Would you want a Ship of the line as a possible player ship?

Would you want a ship of the line as a player ship?


  • Total voters
    218

Captain Jack Truesilver

Notorious Pirate
Personally, I'd rather see Chinese junks, clippers, carracks, caravels, and/or xebecs. Maybe schooners and/or bomb vessels too. Basically, I'd like to see more ship types in general (and I know the developers would have to start from scratch for all models save for the carrack). As fun as that may be to think about, however, there is this to consider (and it applies to both ships of the line and all of the other ship classes I just listed):


With regards to ships of the line, I feel like the thing that makes them unique is that only the Navy can sail them. I doubt many pirate ships in history were ships of the line, either. They also so overpowered in the game...wouldn't the ability for us regular players to sail them (no matter how difficult it might be to attain) just render sailing incredibly boring? Where would the challenge be at that point? Would the developers have to create ships of the line for the Navy and EITC (and maybe the undead) for open sailing? Would they also have to then come up with even more powerful ship types for treasure fleets and material runs? Where do we draw the line? And what about The Goliath for the Black Pearl Boss Battle? Would that need to be upgraded to an even larger, unknown class as well?
 

Sarah Darkmonger

Swashbuckler
Sailing is incredibly boring in TLOPO-era, every combination of ship and hull upgrade has been done, everything has been seen already, at least in 10 separate instances. The "skill" is entirely devoid in a place where the AI might as well not even shoot deck guns, and the broadside cannons are just shotgun spreads with only the odd explosive hit ever being dangerous, a war sloop being invincible by "hugging" the side of npc ships simply by being so low that the ships overshoot.

And yet with all this, a shocking 43% of people as of this post are saying "no" to the easiest to implement content we have available in a situation where development time is limited and spread out. Yeah sure I too would like more classes of ships and more types of upgrades (ones that give higher stats but no broadside ammo changes maybe?) but that' takes time and effort, compared to the Sotl, which would take very little effort being fully functional on PotCO test bar the lack of repairs and upgrades, which the thread already has proof that the upgrades are already there.

We really shouldn't be throwing such easy (and actually intuitive compared to "lets dump another red weapon in) content like this, out of a fear that will never be realised unless its added and tested, acting as if we cant do balancing patches afterwards.
 

Roger-Daniel

Pirate Master
Sailing is incredibly boring in TLOPO-era, every combination of ship and hull upgrade has been done, everything has been seen already, at least in 10 separate instances. The "skill" is entirely devoid in a place where the AI might as well not even shoot deck guns, and the broadside cannons are just shotgun spreads with only the odd explosive hit ever being dangerous, a war sloop being invincible by "hugging" the side of npc ships simply by being so low that the ships overshoot.
SOTL doesnt really fix any of this, it's just adding a bigger, uglier ship to the game. The hype will last maybe 2 weeks at the very most unless TLOPO decides to make it very difficult to get instead of just buying it for 300k gold. But doing something like that will take a large amount of time and effort, which also leads into the second point ig
43% of people as of this post are saying "no" to the easiest to implement content we have available in a situation where development time is limited and spread out.
compared to the Sotl, which would take very little effort being fully functional on PotCO test bar the lack of repairs and upgrades, which the thread already has proof that the upgrades are already there.

We really shouldn't be throwing such easy (and actually intuitive compared to "lets dump another red weapon in) content like this, out of a fear that will never be realised unless its added and tested, acting as if we cant do balancing patches afterwards.
the devs have already said that adding SOTL to the game is a lot easier said than done, as your post clearly shows.
"it isn't as simple as a few small tweaks and then plugin and play."

- The best dev
SOTL suffers from the same issues that makes the carrack so difficult to implement. Also, we're getting carrack, we don't need sotl. It simply does not fit in with the current player ships at all. Id rather the devs put that time and effort into making all new ships that aren't hideous
 

Sarah Darkmonger

Swashbuckler
the devs have already said that adding SOTL to the game is a lot easier said than done, as your post clearly shows.
I can assure you that adding SOTL to the game is a lot easier then adding another ship that would have to be entirely designed from scratch, simply due to assets already being available, which is an undeniable fact they are there. The Sotl is there, it doest need to be modelled, a new ship does.

