Discussion Revert the Copperhead Broadside Nerf - Patch v1.21.2

Do you want the Copperhead upgrade reverted?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 57 39.6%
  • Not fully reverted, but buffed.

    Votes: 22 15.3%
  • No.

    Votes: 65 45.1%

  • Total voters
    144
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Before, a copperhead was shooting it’s ammo like a skulls and bones would with only 15% chance while it felt like it was 95% of the time. Which to say tlopo had its math wrong.

So imagine these explosive broadsides shooting 6 explosives while it’s supposed to be only 15% chance (which may I clarify is extremely low for a reason the way Disney intended it to be) and not being able to properly dodge them because in your screen you did but in the enemy ship you didn’t.

It was a 15% chance. Copperhead packed as much of a punch as it did even at 15% because explosive does 12 times the damage of round shot, so it doesn't require many of them to have an impact.

Copperhead was overpowered when it came to sinking the majority of ships and like truecrash said that combined with copperhead being nearly unsinkable there's really no threat in sve for the copperhead unless you go up aganist a tally-ho or you're a bad steerer.

I understand what you're saying here, but in my personal opinion I don't think there's much to be said about threats in sve regardless of upgrade type. That's why armor isn't very important to me for sve- I grinded out coppers for the sole reason of having the best damage output and now it sits behind storm chaser (which has several other advantages). I agree that an adjustment needed to be made, I just think it was a bit too heavy handed, that's all.
 
It is also worth mentioning copperhead gives a massive health increase to the ship. This should not be ignored, because you're not only paying to upgrade your broadsides, which seems to be the more important part of discussion. The hp benefit to copperhead is great for both SvS and PvE. You won't get one shot from other copperheads or NPCs such as battle royales, corsairs, and juggernauts. But to have a ship with the most damage and most health, on top of a 3 knot speed boost that wasn't in potco, is that really fun to play in a SvS or PvE setting? Is it really that fun to use a ship that will sink almost all the the ships in the game? Does one not enjoy the challenge of playing the game?

SvS before the update was pretty much 99% copperheads. For those who have SvSed any time in the past year, one would almost only see copperheads. SvS lacked diversity of ships, and it's not really fun to play when your ship gets instantly sunk in one shot. It wasn't practical to play anything but copperhead because of this. This lack of ship diversity was a problem, but now that copperhead was nerfed, you can see a lot more diversity in ships used. Go and SvS! You will see this! A lot more light sloops, war sloops, stormchasers, fortune hunters, war sloops, etc. are used now. Even Copperheads still, but not a lot like before. SvS should be about teamwork (sailors and gunners), rather than heavy or sole reliance on broadsides.

I've had my fair share of upgrading and sailing copperheads as well as other types of ships. There are plenty of other ships to sail, and most people would sail a fortune hunter ship for mat runs. It's evident from looking at public ships most people use that for mat runs. There are still people who will use copperhead for mat runs, and they still do enough damage (from my observation). The time required it takes for a mat run on a copperhead still is not long. There are also many other options for ships to use on loot runs and mat runs, and many other sailors have been using this, including me, who prefers a stormchaser.

To say that copperhead needs a buff would require being ill-informed about the game. Without proper experience in the area of the game, making such a claim is pretentious and absurd.
 
tlopo bias towards Svs community confirmed
You need to read my post, instead of worrying about your one shot broadside, which
It was a 15% chance. Copperhead packed as much of a punch as it did even at 15% because explosive does 12 times the damage of round shot, so it doesn't require many of them to have an impact.



I understand what you're saying here, but in my personal opinion I don't think there's much to be said about threats in sve regardless of upgrade type. That's why armor isn't very important to me for sve- I grinded out coppers for the sole reason of having the best damage output and now it sits behind storm chaser (which has several other advantages). I agree that an adjustment needed to be made, I just think it was a bit too heavy handed, that's all.
i think everything I said went over your head, a copper has 15 % of shooting out an explosive. But in tlopo Version it shot out as much as a skulls and bones did with around 50-95% of the time. I don’t even think you have seen the video clearly showing how op they were, I also said I didn’t agree with the nerf but I hope it was temporary. I think you need to read more carefully before adding an opinion that was already answered.
 
i think everything I said went over your head, a copper has 15 % of shooting out an explosive. But in tlopo Version it shot out as much as a skulls and bones did with around 50-95% of the time. I don’t even think you have seen the video clearly showing how op they were, I also said I didn’t agree with the nerf but I hope it was temporary. I think you need to read more carefully before adding an opinion that was already answered.

