Request REVIVE POTCO (Chapter 2)?

Should a TLOPO/REVIVE POTCO alliance be struck?


  • Total voters
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Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
Hello.

I have been accused, mostly by friends I did have on this forums, of being an alarmist...someone overly paranoid about the various what-ifs with POTCO being remade (as still a property of Disney but too, unfairly abandoned). As we all know, TLOPO is advancing itself today beyond measure to which we all can be proud of in so far as talent, skill, and sheer drive. However...

...there is a dangerous decision I feel TLOPO itself is making; a lack of a public position and stance for any sort of contingency plan or "PLAN B" (if Disney itself were to ever intervene).

My friend, whether TLOPO admits it or not there are ways to assure a legitimate PLAN B effort itself can be organized and remain in compliance with TLOPO's core goal and principle. This request I do present today...is for an alliance to be struck between TLOPO and past organizers of the REVIVE POTCO push. *The goal of such an alliance would be to incorporate the backing of TLOPO's community in such a way to where Disney would be more apt to at least listen to a legitimate request made (and on behalf of TLOPO) to not have all TLOPO pirates face the gallows. Such an alliance struck would give TLOPO more leverage to gain Disney's "ear" besides the voice of individuals or a group of individuals Disney has never dealt with before. More leverage on the side of all of us pirates equates to greater freedoms and not to mention...another day on our calendar to live.

Your (forums) thoughts? Please share your opinion and engage too your decision to the above poll. For more information about the past REVIVE POTCO effort, please review here: https://piratesforums.co/threads/revive-potco-revisited-tales-be-told.9167/

Thank ye! ;)
 
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The Crew

TLOPO Staff
Hello.

I have been accused, mostly by friends I did have on this forums, of being an alarmist...someone overly paranoid about the various what-ifs with POTCO being remade (as still a property of Disney but too, unfairly abandoned). As we all know, TLOPO is advancing itself today beyond measure to which we all can be proud of in so far as talent, skill, and sheer drive. However...

...there is a dangerous decision I feel TLOPO itself is making; a lack of a public position and stance for any sort of contingency plan or "PLAN B" (if Disney itself were to ever intervene).

My friend, whether TLOPO admits it or not there are ways to assure a legitimate PLAN B effort itself can be organized and remain in compliance with TLOPO's core goal and principle. This request I do present today...is for an alliance to be struck between TLOPO and past organizers of the REVIVE POTCO push. *The goal of such an alliance would be to incorporate the backing of TLOPO's community in such a way to where Disney would be more apt to at least listen to a legitimate request made (and on behalf of TLOPO) to not have all TLOPO pirates face the gallows. Such an alliance struck would give TLOPO more leverage to gain Disney's "ear" besides the voice of individuals or a group of individuals Disney has never dealt with before. More leverage on the side of all of us pirates equates to greater freedoms and not to mention...another day on our calendar to live.

Your (forums) thoughts? Please share your opinion and engage too your decision to the above poll. For more information about the past REVIVE POTCO effort, please review here: https://piratesforums.co/threads/revive-potco-revisited-tales-be-told.9167/

Thank ye! ;)
You can leave us direct feedback on our website here too if you'd like.
 

