Tragic Failure Due to Colliding Egos

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ElizaCreststeel

Wiki Staff
I've read over both sides of the recent .com / .co split and it's done nothing to repair the big knot in my gut over this. After spending the past couple of years tolerating the attitude of the original piratesonlineforums and the multiple suspensions for merely stating an opinion (often defending the game) or asking questions; I was praying for a better site to get past the negativity and issues.

I was invited by Treasurer to the original site and fell in love with it. Not only did I visit almost daily but it's on our guild page's link list and I constantly recommend it to members and friends - even considered asking to host some material here.

Sadly, in cases like this there is really no clear right or wrong - but I do believe that more could have been done to rectify instead of tearing completely apart. I doubt NEITHER side gave consideration to how we, the actual users would react. It is unfair for the two of you to ask all 1,000+ of us to decide between you.

So, what I'm left with is either going back to the original .com where so much damage has been done or come here - where I feel like I'm disrespecting Treasurer for the time and effort he put in and his kind invite. As a guild GM, I already deal with enough - coming to a fan site should not be a drama.

If this thread survives the day, I do hope you folks will simply state your feelings - NOT TAKE A SIDE, but let these guys know they need to work it out.
 
You can still be on either forum, that's your choice. However, since my opinion is that Treasurer is lying, it wouldn't feel right to go there and pretend everything is fine.
 
Until the dust settles or things get repaired, I removed the link from our guild site. I won't discourage members from using either but I don't want to take sides.
 
I am in agreement with you. I went to bed last night thinking about this and woke up with it on my mind still. I began thinking of the impact to the members of the forum/s, even more so after reading Treasurer's post in the accouncement.

One question popped into my mind after reading it, and I dont know if anyone else has thought of it. Considering that there are tons of staff in the forum/s, when any issues, ideas, possible rule changes, etc were to come up, did they get together, discuss and vote on these things?

See, I play another game called Tribal Wars. Can be extremely intense. You are members of tribes there, kinda like guilds, but there is a hierarchy that works much differently than in guilds. Its a war game, which involves sending attacks and support to others. Rules are made in the tribes, alliances and NAPs (non aggressive pacts). These things are always voted on by the tribe council, with the final ruling on tougher issues made by the Duke.

To me it would have made sense if there were issues regarding the development and rules/control of the site, that the staff would come together and discuss and decide upon the best solution for the forum/s and the members. This was created to bring together a community of pirates, and to me the community should always be put first and foremost above ones own feelings/ego.

I'm staying with the content regardless of the domain name. Reason: my friends, the community, they are here with the content. I know some are joining the other one also and that is fine with me. As long as they are here, they know where to find me also.

My hope: that this situation will resolve and the communities will become one again. That everyone will remember to put te community first and work together to make it better.
 
Seeing as Treasurer's new site is now short on staff members, I would hazard a guess at no, none of the staff members knew about it.
 
What has developed serves as a good "reminder" in consideration of how (or how not) to handle the dynamics of conflict in a group-type setting.

The time I have spent studying for a Business degree in the past has taught me one invaluable & important lesson; DO NOT invest your time & money in a "partnership" situation where the lack of a 3rd individual is unavailable to assist during moments of conflict.

Currently, I work for a significant-sized company that "used" to be affliliated with a much larger & powerful corporation. The company made a decision to SPLIT away from the corporation & therefore, had to establish it's own identity to where everything had to be changed (i.e., the company logo, mission statement, future direction & business goals, etc.).

Personally, I feel that the same should have developed here! If both forums initially appeared to be different rather than similar to each other, then the mass confusion & divided feelings that has developed amongst the pirates that truly matter here (a.k.a., the 'members') would not have been as severe.
 
Good advice, although however a bit late as this forum was already in partnership, and decided to split. As for a third individual, I believe that here there is much more than one more individual to help out the forum in these times.
 
As treasurer had shown his disinterest in the forums over his 2-3 months after resigning, Davy had just recently brought up buying a domain. This was not done over Ego, Unhappiness, Mistrust, Anger, or to Spite Treasurer. This was done because Treasurer had nothing to do with the site anymore and as such we the Admins decided that this was a logical move. Treasurer was told while throwing his fit that he did not have to step down that things could be worked out, but because his vote was nullified to the three of us not agreeing with him he no longer wanted the position as he felt ganged up on or that he was being undercut.

Treasurer had just recently told Davy he would like to come back but not as a regular member but as a Head Admin along side Davy so that he would be someone who could call the shots instead of vote it over between admins... the same reason he left because we had an issue with a few things he had strong feelings about. To anyone else i would hope that sounds a bit crazy as Davy holds us as equals not as his folks to do his bidding lol.
I'm sorry for any confusion or that any of your are disheartened with us over the decision... we were just trying to make it a better place
I will not bash Treasurer as i really have nothing left to say, or any other members that are trashing my name at the moment over there I'm just trying to tell you why we made the decision we made and hopefully as a community we will in fact make it through this as you all hope we are trying to do.
 
Ty Johnny for answering the one question that had plalgued me all day. ;)

I'm glad to know that the staff had and always will come together as a group to make beneficial decisions regarding the forum.

I just wish things had worked out differently and we still be one community, not two. :(
 
Mak pretty much said all I wanted to say. People will think what they please but nobody will ever know all that's transpired, so it's hard for anybody to make a concrete judgement, and I can understand that.

@Eliza:

It was never our plan to split. We didn't know there was going to be a split until it happened.