I understood your post. My previous reply wasn't clear. I was just trying to say that coppers were not shooting explosive 50-95% before the nerf. There is a visual difference between round shot and explosive, you can tell them apart, and before the update they were definitely at 15%. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not denying that they were OP in svs, I've played plenty of it before.
 
Hello Charles, there are a few things you are right and wrong in this situation. You see the way the game is rn is beta... meaning there are a ton of bugs to be fixed. Tlopo staff is not a multi billion company like Disney is. The nerf Tlopo did was enough to balanced the game. Before, a copperhead was shooting it’s ammo like a skulls and bones would with only 15% chance while it felt like it was 95% of the time. Which to say tlopo had its math wrong. But instead of fixing it, they added one explosive shot per broadside. It’s a temporary nerf (I hope). There are more issues that Tlopo staff needs to get right before fixing the one explosive per broadside.. like, fixing the armor of the ship. The armor of the ship protects the hull from being damaged 100% effectively. But the thing is, the side armor doesn’t increase property the way it should when the ship is being upgraded. For example, imagine having a regular war sloop, and making it a skulls and bones lvl 6... now while the health of the ship improves, the side armor stays the same as it was when it was a regular ship, meaning it can get broken through easy to reach the maximum capacity of damage. Which made explosive shots broadsides op when it shot 4. It was gg with that broadside. Another bug Tlopo needs to fix before fixing your precious broadsides, is latency. So the way this works is, imagine seeing a broadside coming at you, you want to dodge it, and you do. But in the other players screen, you didn’t. It’s a latency. So imagine these explosive broadsides shooting 6 explosives while it’s supposed to be only 15% chance (which may I clarify is extremely low for a reason the way Disney intended it to be) and not being able to properly dodge them because in your screen you did but in the enemy ship you didn’t. Like you said, what is the point of making a fortune hunter or even the skulls and bones a lvl 6 upgrade which may I add is the second highest health armor ship available, when it gets one shotted everytime by a copper head. I’m also adding here, even if you are a lvl 6 copper head you can still get one shotted by another lvl 6 copper head. It was stupid. You wanting to fix a single problem, while it involves multiple, just shows your ignorance may I add. Coppers were a problem to the game, mainly in svs, because they were broken as hail. I am finished. For you to see how bad these one shots were and how ‘fun’ it was to face a copper head.. I am going to link a video I made showing how coopers were before the nerf upgrade.
enjoy 😊
I'll just quickly reply to this wall of text in four points, since it would be difficult to separate them clearly.
1. I already said I am perfectly ok with a nerf to copperhead. I just believe the current nerf makes it useless.
2. By saying there are other "more important" bugs the staff have to fix. Is not a productive way to enter this discussion.
3. The request your asking about fixing damage/hull/and % are all problems that the team throws under "Maintenance" and are always being optimized in the background. They aren't things that can/should be requested.
4. Insulting me by calling me "Ignorant" is quite rude and uncalled for, I haven't been unreasonable, shut down, or called anyone here names thus far. I hope you can give me the same respect as you do [should] give everyone else contributing to this open discussion.
5. Once again, regarding the video, I ask you to re-read to my first point.
 
i think everything I said went over your head, a copper has 15 % of shooting out an explosive. But in tlopo Version it shot out as much as a skulls and bones did with around 50-95% of the time
I think you have a misunderstanding of what 15% means. It's a chance per round coming out of a broadside to produce an explosive shot rather than a round shot. If you have a war brig, for example, you shoot out 12 shots per broadside, and each of those 12 shots individually have a 15% chance to be an explosive. Compounded that means you had an 86% statistical chance at producing at least one explosive out of the broadside. With the update now it is an 86% chance to produce a single explosive shot. They did not 'do their math wrong', that is just how ships with special shots have always worked.
 
I encourage you to read my latest post.
I assume you mean the above post? I only want to say that there have been lots of exaggerations here in this thread, I’ve sailed Copperheads in tlopo and on Copperheads too and I never found them to be as op as has been suggested, in fact I am not much of a fan even if they are reverted but as is they are out for me. I was considering getting one when the 4th ship slot opened since I have the Iron Priming Ram but now the 4th slot is open the Copperhead is nerfed, thank you developers for nerfing it before opening the 4th slot, I would have been livid had it gone the other way. I have not done much SvS and didn’t see Copperheads in action there much so I accept that they may have been inappropriate for SvS. What that says to me is that things are not as they were in potco and should be corrected. I see this nerf as an even further departure from potco and so am against it.
 