Eric Sailcutter

Pirate Lord
I’m thinking that for the most part people from that movement have by now joined tlopo, another remake, or moved on and are no longer a cohesive group. I feel that those that have moved on are unlikely allies and the animosity between tlopo and another remake also precludes them as allies leaving us with what? I do appreciate the concept of a “plan B” though and wonder if tlopo has enough original content or is capable of putting together enough original content to make a functional game that doesn’t infringe on Disney’s copyright in any way. I feel that a few hundred more supporters would be unlikely to influence Disney at all and their motivations will always be money and brand protection, nothing more. So I would suggest that a reasonable plan B could be a pirate game that doesn’t violate copyrights. Such a game would seem possible with the foundation of assets and organization that tlopo has now built. I don’t say tlopo should be working on such a game directly now but that it could be a plan for what ifs and I also suggest that in this interest to develop more original content that is isolated in the tlopo game from the original potco content is a good idea.
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
I’m thinking that for the most part people from that movement have by now joined tlopo, another remake, or moved on and are no longer a cohesive group. I feel that those that have moved on are unlikely allies and the animosity between tlopo and another remake also precludes them as allies leaving us with what? I do appreciate the concept of a “plan B” though and wonder if tlopo has enough original content or is capable of putting together enough original content to make a functional game that doesn’t infringe on Disney’s copyright in any way. I feel that a few hundred more supporters would be unlikely to influence Disney at all and their motivations will always be money and brand protection, nothing more. So I would suggest that a reasonable plan B could be a pirate game that doesn’t violate copyrights. Such a game would seem possible with the foundation of assets and organization that tlopo has now built. I don’t say tlopo should be working on such a game directly now but that it could be a plan for what ifs and I also suggest that in this interest to develop more original content that is isolated in the tlopo game from the original potco content is a good idea.
It's important for myself to say this but I need to understand more about how people "feel" about this idea (with myself writing the justification/basis for such an idea, very soon) per the poll results and comments to this thread...but, I would like to respond to a few things you touch upon while I do have the chance to respond.

Below is the list and status update of REVIVE's key organizers:
1. LEO (whereabouts unknown)
2. Jade O'Hayes (whereabouts unknown)
3. Davy Darkrage (Forums Admin.; TLOPO dev)
4. Pretty Polly (active within the 'Sea of Thieves' game/community)
5. Johnny Sea Slasher/Dentface (active Forums member/TLOPO staff)
6. Eliza Creststeel (active Forums member)
7. Captain C Ray (unfortunately, deceased; we miss you, Ray!)
8. Zia Badncool (occasionally logs onto the Forums)
9. Shamus The Brute (no explanation needed)

As everyone can tell, it would not be far-fetched to do what we can to encourage past organizers (whom haven't been active within the TLOPO community) to encourage them to return back. Heck, some are even on TLOPO's staff! The rest? :confused: *With permission gained from forums Administrators, I request that each be contacted individually (via the email address they provided to establish an account here) to see if they would agree to return back to the forums to once again become active...or at least give an opinion about whether they feel REVIVE should help TLOPO, or not. NOTE: This is not a practice the forums regularly does but...given the forums fate is so heavily tied now to TLOPO's fate...I would think such action could be done if Disney were to ever intervene, causing the need for "all hands on deck!"

New (TLOPO) content:
Fair use, as it pertains to copyright, honors new content. The problem becomes, how often and for what purpose said content is used...within the bigger picture of everything used. (I am taking this info. from this link: https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html). Hence, even with TLOPO adding new content into the remake itself it must be upon the basis of how proportional it remains (in comparison to 'copyright content') and as well for what specific purpose. Since it is a good thing TLOPO is including new content ;), there too must be a reason for it for Disney to consider. In other words, TLOPO could get away with saying new content is per "educational purposes" but then too the burden of proof must be on TLOPO to show it is for said (exact) purpose. Damaging to the educational argument is that TLOPO has permitted everyone to download the game to play TLOPO which is contrary to the argument of TLOPO remaining a "educational purpose" alone and only for a few people. *Please let me know, here, if anyone is confused about this.

More from myself within the near future, about all of this. :) As always, I encourage everyone to add their opinion to the poll above this thread and to which is attached.
 
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Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
Thank you kindly but, I do not play TLOPO. There are reasons for this (one of them being for the very purpose/goal behind what this thread requests).

To all forums members and TLOPO:
In truth...which I know ye can handle...the video shared below parallels exactly the level of defense TLOPO currently has (in regards to a level of 'public' awareness, preparation, presentation and argument in how staff/devs may need to justify TLOPO to Disney on any given [or random] day).

Note: I mean no offense by this.

*The request of this thread concerns itself with a means for REVIVE POTCO organizers to serve as official mediator between Disney and TLOPO (if the moment ever came for Disney to order the progression of TLOPO to stop/for TLOPO to desist). To reiterate, this thread is not to suggest that moment will certainly come to pass! Rather instead, this thread is suggesting a contingency plan (or 'Plan B') needs to be decided upon ahead of time and prior to any action taken against TLOPO if for no other reason than to ease concern and livelihood of the TLOPO community in lieu of transition.

