Question Allowing user to turn off game cannon contol on deck.

[squintz]

Would you turn off the tlopo game action control of deck first person cannons if given the choice?

 

[navy3001]

im..not really sure what you are trying to say here

 

[Sky Kiwi]

im..not really sure what you are trying to say here

We had this problem last time you made a thread about this, @squintz, so I made some helpful videos demonstrate what you're trying to get across.

I use streamable for my videos, which unfortunately TLOPO forums don't let me embed (yes yes, I'm disappointed too).

The videos below feature a ship turning. The white cube on the side is supposed to represent a TLOPO deck cannon, and how its aiming works. What TLOPO does right now is "counteract" the ship turning for you, keeping you aimed in the same direction, like so. However, what Squintz wants is for it to simply not do that, and turn your deck cannon with the ship, a la this video.

 

[navy3001]

We had this problem last time you made a thread about this, @squintz, so I made some helpful videos demonstrate what you're trying to get across.

I use streamable for my videos, which unfortunately TLOPO forums don't let me embed (yes yes, I'm disappointed too).

The videos below feature a ship turning. The white cube on the side is supposed to represent a TLOPO deck cannon, and how its aiming works. What TLOPO does right now is "counteract" the ship turning for you, keeping you aimed in the same direction, like so. However, what Squintz wants is for it to simply not do that, and turn your deck cannon with the ship, a la this video.

Ah! i see! thank you

also, i like the current system, it makes it easer to aim the cannon

 

[ThunderStorms]

One Issue I hate Is when the ships in Motion and your Cannon aims to the last position you where at , I'd prefer it to Aim forward with the ship motion to be better prepared , but that's just one opinion .
It's not that big a deal to waste much effort on . More Important Bugs to be tended to then small Inferior petty things ! ..........

 

[squintz]

We had this problem last time you made a thread about this, @squintz, so I made some helpful videos demonstrate what you're trying to get across.

I use streamable for my videos, which unfortunately TLOPO forums don't let me embed (yes yes, I'm disappointed too).

The videos below feature a ship turning. The white cube on the side is supposed to represent a TLOPO deck cannon, and how its aiming works. What TLOPO does right now is "counteract" the ship turning for you, keeping you aimed in the same direction, like so. However, what Squintz wants is for it to simply not do that, and turn your deck cannon with the ship, a la this video.

What problem do you speak of? Your first video actually will allow me to explain it better. Your ship is turning right, your enemy is turning with the ship heading the same way, however- your stupid cannon wants to go the opposite way, thus you are forced to mash the right mouse button constantly to try to keep your cannon pointing in the direction of the ships. This makes absolutely no sense in game play.
The capt. is turning right, the enemy is tracking with him and the cannon stays pulling in the opposite direction. Doesn't matter which way the capt is turning, if the enemy is tracking with the ship, which is 90% of the time, you are fighting the cannon. The tighter the circle, the more fight to the cannon. I have yet to see what that movement is supposed to represent. I've played video games for forty years and I can say with some confidence when I see something that is detrimental to anyone's game style that it isn't a positive feature set. I don't know, maybe the dev's think it would be too easy to sink ships or something. In the short time I played cannon defense, it was the way I would have preferred it, without game control of cannon movement and aim. On my first voyage I assumed the same system for cannons and found out the hard way it was not.
It's been unpleasant since. Now a days, I spend almost my whole crew time repairing the ship. Don't even want to touch the cannons. But that's just me. There's a weird side to side movement that happens while I constantly try to correct the cannons that makes me dizzy and nauseous.

All that I'm asking now is that some dev, any dev consider giving us a choice whether we want the old way or NO WAY.

Nice vids btw.

 

[squintz]

Ah! i see! thank you

also, i like the current system, it makes it easer to aim the cannon

May I ask what level cannon you are and do you spend most your time being capt. and steering the ship?

 

[Mathias]

What are you talking about? Are you talking about how the cannons shift left or right based on the turn of the ship?

 

[squintz]

Yes. I don't want them shifting for me. Period.
For one thing, the shift speed has not kept up with sailing speed.
Add constant server lag and it's a crap shoot. Pun intended.