I assume you mean the above post? I only want to say that there have been lots of exaggerations here in this thread, I’ve sailed Copperheads in tlopo and on Copperheads too and I never found them to be as op as has been suggested, in fact I am not much of a fan even if they are reverted but as is they are out for me. I was considering getting one when the 4th ship slot opened since I have the Iron Priming Ram but now the 4th slot is open the Copperhead is nerfed, thank you developers for nerfing it before opening the 4th slot, I would have been livid had it gone the other way. I have not done much SvS and didn’t see Copperheads in action there much so I accept that they may have been inappropriate for SvS. What that says to me is that things are not as they were in potco and should be corrected. I see this nerf as an even further departure from potco and so am against it.
Like I said on my post above, it’s a temporary nerf, I don’t agree with it either, but it was necessary for the time being, they have to fix armor and latency first to bring back how copeprs were before, besides tlopo version of copper heads were about 95% chance to get explosives out of a broad side when it’s supposed to be less than skulls or storm chasers, Disney put it to 15% chance for a reason after all, if you watch the video above that I linked, it clearly shows how op a copper was in tlopo, what was the whole point of mat running for hours to get a skulls and bones or even a copper head lvl 6 when they can just get one shotted with one copper head broadside. Sorry you miss your one shot mat runs
 
I think you have a misunderstanding of what 15% means. It's a chance per round coming out of a broadside to produce an explosive shot rather than a round shot. If you have a war brig, for example, you shoot out 12 shots per broadside, and each of those 12 shots individually have a 15% chance to be an explosive. Compounded that means you had an 86% statistical chance at producing at least one explosive out of the broadside. With the update now it is an 86% chance to produce a single explosive shot. They did not 'do their math wrong', that is just how ships with special shots have always worked.
I think you misunderstand me or we don’t understand stand each other. If you peak at the first 10 seconds of thrash video I linked, I hope you can see how op coppers were. Let me correct, how op they were IN TLOPO. It wasn’t like that in Potco. So yes tlopo staff does have their math wrong, they have they’re math wrong on salvage too but it is better now than from the 2 latest updates. If you want your op broadside to come back just make your own version of the game where you can get a copper head all you want, and one shot everyone. Win all the time. Make it 10x more broken than how tlopo had it.
 
I'll just quickly reply to this wall of text in four points, since it would be difficult to separate them clearly.
1. I already said I am perfectly ok with a nerf to copperhead. I just believe the current nerf makes it useless.
2. By saying there are other "more important" bugs the staff have to fix. Is not a productive way to enter this discussion.
3. The request your asking about fixing damage/hull/and % are all problems that the team throws under "Maintenance" and are always being optimized in the background. They aren't things that can/should be requested.
4. Insulting me by calling me "Ignorant" is quite rude and uncalled for, I haven't been unreasonable, shut down, or called anyone here names thus far. I hope you can give me the same respect as you do [should] give everyone else contributing to this open discussion.
5. Once again, regarding the video, I ask you to re-read to my first point.
With all do respect. I think you misunderstood everything I said, I’ll clarify, the reason tlopo version of coppers were op, was because of multiple things, like latency, aka you obviously dodging a broad side but you actually didn’t in the enemy’s point of view, and ships hull. I didn’t say there are “more important bugs” that need to be fixed. I said “there are more issues that tlopo needs to get right before taking out the nerf”. I called you ignorant because all you were talking about was your precious copper head wanting to one shot ships, talking about there should be a major difference between skulls and copper, major means one shots because skulls are already capable of that in mat runs. It’s more about just bringing back coppers to how they were in potco, it’s about balancing everything. And for now the game is balanced by removing those one shot coppers. Charles, I suggest you read carefully before assuming I’m saying rude things.
 
I think you misunderstand me or we don’t understand stand each other. If you peak at the first 10 seconds of thrash video I linked, I hope you can see how op coppers were. Let me correct, how op they were IN TLOPO. It wasn’t like that in Potco. So yes tlopo staff does have their math wrong
If I'm understanding you right, what you mean by 'wrong math' is the fact that multiple explosives could come out as opposed to just one maximum like it was in POTCO (so I hear, I can't remember it that well). In that case, yeah I suppose their math was wrong, although that's more of a coding tweak than a math calculation error, but that's neither here nor there. I would agree that being sunk by one good copperhead broadside felt bad and lacked counter play if it connects, so I am glad that it was toned back while maintaining decent damage for SvE still.