Here and today, I am asking TLOPO to endorse then trust in a contingency plan which involves the experience and skill of REVIVE POTCO (given the group's past correspondence, engagement, and familiarity with Disney). Please understand, REVIVE POTCO has an distinct advantage over other groups/organizers/a stand-alone TLOPO contingency plan. This is because those whom were REVIVE POTCO organizers
< would not > be introducing themselves to Disney for the first time! Let me repeat this but convey it in a different way. ;)

It is of my opinion that if TLOPO chose to recognize REVIVE POTCO as the official group to formulate strategy on behalf of TLOPO to Disney, far greater leverage would occur for the benefit of the TLOPO community if TLOPO would do so (as opposed to TLOPO staff/a different group since Disney 'does not know' whom they would be dealing with given it would be everyone else - with the exception of REVIVE POTCO - 1st time in contacting Disney).

The above ^ premise serves the main purpose for this thread. As such, it is so requested for TLOPO to endorse and the TLOPO community itself to consider. (There remain some 'pretty cool' justification to strategies which could be shared, by at least myself, if you pirates would just grant me the opportunity/chance to do so on this thread - per interest gauged to the poll itself). :flag1:
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
https://www.reddit.com/r/toontownrewritten/comments/73r2gn Hehe, you see! Us big time python bois were what made disney tired of keeping up, they couldn’t handle da heat! Read dis post about Disney bro, they could care less about tah laww Poe, too much effort to keep up! We roamin free

WE MANDATORY!
Thanks for the read and that article touches upon things many of us have already talked about - on this forums (most are non-TTR specific though with some things not even talked about yet because pirates...would rather live in the moment).

Chances are, no other REVIVE POTCO folks/organizers will step-up to participate again - in so far as community efforts go. Hence, you mates have only myself (and yes, I actually prefer it to 'not' to be that way). Since the results of the poll reflects already how (highly) unpopular this request is...I offer TLOPO my help but too, I offer only for a brief time. As such, I will keep this thread open but eventually will request to have it locked (per lack of interest).
 
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Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
For those whom voted nay (or anyone else), may I understand the why behind said reasoning...given none of you, thus far, had even made an attempt to share why. *Is it because the request itself is a "defensive" measure? Or, did you vote no only because of me?

What if there was a way for an "offensive" measure to be taken to not only strengthen TLOPO's player base but also too...TLOPO's longevity as a viable cause (and poster child for said cause)? Ye see, there are directions TLOPO could pursue if the remake itself look beyond the smaller picture of just providing a remake of Pirates of The Caribbean Online.
 

Menacing

Buccaneer
For those whom voted nay (or anyone else), may I understand the why behind said reasoning...given none of you, thus far, had even made an attempt to share why. *Is it because the request itself is a "defensive" measure? Or, did you vote no only because of me?

What if there was a way for an "offensive" measure to be taken to not only strengthen TLOPO's player base but also too...TLOPO's longevity as a viable cause (and poster child for said cause)? Ye see, there are directions TLOPO could pursue if the remake itself look beyond the smaller picture of just providing a remake of Pirates of The Caribbean Online.
Ay homie I responded to da thread, not everybody is required to give their opinion big dawg! Maybe they don’t went to reply cuz they dont wanna get sucked in a black hole! In addition they probs dont wanna get shamed by da brute!
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
Ay homie I responded to da thread, not everybody is required to give their opinion big dawg! Maybe they don’t went to reply cuz they dont wanna get sucked in a black hole! In addition they probs dont wanna get shamed by da brute!
Kinda hard to "shame" when there is_no Name & Shame tolerance (policy) on this forums. ;)
 

Bart Gunshot

Site Founder
I was going to write out my reasonings, but decided against it. So against my better judgement here I go. I'm just not entirely sure what your goal is with this post, though I can fairly accurately guess given your past posts. Just a disclaimer I haven't read everything. You yourself have said that besides you, all of the former Revive POTCO organizers are either inactive or now members of TLOPO staff. Even if Revive POTCO were to regroup I'm confused on the purpose of such a group.