 

[Sky Kiwi]

What problem do you speak of? Your first video actually will allow me to explain it better. Your ship is turning right, your enemy is turning with the ship heading the same way, however- your stupid cannon wants to go the opposite way, thus you are forced to mash the right mouse button constantly to try to keep your cannon pointing in the direction of the ships. This makes absolutely no sense in game play.
The capt. is turning right, the enemy is tracking with him and the cannon stays pulling in the opposite direction. Doesn't matter which way the capt is turning, if the enemy is tracking with the ship, which is 90% of the time, you are fighting the cannon. The tighter the circle, the more fight to the cannon. I have yet to see what that movement is supposed to represent. I've played video games for forty years and I can say with some confidence when I see something that is detrimental to anyone's game style that it isn't a positive feature set. I don't know, maybe the dev's think it would be too easy to sink ships or something. In the short time I played cannon defense, it was the way I would have preferred it, without game control of cannon movement and aim. On my first voyage I assumed the same system for cannons and found out the hard way it was not.
It's been unpleasant since. Now a days, I spend almost my whole crew time repairing the ship. Don't even want to touch the cannons. But that's just me. There's a weird side to side movement that happens while I constantly try to correct the cannons that makes me dizzy and nauseous.

All that I'm asking now is that some dev, any dev consider giving us a choice whether we want the old way or NO WAY.

Nice vids btw.

The problem I speak of is that nobody seems to comprehend what you're talking about. Thing is it depends on how you define it. To some people they would call the current system auto-correcting, while others would consider the cannon tracking alongside the ship movement to count as auto-correcting. Because of this a lot of people don't even think about it, too.

You also keep bringing up Cannon Defence. This is a whole different demon. Your cannon isn't moving (or more specifically, the platform your cannon is on isn't moving), so it's really not at all relevant.

As to whether or not the current system is detrimental, I'm inclined to disagree. You say you've been gaming for forty years, you've got me beat there, but I consider myself an avid gamer and a game developer to boot so I think my words carry some weight too, and I'd say the way the system is set up now is more intuitive for a lot of people. As I said in the other thread, yes some people would prefer no auto-correction, and they should absolutely have an option for it, but the default should be what it is now. Most people find auto-corrected guns easier to aim, significantly so, even if in some cases they're actually having to do more work - it's not about how much you have to move your mouse, it's about knowing when and where to move your mouse. Auto corrected cannons are much more predictable in this sense in almost all cases.

Nonetheless, I took an existing project of mine and slapped on a white cube to make those videos with to clarify this thread's meaning to spark more discussion. I've said my part, and I've even tried to help other people know what's going on, so everyone else get in here and say how you feel about it!

 

[squintz]

The problem I speak of is that nobody seems to comprehend what you're talking about. Thing is it depends on how you define it. To some people they would call the current system auto-correcting, while others would consider the cannon tracking alongside the ship movement to count as auto-correcting. Because of this a lot of people don't even think about it, too.

You also keep bringing up Cannon Defence. This is a whole different demon. Your cannon isn't moving (or more specifically, the platform your cannon is on isn't moving), so it's really not at all relevant.

As to whether or not the current system is detrimental, I'm inclined to disagree. You say you've been gaming for forty years, you've got me beat there, but I consider myself an avid gamer and a game developer to boot so I think my words carry some weight too, and I'd say the way the system is set up now is more intuitive for a lot of people. As I said in the other thread, yes some people would prefer no auto-correction, and they should absolutely have an option for it, but the default should be what it is now. Most people find auto-corrected guns easier to aim, significantly so, even if in some cases they're actually having to do more work - it's not about how much you have to move your mouse, it's about knowing when and where to move your mouse. Auto corrected cannons are much more predictable in this sense in almost all cases.

Nonetheless, I took an existing project of mine and slapped on a white cube to make those videos with to clarify this thread's meaning to spark more discussion. I've said my part, and I've even tried to help other people know what's going on, so everyone else get in here and say how you feel about it!

"Thing is it depends on how you define it. To some people they would call the current system auto-correcting, while others would consider the cannon tracking alongside the ship movement to count as auto-correcting."
What? Auto correcting is auto correcting, you seem to have duplicated yourself or something. Who knows what the program calls it. "Last hit collision-if then else reverse direction"...stack truncate.next stack blah blah....