As for your suspensions, I have always told anybody they may contact me if they feel any situation on the forum was handled poorly. Rules are rules, but I want everyone to be happy here and nobody should be punished for sharing their opinion. Unfortunately, I can't see every single thing that goes on here, so sometimes things don't get dealt with properly.

You're correct to say I didn't consider how anybody would react to a split, because I had no prior indication one would occur. If you've read anything I said, you know I'm asking nobody to chose between us. You can visit both communities.

This doesn't have to be drama, just visit and continue using the forums as normal. That's the quickest way to make this all get better.

To repeat a bit of what Mak said:

Treasurer left us a few months back. Earlier this week, he sent me a message detailing his interest in coming back. He said he would return under his terms. His terms were that he and myself would be in a new tier called "Masters." He wanted Masters to have complete control over the administration and the ability to overrule their decisions. Every few months, he wanted to trade off between him and I being the Master, so that the Master could overrule everyone else's decisions.

After him leaving us by his own doing for a few months, I would not have him returning under complete control. Star and Mak have been loyal, and I view them as equals when it comes to making decisions here, I look for their input on everything. The idea that he wanted to return like none of that happened and have complete control, I found ridiculous. When he left I told him he would be able to resume his staff position here if he wished in the future, and I said so with a good heart. It was my intention to keep my word, but he would return as a regular admin under my conditions, not his own. Worried that he would use the .com against us if I disagreed, we switched to .co before we planned to negotiate the terms of his return.

I guess provoked by the switch, he ended up using it against us as I predicted, and no negotiations ever happened.
 
OMG, JMak ... You have just finally dropped the splash of cold water on our heated faces; heated from the confrontation.

THAT WAS THE REAL STORY THAT WE ALL NEED TO HEAR, ALL ALONG.
Pay attention please PiratesForums community, the truth has been revealed, right there!

Now we know the real story as to why we needed to move on, from one address to the other, and it just makes sense that without Treasurer's involvement, this entire site had to find another domain name. As for power division, in democracy, there has to be a split of power. Voting is one way to do it. If Treasurer would not agree to this term to begin with and decided to walk away, then there was absolutely no ground for him to come back and expect the same term again. That is why it was not possible for Davy and Admins to agree on that term. Davy has been just all along to share authority with the other Admins, and they intend to do it that way, which is also the right thing to do in decision making.

Thank you JMak, that was the one of the best explanation to clear up all confusion. And just about all my burden has been taken away because we know this now.
 
Worried that he would use the .com against us if I disagreed, we switched to .co before we planned to negotiate the terms of his return.

I guess provoked by the switch, he ended up using it against us as I predicted, and no negotiations ever happened.

Too me this sounds like Treasurer was more focused on his own pride and oppion then the democracy and well being of this community. I guess you just saved the democracy Davy! Thank you!
 
Gents, thank you for the clarification.

Johnny, I hope others won't be offended when I say that I needed to hear that from you. Despite my positive experiences with Treasurer and Davy, I felt that I could not rely completely on each of their versions of the situation.

I could see both sides of the equation because I am in a similar position. Some time ago, I resurrected the dormant Pirates Online Wikia and over a year of work and some assistance, brought it to where it is today. But, during the past few months, I have effectively stepped down letting the new admins run the show. Since then I have come to accept that I am no longer in control, but that said - should the Wikia veer dramatically away from its designed function, I could not just let it go. I would fight for it.

So, with that in mind. I do think that Treasurer in stepping away did release control. I hope he can come to grips with that. It doesn't take away anything from the efforts he made at all. He made that choice.
 
And thank you, Davy, to finally revealing what was going on behind the closed door. All questions and bantering happened because or lack of understanding of what really happened. And I understand that unless you really had to, or were put under pressure of Treasurer's side of story (which contained a blaming part), you would rather not reveal any of these. And that you'd rather do the transfer quietly and peacefully. But it turned out to be like this and it is what it is now. So all we could do now is mend, heal and recover the damage that has been done. Hopefully this community can understand and there are only minor questions left that should not affect too much anymore, and we all can move forward.

We appreciate your willingness to split the power that you have even though as a site owner, developer and funder, you do not have to. And we value JMak and Star's opinion as well to represent us. You all have our support!
 
I see the .com/.co differences like yahoo and google. They are both similar in ways but they are very much different. Although people may have one they prefer and use more often there is nothing wrong with using both.
 
As treasurer had shown his disinterest in the forums over his 2-3 months after resigning, Davy had just recently brought up buying a domain. This was not done over Ego, Unhappiness, Mistrust, Anger, or to Spite Treasurer. This was done because Treasurer had nothing to do with the site anymore and as such we the Admins decided that this was a logical move. Treasurer was told while throwing his fit that he did not have to step down that things could be worked out, but because his vote was nullified to the three of us not agreeing with him he no longer wanted the position as he felt ganged up on or that he was being undercut.

Treasurer had just recently told Davy he would like to come back but not as a regular member but as a Head Admin along side Davy so that he would be someone who could call the shots instead of vote it over between admins... the same reason he left because we had an issue with a few things he had strong feelings about. To anyone else i would hope that sounds a bit crazy as Davy holds us as equals not as his folks to do his bidding lol.
I'm sorry for any confusion or that any of your are disheartened with us over the decision... we were just trying to make it a better place
I will not bash Treasurer as i really have nothing left to say, or any other members that are trashing my name at the moment over there I'm just trying to tell you why we made the decision we made and hopefully as a community we will in fact make it through this as you all hope we are trying to do.

Makes sense to me. I see no fault here.
 
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