Given your past posts I can only assume you wish for this group to formally contact Disney executives to receive some sort of "green light" or permissions? It's just a bad idea. It would be naive to think that people at Disney aren't at the very least aware of unauthorized fan remakes of their closed MMOs. To actually recognize this as a company would potentially open up all kinds of legal issues for them. They would essentially be setting a precedent that it is okay to use their intellectual property without recourse. You may argue that is what they are doing right now, however ignoring it and not formally recognizing it as a company likely cushions them what they are liable for.

Also given Revive POTCO's past I'm not even sure how far you could get or helpful it could actually be. Revive POTCO was a great effort and really all anyone had at the time, but ultimately failed to save POTCO. I'm sure it was simply ignored by many of the people that an effort was made to contact, and it seems most of the people who did reply were unhelpful, seemingly just as confused or disappointed, etc.

If TLOPO gets shut down it will be through a cease and desist, and it would be insane to not comply. There's really no sense in preparing for it either. POTCO is at the hands of Disney as it always has been, and just like Revive POTCO failed to save POTCO it would fail to save TLOPO. That being said there's so many reasons why Disney might not do this. There are potential legal defenses for "repairing" malfunctioning software, however the laws are not clear and the debate wether or not it includes software as a "service", and whether or not POTCO was a "service." It could be too much trouble. It could cause a PR nightmare, especially with the more popular TTR. But it doesn't matter. As I said its at the mercy of Disney.
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
I was going to write out my reasonings, but decided against it. So against my better judgement here I go. I'm just not entirely sure what your goal is with this post, though I can fairly accurately guess given your past posts. Just a disclaimer I haven't read everything. You yourself have said that besides you, all of the former Revive POTCO organizers are either inactive or now members of TLOPO staff. Even if Revive POTCO were to regroup I'm confused on the purpose of such a group.

Given your past posts I can only assume you wish for this group to formally contact Disney executives to receive some sort of "green light" or permissions? It's just a bad idea. It would be naive to think that people at Disney aren't at the very least aware of unauthorized fan remakes of their closed MMOs. To actually recognize this as a company would potentially open up all kinds of legal issues for them. They would essentially be setting a precedent that it is okay to use their intellectual property without recourse. You may argue that is what they are doing right now, however ignoring it and not formally recognizing it as a company likely cushions them what they are liable for.

Also given Revive POTCO's past I'm not even sure how far you could get or helpful it could actually be. Revive POTCO was a great effort and really all anyone had at the time, but ultimately failed to save POTCO. I'm sure it was simply ignored by many of the people that an effort was made to contact, and it seems most of the people who did reply were unhelpful, seemingly just as confused or disappointed, etc.

If TLOPO gets shut down it will be through a cease and desist, and it would be insane to not comply. There's really no sense in preparing for it either. POTCO is at the hands of Disney as it always has been, and just like Revive POTCO failed to save POTCO it would fail to save TLOPO. That being said there's so many reasons why Disney might not do this. There are potential legal defenses for "repairing" malfunctioning software, however the laws are not clear and the debate wether or not it includes software as a "service", and whether or not POTCO was a "service." It could be too much trouble. It could cause a PR nightmare, especially with the more popular TTR. But it doesn't matter. As I said its at the mercy of Disney.
I appreciate your reply. It matters (and at least your not 'trolling' this thread [and being allowed to] like previous posts here have attempted).

It's wrong to assume I am making this request for TLOPO to contact Disney. While this is what I prefer, I had lost support for that argument long ago. When you have time, you should re-read the posts coming from myself here (the ones 'not' in response to the troll). Anyway, after contemplating my intentions to be of help...I can explain more but NOT if trolls frequent here and moderators don't hold them "on-topic." *Seems a bit like this always happens, to just about every thread I write now.
 

squintz

Pirate Lord
I appreciate your reply. It matters (and at least your not 'trolling' this thread [and being allowed to] like previous posts here have attempted).