As I said very early after about 2 posts on this subject, I realized I have no right to ask a change of anything. It should stay as it is without question as I didn't think through my first post in that thread. I only ask that an option be added to allow players a CHOICE in the matter. And cannon defense was an example of cannon function, not about the cannon game itself.

And yes, I have a few years on you. I dabbled in game design back when it was MACHINE LANGUAGE. Remember Zork and Sinclairs? Pong? TI-994A? I don't think you go that basic. Maybe you do. I don't even remember what I used to know. Which wasn't extensive in the first place.

I'm not trying to impress my will on anyone or impress anyone either. No one knows or gives a crap who I am and that's fine.
Obviously, either the devs don't pay much attention on their own to the forums, or the thread doesn't rise to the developers interest level, because I've generated some responses from the prior thread about it plus started a poll and still no acknowledgement from any tlopo dev or staff whether there was even thought about deck cannons. Even if just to say, sorry, we will never include a choice of cannon shooting.

We'll see if anyone else cares either about cannons doing their own thing all the time. It's not a slap against tlopo or the devs, especially if this cannon programming was disney's in the first place. And I don't want to continue saying something is good or bad because that's truly subjective and I don't really have a place to say that to a long time community.

And I've said all I need on this subject as well. I do want to give the poll some time to percolate and see the percentages.

 

[squintz]

The problem I speak of is that nobody seems to comprehend what you're talking about. Thing is it depends on how you define it. To some people they would call the current system auto-correcting, while others would consider the cannon tracking alongside the ship movement to count as auto-correcting. Because of this a lot of people don't even think about it, too.

I guess I haven't said the last I was going to say, I reread some things I'd like to comment on. Above, 'nobody' seems to comprehend what I'm talking about isn't true. I've asked at least 20 random players in chat in game recently about cannons on deck and I'd say honestly 70% came back and said they don't like it or hate it. Out of 20? People know exactly what I'm talking about. So, I disagree with the 'nobody' part in the bigger picture.

Most people find auto-corrected guns easier to aim, significantly so, even if in some cases they're actually having to do more work - it's not about how much you have to move your mouse, it's about knowing when and where to move your mouse. Auto corrected cannons are much more predictable in this sense in almost all cases.

Could you be thinking some sort of auto aiming? That could be a good thing, but when your ship is turning right, your enemy is following you left to right and if you let go of the mouse button your cannon instantly swings to the far left, how the HECK is that auto aiming? How in the world is that even some sort of auto correction?
If it's left over from Disney, then perhaps they thought it was easier for kids to do once they got used to it. It's not our 7 year old nephews game any more. It's grown up a bit.

tlopo I hope is going to include choices in future patches. That's all I can ask for.

Back to the regular scheduled programming now. As always edited for spelling.

 

[Sky Kiwi]

"Thing is it depends on how you define it. To some people they would call the current system auto-correcting, while others would consider the cannon tracking alongside the ship movement to count as auto-correcting."
What? Auto correcting is auto correcting, you seem to have duplicated yourself or something. Who knows what the program calls it. "Last hit collision-if then else reverse direction"...stack truncate.next stack blah blah....

As I said very early after about 2 posts on this subject, I realized I have no right to ask a change of anything. It should stay as it is without question as I didn't think through my first post in that thread. I only ask that an option be added to allow players a CHOICE in the matter. And cannon defense was an example of cannon function, not about the cannon game itself.

And yes, I have a few years on you. I dabbled in game design back when it was MACHINE LANGUAGE. Remember Zork and Sinclairs? Pong? TI-994A? I don't think you go that basic. Maybe you do. I don't even remember what I used to know. Which wasn't extensive in the first place.

I'm not trying to impress my will on anyone or impress anyone either. No one knows or gives a crap who I am and that's fine.
Obviously, either the devs don't pay much attention on their own to the forums, or the thread doesn't rise to the developers interest level, because I've generated some responses from the prior thread about it plus started a poll and still no acknowledgement from any tlopo dev or staff whether there was even thought about deck cannons. Even if just to say, sorry, we will never include a choice of cannon shooting.

We'll see if anyone else cares either about cannons doing their own thing all the time. It's not a slap against tlopo or the devs, especially if this cannon programming was disney's in the first place. And I don't want to continue saying something is good or bad because that's truly subjective and I don't really have a place to say that to a long time community.

And I've said all I need on this subject as well. I do want to give the poll some time to percolate and see the percentages.