If you want your op broadside to come back just make your own version of the game where you can get a copper head all you want, and one shot everyone. Win all the time. Make it 10x more broken than how tlopo had it.
I never said anything like this. Please try to stay respectful.
 
Like I said on my post above, it’s a temporary nerf, I don’t agree with it either, but it was necessary for the time being, they have to fix armor and latency first to bring back how copeprs were before, besides tlopo version of copper heads were about 95% chance to get explosives out of a broad side when it’s supposed to be less than skulls or storm chasers, Disney put it to 15% chance for a reason after all, if you watch the video above that I linked, it clearly shows how op a copper was in tlopo, what was the whole point of mat running for hours to get a skulls and bones or even a copper head lvl 6 when they can just get one shotted with one copper head broadside. Sorry you miss your one shot mat runs

Respectfully, you are confusing the percentage of explosives fired in a broadside with the percentage of broadsides containing explosive. A 15% chance means that 15% of all the broadside cannonballs fired are explosive. It does not mean that only 15% of your broadsides contain explosive and the rest do not. The only difference now is that the explosives are capped at 1 per broadside.
 
Like I said on my post above, it’s a temporary nerf, I don’t agree with it either, but it was necessary for the time being, they have to fix armor and latency first to bring back how copeprs were before, besides tlopo version of copper heads were about 95% chance to get explosives out of a broad side when it’s supposed to be less than skulls or storm chasers, Disney put it to 15% chance for a reason after all, if you watch the video above that I linked, it clearly shows how op a copper was in tlopo, what was the whole point of mat running for hours to get a skulls and bones or even a copper head lvl 6 when they can just get one shotted with one copper head broadside. Sorry you miss your one shot mat runs
Like I said on my post above, it’s a temporary nerf, I don’t agree with it either, but it was necessary for the time being, they have to fix armor and latency first to bring back how copeprs were before, besides tlopo version of copper heads were about 95% chance to get explosives out of a broad side when it’s supposed to be less than skulls or storm chasers, Disney put it to 15% chance for a reason after all, if you watch the video above that I linked, it clearly shows how op a copper was in tlopo, what was the whole point of mat running for hours to get a skulls and bones or even a copper head lvl 6 when they can just get one shotted with one copper head broadside. Sorry you miss your one shot mat runs
  1. What makes you think that this change is temporary? The release notes do not say that and no one but you have said that to my knowledge.
  2. When I sailed Copperheads they did not emit explosives at a similar rate to a Skull and Bones' Fury, they did shoot about 15% explosives which seemed right at the time. Is there a chance that it was different in SvS for some unknown reason? One example of a large amount of explosives does not show anything, with a 15% chance there would be occasional 100% yields although 0% would be more likely and has been my experience.
  3. I don't do mat runs at all and am more a loot run guy but my regular ship for said runs is a Skull and Bones War Frigate so I'm not missing anything at all. I do in fact pretty much do one shot loot runs with that ship and enjoy them very much.
Please do not think that I have made comment on this issue for personal gain, I don't regularly sail Copperheads and they are not my thing. I want the game to be more like potco is my motivation here.
 
  1. What makes you think that this change is temporary? The release notes do not say that and no one but you have said that to my knowledge.
  2. When I sailed Copperheads they did not emit explosives at a similar rate to a Skull and Bones' Fury, they did shoot about 15% explosives which seemed right at the time. Is there a chance that it was different in SvS for some unknown reason? One example of a large amount of explosives does not show anything, with a 15% chance there would be occasional 100% yields although 0% would be more likely and has been my experience.
  3. I don't do mat runs at all and am more a loot run guy but my regular ship for said runs is a Skull and Bones War Frigate so I'm not missing anything at all. I do in fact pretty much do one shot loot runs with that ship and enjoy them very much.
Please do not think that I have made comment on this issue for personal gain, I don't regularly sail Copperheads and they are not my thing. I want the game to be more like potco is my motivation here.
Ok this is tlopo BETA. Meaning the full game release is not out yet. Meaning stuff that are out now and how they’re out now is NOT permanent. And no I don’t think there were differences in coppers to what they were in svs, tbh that would be weird and silly. I think you need to look at my video that I’ve posted to see how unbalanced and broken coppers were in tlopo. One shotting ships.
 
If you want the game more like Potco, then idk why you aren’t focusing on latency or proper upgrades... Or range in ship visions without them disappearing. You seem to only focus on those one shots copper heads. All the things I listed above made copper heads op and made this nerf happen. It involves more than those one shot broadsides
 
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