It's wrong to assume I am making this request for TLOPO to contact Disney. While this is what I prefer, I had lost support for that argument long ago. When you have time, you should re-read the posts coming from myself here (the ones 'not' in response to the troll). Anyway, after contemplating my intentions to be of help...I can explain more but NOT if trolls frequent here and moderators don't hold them "on-topic." *Seems a bit like this always happens, to just about every thread I write now.
"I can explain more but NOT if trolls frequent here and moderators don't hold them "on-topic." *Seems a bit like this always happens, to just about every thread I write now. "

In regards to that comment, you shouldn't feel a target. I don't know of a single thread that didn't go off topic in the tlopo game forums in almost 3 years. And those that don't is because they are closed to responses or replies. Even innocently, every thread has an off topic comment.

I get the feeling you would just like to have some breathing space and get the 800 pound disney gorilla off tlopo's back by coming to some clear agreement with the disney that they won't pull the plug somehow. That it's okay to continue working at the game. I think it really bugs you having the disney uncertainty hanging over tlopo.
 

The Crew

TLOPO Staff
That being said there's so many reasons why Disney might not do this. There are potential legal defenses for "repairing" malfunctioning software, however the laws are not clear and the debate wether or not it includes software as a "service", and whether or not POTCO was a "service." It could be too much trouble. It could cause a PR nightmare, especially with the more popular TTR. But it doesn't matter. As I said its at the mercy of Disney.
Even though we do not have Disney's direct permission to use the Pirates Online game files, brand, etc; we clearly state that Disney cannot be held liable because we are a completely separate entity from one another. There's no merit to hold them liable, they are not the developers of TLOPO. TLOPO is the developer of TLOPO. If something were to occur and somebody had to be liable, it'd be us; not Disney.

Per our Terms of Service, Disney cannot be held legally liable for any kind of incident that could occur as a result of code included in our software (even if it's code that Disney had wrote which we reverse engineered). We specifically state the following to protect them:

TLOPO Terms of Service said:
The Legend of Pirates Online ("TLOPO") is a fan-made recreation of The Walt Disney Company’s Pirates of the Caribbean Online. By using TLOPO, you certify that you understand that TLOPO is not associated with The Walt Disney Company and/or Disney Consumer Products and Interactive Media (or the affiliates of either party) and that you release The Walt Disney Company from any and all liability for any personal loss caused to you by the use of TLOPO.
 
I don't think that we should contact Disney about this.

For no other reason than it won't do anything.

We exist completely at the mercy of Disney right now. Disney is actively benefiting from us by us continuing to spread good PR around Pirates if the Caribbean and possibly encouraging people to buy potc merch or potentially influence someone enough to buy tickets their theme parks.

They also currently have the benefit of receiving this completely free. They don't have to pay for upkeep anymore.

You best believe the minute that TLOPO crosses the line of active players where the money made would outpace the upkeep cost Disney will be looking at us very very closely.

In that event they could choose to issue a cease and desist and lease the game out to another company to be relaunched with all of our progress lost.

Best case scenario would be if Disney decided to attempt to take on the current devs of TLOPO as the staff who relaunches the game but I feel that is very unlikely.


Let's also not forget how much Disney cares about it's image. If TLOPO were to become a derogatory mark on PotC or even worse Disney itself they would not hesitate to shut us down.

Say for example there were major allegations of child predators using the game for nefarious purposes or,allegations the game was being used to plot attacks, shootings, or to sell illicit substances that gained media attention, Disney would NOT allow our continued existence no matter what we said or did prior or after.

It seems outlandish but it's nowhere near impossible. These are the reason chat moderation is so important in game and the reason we will never have an open chat system. TlOPO has to stay as close to Disney's image as possible if we want to remain open.

I don't think there's anything we could say to Disney that would sway them in any direction.Maybe if the devs were to form a game company before D-day (haha, get it?) Disney could consider a dead with them to maintain the game under their wing but until then we're just a bunch of ants under their boots. They won't squish us unless we become a pest
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
...I think it really bugs you having the disney uncertainty hanging over tlopo.
;) It really does. What surprises me is that not enough people feel the same way. This is alarming to myself given the level of disappointment every one had experienced when POTCO was shuttered (despite a voice screaming from us which declared, 'please no').
I don't think that we should contact Disney about this...