Auto correcting is kind of a point of view. I agree with your definition of it, but other people might consider the cannon turning alongside the ship technically being auto correction. That wasn't necessarily an important point in the debate though, I was just giving one potential reason why a lot of people had no idea what the topic was about.

As for the whole code knowledge/trying to impress people thing, I'm not trying to out-do you or anything, I just meant to acknowledge that we both have some weight behind our considerations. By no means did I mean it as a comparison, I apologize if it came off that way.

And finally yeah, I have noticed that suggestion threads never seem to get acknowledged by the dev team. Whether that's because it's never raised to their level or not, I don't know.

I guess I haven't said the last I was going to say, I reread some things I'd like to comment on. Above, 'nobody' seems to comprehend what I'm talking about isn't true. I've asked at least 20 random players in chat in game about cannons on deck and I'd say honestly 70% came back and said they don't like it or hate it. Out of 20? People know exactly what I'm talking about. So, I disagree with the 'nobody' part in the bigger picture.

Could you be thinking some sort of auto aiming? That could be a good thing, but when your ship is turning right, your enemy is following you left to right and if you let go of the mouse button your cannon instantly swings to the far left, how the HECK is that auto aiming? How in the world is that even some sort of auto correction?
If it's left over from Disney, then perhaps they thought it was easier for kids to do once they got used to it. It's not our 7 year old nephews game any more. It's grown up a bit.

tlopo I hope is going to include choices in future patches. That's all I can ask for.

Back to the regular scheduled programming now. As always edited for spelling.

I never meant auto-aiming. I'm just saying when your cannon faces the same direction, all you have to account for is the enemy movement direction. Yes that means you have to keep tracking them, but you can always see what your enemy is about to do. So while it's more work in terms of how much you have to physically move the mouse and/or hold buttons to keep your shots on target, it's much easier to know when and where you have to drag your mouse to do so.

Of course to someone skilled, that doesn't necessarily mean it's better. But it's better most notably for new players, or those without the years of game mechanical skill developed.

Also I'd just like to disclaim that I'm on my 30th hour of being awake right now, and might be articulating these ideas very terribly. I'll review these posts tomorrow.

 

[squintz]

Auto correcting is kind of a point of view. I agree with your definition of it, but other people might consider the cannon turning alongside the ship technically being auto correction. That wasn't necessarily an important point in the debate though, I was just giving one potential reason why a lot of people had no idea what the topic was about.

As for the whole code knowledge/trying to impress people thing, I'm not trying to out-do you or anything, I just meant to acknowledge that we both have some weight behind our considerations. By no means did I mean it as a comparison, I apologize if it came off that way.

And finally yeah, I have noticed that suggestion threads never seem to get acknowledged by the dev team. Whether that's because it's never raised to their level or not, I don't know.


I never meant auto-aiming. I'm just saying when your cannon faces the same direction, all you have to account for is the enemy movement direction. Yes that means you have to keep tracking them, but you can always see what your enemy is about to do. So while it's more work in terms of how much you have to physically move the mouse and/or hold buttons to keep your shots on target, it's much easier to know when and where you have to drag your mouse to do so.

Of course to someone skilled, that doesn't necessarily mean it's better. But it's better most notably for new players, or those without the years of game mechanical skill developed.

Also I'd just like to disclaim that I'm on my 30th hour of being awake right now, and might be articulating these ideas very terribly. I'll review these posts tomorrow.

Yes well, It hasn't been about you either. I'm always impressed with people like you who have gone further with computers and know what they're doing and hopefully make a living doing what they love. You probably really enjoy it too. I'm sure you've already far surpassed my limited foray into programming and that's wonderful.

We can debate what physical coordinates is figured into cannon mechanics, but there always has to be a trade off between too much reality and game play-ability, don't you think? Do you really want to sail for 3 hours to get to Cuba from Port Royal, or are you okay going a 1000 miles in a minute or two?
I'd like to jump off the ship and swim to shore. Cannons are far from accurate as I don't know of any ships in history that allowed any real angle in the first place. So the game allows concessions between reality and fun and reasonable time balance obtaining that fun. I get that. And I also think the developers are doing a very good job juggling this whole concept.

I just quickly got to the point where deck cannons were not fun and that surprised me.

And go to bed before you hurt yourself.