I doubt the Carrack, though I have no idea why people think part of an islands terrain/geometry is the best solution for a new ship, would be immune to your "2 weeks of hype" either, and would require more effort to implement then a ship that has already sailed under player command on the PotCO test server. The SotL can also be implemented in such a way to have a new niche, being much larger and a known dedicated warship. Whilist I cant picture what a carrack is wanted to do that is not covered by the brig/galleon/frigate trifecta already.

As for the appearance of the sotl, that is entirely subjective and each person can have their own opinion. Mine being the reverse in that I like the SoTL and found the carrack wholely dislikable.
 

Captain Jack Truesilver

Notorious Pirate
Sailing is incredibly boring in TLOPO-era, every combination of ship and hull upgrade has been done, everything has been seen already, at least in 10 separate instances. The "skill" is entirely devoid in a place where the AI might as well not even shoot deck guns, and the broadside cannons are just shotgun spreads with only the odd explosive hit ever being dangerous, a war sloop being invincible by "hugging" the side of npc ships simply by being so low that the ships overshoot.

And yet with all this, a shocking 43% of people as of this post are saying "no" to the easiest to implement content we have available in a situation where development time is limited and spread out. Yeah sure I too would like more classes of ships and more types of upgrades (ones that give higher stats but no broadside ammo changes maybe?) but that' takes time and effort, compared to the Sotl, which would take very little effort being fully functional on PotCO test bar the lack of repairs and upgrades, which the thread already has proof that the upgrades are already there.

We really shouldn't be throwing such easy (and actually intuitive compared to "lets dump another red weapon in) content like this, out of a fear that will never be realised unless its added and tested, acting as if we cant do balancing patches afterwards.
I can see where you're coming from, but I still have to ask (and forgive me if I've misunderstood what you were trying to say)...

How does giving players a larger ship class change anything about the NPC ships being too easy a challenge? Given the level of power that a ship of the line has, wouldn't it just make sailing even less of a challenge and even more boring?
 

Sarah Darkmonger

Swashbuckler
I can see where you're coming from, but I still have to ask (and forgive me if I've misunderstood what you were trying to say)...

How does giving players a larger ship class change anything about the NPC ships being too easy a challenge? Given the level of power that a ship of the line has, wouldn't it just make sailing even less of a challenge and even more boring?
You've misunderstood slightly, though I would agree that player access to the most powerful ship class of the era would make combat easier.

When I mention that skill is lacking in sailing, I mean that the NPCs essentially having no AI leads to the "hold down right turn the entire trip and you'll likely never get hit" method, which is so undeniably effective that there is no reason to sail any different and the gameplay becomes stale, building on my point that sailing is boring and lacks variety.
The Sotl wont make sailing much different for that gameplay, but at the very least its something easy (comparatively) to implement and adds some variety to the little that there currently is.
 

Misha

Forum Mod
The Sotl wont make sailing much different for that gameplay, but at the very least its something easy (comparatively) to implement and adds some variety to the little that there currently is.
See, that's the funny part. Ship of the Line is by no means easy to implement. The seldom times they have been used for GM events, they were noticeably weaker then any of the other warships. They lack an impressive broadside with the same count as a Galleon, they lack the speed, being slower than every other class of ship, they lack the health pool for such an enormous target that can be hit from miles away with little effort, and more.

Atop of everything I just mentioned, they are horribly buggy, unbalanced, and have a plethora of issues regarding their model, the playstyle that could be invoked from them EVER being released, and just a general distaste due to how poorly they are designed for player use.
 

Captain Jack Truesilver

Notorious Pirate
You've misunderstood slightly, though I would agree that player access to the most powerful ship class of the era would make combat easier.

When I mention that skill is lacking in sailing, I mean that the NPCs essentially having no AI leads to the "hold down right turn the entire trip and you'll likely never get hit" method, which is so undeniably effective that there is no reason to sail any different and the gameplay becomes stale, building on my point that sailing is boring and lacks variety.
The Sotl wont make sailing much different for that gameplay, but at the very least its something easy (comparatively) to implement and adds some variety to the little that there currently is.
Well, thank you, I appreciate you clearing that up. However, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you about including the ship of the line in the game, then, both because it worsens the original problems with sailing you've mentioned and also because of the reasons which @Misha has laid out in the post above.
 

