games, the game's involving the active community rather than the passive ones if the game is for it's players obviously.

 

[ArabellaDrummond]

To quote Davy Darkrage:

Anyways, with the concession that the last page or so of posts have been pretty even-tempered, I'd like to remind everyone that vitriol is not okay and will result in a thread reply ban or having this thread locked. Leave the personal jabs out of it and be kind to each other.

For that reason, this thread has been locked.