We exist completely at the mercy of Disney right now...
  1. Again...just to be clear...this thread is NOT about contacting Disney! *While I have tried my best to suggest this, nobody will step-up to openly support this approach/strategy. As such, such a hard-line approach has cost me a great deal of trust and respect (online) amongst you pirates. WHY? Because I call for us doing the "right" thing. Regardless, this approach will not be heard so I am forced to present/to share other options.
  2. Are you pirates happy :high5: to be @ the mercy of Disney? Isn't TLOPO and every other remake guilty of putting us right back into the same scenario as POTCO...where Disney calls *all* shots (in lieu of our gaming fate)? This is a repeat of everything all over again. Through REVIVE POTCO, we understood this! We predicted, as a group, the code of POTCO would get out (if Disney failed to listen) and every pirate and their dog would rush to become "king-of-the hill," so to speak, to remake POTCO. Today I resolve, through the request presented to this thread, to devise strategy where the control over OUR piratey fate is ours alone. Short of gaining Disney's permission to use their copyright work of POTCO (which none of you want to agree with myself in doing), I do have an idea but I am a bit reluctant now to share given everyone either misunderstands my intentions for the purpose behind this thread or a pirate wants a public chance ;) to throw smack around.
The choice (per the poll) is up to you mates! I will ask to have a lock applied to this thread next coming Thursday, unless interest via the poll declares otherwise.
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
4 days left (until this thread will become locked). Currently, per the poll results, the score is 5 yays to 14 nays.

I ask again and for the last time, can you pirates at least trust me? What purpose do you think I have stuck around this long for (in comparison to majority of other 'Revive' organizers). Most importantly, can you trust unequivocally in the "forever?"

Thank ye. ;)
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
As more people come forward to vote no ('without explaining' as well their own reasoning and logic towards said vote), ask yourself why. Also...ask yourself why TLOPO never publicly mentioned EFF nor ESS before. *You see, they haven't thought that far ahead. :smh:

This thread's request and purpose is to assist them, along with the TLOPO community, to understand that TLOPO can make an impact beyond the nostalgia...and towards a legitimate argument in support of the reviving of games.
 

Shamus The Brute

Site Founder
As more people come forward to vote no ('without explaining' as well their own reasoning and logic towards said vote), ask yourself why. Also...ask yourself why TLOPO never publicly mentioned EFF nor ESS before. *You see, they haven't thought that far ahead. :smh:

This thread's request and purpose is to assist them, along with the TLOPO community, to understand that TLOPO can make an impact beyond the nostalgia...and towards a legitimate argument in support of the reviving of games.
In addition, I had thought of something today (during myself watching the movie, 'Gone with The Wind,' [it's true]) which further can add to the defense of TLOPO if Disney ever began to consider to take action.

*How many TLOPO devs/staff can say this?
 
;) It really does. What surprises me is that not enough people feel the same way. This is alarming to myself given the level of disappointment every one had experienced when POTCO was shuttered (despite a voice screaming from us which declared, 'please no').
  1. Are you pirates happy :high5:to be @ the mercy of Disney? Isn't TLOPO and every other remake guilty of putting us right back into the same scenario as POTCO...where Disney calls *all* shots (in lieu of our gaming fate)? This is a repeat of everything all over again. Through REVIVE POTCO, we understood this! We predicted, as a group, the code of POTCO would get out (if Disney failed to listen) and every pirate and their dog would rush to become "king-of-the hill," so to speak, to remake POTCO. Today I resolve, through the request presented to this thread, to devise strategy where the control over OUR piratey fate is ours alone. Short of gaining Disney's permission to use their copyright work of POTCO (which none of you want to agree with myself in doing), I do have an idea but I am a bit reluctant now to share given everyone either misunderstands my intentions for the purpose behind this thread.
I'm not particularly happy about it but realistically I don't think there's anyway to change that short of Disney asking the devs to continue under their wing.

I don't think Disney would ever willingly let us use the copyright for potco without very heavy supervision from them which could be a blessing or a curse .

If we truly wanted to take control of our own destiny the Devs could take the time and what they have learned to create a new and unique game similar to potco but completely different so that the rights are completely in their hands (like yooka laylee did)
 
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