Sarah Darkmonger

Swashbuckler
I don't think that'll happen.
I think that it may break the game, and I think it's just too OP.
Arent we in a beta? shouldn't we be breaking the game now, testing things, as a beta test is intended for?
As for being overpowered, Copperhead upgrade was probably worse, but they balanced that.

Something buggy in a test environment is no excuse, rather it should be encouraged now so you can actually resolve the issues.
Something being overpowered is a non-factor in an environment where we can patch and balance things.

Wait, are people trying to use these as excuses to not introduce the SotL, but how would any new ship possibly not be buggy and if you want it to be even worthwhile considering, it must have a niche, ie something it does better/different then the current available ships, which leads perfectly into it being as much potential for balance issues as the Sotl.
No wonder sailing has become so stagnant, with mindsets like these. You'll never introduce any new content with this constant "fear" of it .
 

Roger-Daniel

Pirate Master
Wait, are people trying to use these as excuses to not introduce the SotL, but how would any new ship possibly not be buggy and if you want it to be even worthwhile considering, it must have a niche, ie something it does better/different then the current available ships, which leads perfectly into it being as much potential for balance issues as the Sotl.
No wonder sailing has become so stagnant, with mindsets like these. You'll never introduce any new content with this constant "fear" of it .
I think most people's fears are that they will no longer feel special if everyone has one, and everyone will have one. Things like treasure fleets, warships and even devs bringing them out for events will not be the same if people can just own a sotl for themselves. Theres a lot of complaining about everyone using the same stuff on the open ocean and not enough diversity, but if a sotl is added it will only make that worse with everyone using it. People just like it because it's bigger, and bigger equals better, right? I am a massive advocate for sailing content, but this ain't it chief
 

JessieTT

Honorable Pirate
I don't know why people are bringing up a topic that was originally put up on the forums a few years ago, seeing as the issue has apparently been addressed. With that being said, I don't see why not to add SOTL, if they add other ships.

I understand in terms of balance, SOTL would most likely be insanely good in terms of time to kill other ships, bordering on overpowered. The reality is though, that the TLOPO devs have shown themselves to want to not only add new superficial content that embodies artificial difficulty, but also alter the core of POTCO and the balance with it. Just look at the Copperhead nerf, which is evidence of the TLOPO team balancing something because it is overpowered, so it stands to reason that they would balance SOTL accordingly (although the balance is seriously questionable.)
...So clearly the balance of the SOTL isn't the issue.

A lack of ship diversity has been brought up in this thread over the years. I personally don't see that. If they balance SOTL the way that they balanced things like Copperhead, than in theory, SOTL would also have it's presumably massive drawbacks compared to its massive killing power in this hypothetical scenario and thus make players still use a variety of ships. I may be in the minority of people saying this, but the current state of sailing is probably the most diverse it has ever been, looking at it analytically. You can abuse the hitbox of the Sloop and incomprehensibly bad AI of ships to get free kills on what should be the most difficult ships in the game. The Brig is used as the best solo ship due to its unmatched broadsides, and the Frigate in my experience is the most common, giving players who want to run a crew a sizeable amount of cannons, and of course the superior cargo capacity of the Galleon.
As I said above, TLOPO balance is nowhere near perfect, but adding SOTL isn't an inherently bad decision just because "bigger equals better." As it stands, no ship is really special in the grand scheme of the game anyway, as no ship is outwardly overpowered and there is no reason to believe that SOTL would be overpowered itself if implemented correctly.

Where I do agree, is that the content will not save sailing, or save the game, or anything that people think is currently going downhill. Adding SOTL does not make other sailing content replayable, or worth while. The only way sailing content will ever be replayable and will be something players want to do, is to give them a purpose to go sailing, whether that is in the form of a quest or rare loot or a treasure hunt, doesn't really matter... Most importantly, the sailing content needs to tie in with content in other aspects of the game. This would hypothetically increase the player exploration and interaction across multiple aspects of the game.
 

Sarah Darkmonger

Swashbuckler
I don't know why people are bringing up a topic that was originally put up on the forums a few years ago, seeing as the issue has apparently been addressed. With that being said, I don't see why not to add SOTL, if they add other ships.
I just saw the thread in the latest activity and jumped on Sotl part. lol.
I'd love for ships to be added, I really would. Along with other content like more rank 4+ upgrades that trade special broadsides for extra stats etc, but I also know that that takes development time, which for a fanmade recreation is something of a precious resource.
 
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