~ REVERSE-ENGINEER_this!

[Shamus The Brute]

Ahoy lads and lasses.

In an attempt to satisfy my curiosity towards the pros and cons associated towards (software) reverse-engineering, on Google I came across two articles which had peaked my interest. *If it's OK, I would like to share below these two articles (the first is associated with the 'legalities' of reverse-engineering while the other focuses upon the unfortunate consequences which sometimes do result from it).

1. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/117788/Analysis_Reverse_Engineering_and_You.php (a 2010 article)
2. http://www.cnet.com/news/hacking-online-games-a-widespread-problem/ (a 2009 article from a 'reputable' news source which explicitly gives mention of POTCO)

Feel free to comment upon either of these two articles or, if ye prefer, the topic of reverse-engineering in general related to POTCO.

*(Note: To better contribute to the poll, please review the following resource: http://dvlabs.tippingpoint.com/blog/2008/06/23/hacking-the-pirates-of-the-caribbean-online-mmorpg)

 

[John Foulroberts]

It's all about intent.

If an individual is hacking the game only to cause disruptions and otherwise malicious behavior, THAT is grounds for removal and potential legal action.

On the contrary, if said individual would like to find possible security breaches in an effort to help out with development and improving the game, that should NOT be frowned upon. Game developers should encourage players to find problems with their game in order to rectify them.

The problem with this is that it's next to impossible to determine an individual's intent by simply seeing them in game. More often than not, our minds jump to the first "intent" that I detailed, and subsequently that person is immediately looked down upon - all of their work is disparaged and they begin to rack up a negative reputation.

POTCO's issue is that the game was more or less abandoned. It was doomed from the beginning, honestly. Their management was sloppy and awry, and it didn't help with Disney cutting jobs and budgets. Players were finding these hacks and subsequently using them for their own merriment BECAUSE nothing was being done about it, AND there were no content updates/patches to keep them occupied. Many of us reported these exploits, but our notifications fell on deaf ears as the game essentially had a "skeleton crew" (pun intended?) during its last few years.

Nothing was addressed. A proper game development team would look for ways to close these gaps in security, and partly as a result, learn from it. But, as aforementioned, there probably wasn't anyone there left to do anything. My guess is that there were just a few interns monitoring the servers, someone who was writing news posts, and a few people manning what was left of their phone systems.

Just my two cents...

JFR

 

[Bart Gunshot]

I say nay. This wasn't meant to be malicious in any way (at least I didn't take it this way). It was a study they did on online games, just like a large business will hire a hacker to try and hack into their database and they will then patch the way they got in. Or people testing new technology to see if it is safe such as a team testing new cars to see how easy it is to drive them remotely because they are now electronic instead of mechanical. Do these hackers use this information they find for malicious purposes? No.

I was going to write more but John has pretty much said what my thoughts are.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

I say nay. This wasn't meant to be malicious in any way (at least I didn't take it this way). It was a study they did on online games, just like a large business will hire a hacker to try and hack into their database and they will then patch the way they got in. Or people testing new technology to see if it is safe such as a team testing new cars to see how easy it is to drive them remotely because they are now electronic instead of mechanical. Do these hackers use this information they find for malicious purposes? No.

I hear what you are saying but there is a principle in science which states that whenever something undergoes "testing," that object itself is changed forever due to the introduction of such testing. In other words, for every action a subsequential reaction occurs. *The modification of POTCO's code was no different. This was because the results of the case study was publicly announced and it was "implied" that POTCO was so easy to hack into (drawing unnecessary attention towards the case study's findings). However, I do agree with what both you and @John Foulroberts say in that INTENT (and lack of personal responsibility) is key. To elaborate further upon this, let me include a snippet of a conversation which took place between myself and a well-known, POTCO hacker back in 2012 whom was solely responsible for the deliberate spreading of such modification of POTCO code:

"I understand where you're coming from and I understand you probably do not understand the significance behind my videos. Yes, I do post videos that in a way may harm the entire POTCO system. I know lots of people who have requested such videos I make. A lot of the Hacking Tutorials I create make people very happy. And again, I am only saying this from my understanding. A lot of people wonder "How do I do this" and "How do I do that" and I simply make the Hacking Tutorials that nobody has seen before. I can honestly say I do these videos sometimes just for the fame and popularity, excluding the Tribute Videos, those are for pure passion. I did not say I am not responsible for my videos, because I clearly am, I am just not responsible for the actions people take using the information in these videos. I cannot control the viewer and their actions. I feel by promoting these videos, in a way it harms and helps the POTCO Community. Not only does it give players a new thing to do in this boring world, it also grasps the attention of Non-Players who seek the opportunity to these same things, therefore bringing more business for Disney..."

Clearly to me, such reverse-engineering did not help POTCO's fate. Those skilled individuals working for DV Labs (in addition to the above ex-POTCO player) have failed to see the connection between personal responsibility and educating the public. ~ If I am totally incorrect on this, then why did Disney fail to respond to such "common knowledge" as assumed that they would on POTCO's behalf?

 

[Bart Gunshot]

I hear what you are saying but there is a principle in science which states that whenever something undergoes "testing," that object itself is changed forever due to the introduction of such testing. In other words, for every action a subsequential reaction occurs. *The modification of POTCO's code was no different. This was because the results of the case study was publicly announced and it was "implied" that POTCO was so easy to hack into (drawing unnecessary attention towards the case study's findings). However, I do agree with what both you and @John Foulroberts say in that INTENT (and lack of personal responsibility) is key. To elaborate further upon this, let me include a snippet of a conversation which took place between myself and a well-known, POTCO hacker back in 2012 whom was solely responsible for the deliberate spreading of such modification of POTCO code:

"I understand where you're coming from and I understand you probably do not understand the significance behind my videos. Yes, I do post videos that in a way may harm the entire POTCO system. I know lots of people who have requested such videos I make. A lot of the Hacking Tutorials I create make people very happy. And again, I am only saying this from my understanding. A lot of people wonder "How do I do this" and "How do I do that" and I simply make the Hacking Tutorials that nobody has seen before. I can honestly say I do these videos sometimes just for the fame and popularity, excluding the Tribute Videos, those are for pure passion. I did not say I am not responsible for my videos, because I clearly am, I am just not responsible for the actions people take using the information in these videos. I cannot control the viewer and their actions. I feel by promoting these videos, in a way it harms and helps the POTCO Community. Not only does it give players a new thing to do in this boring world, it also grasps the attention of Non-Players who seek the opportunity to these same things, therefore bringing more business for Disney..."

I get what you are saying. However there is a very big difference in what DVLabs did and what the 2012-2013 POTCO hackers did, not technically but morally. DVLabs performed these modifications when the game was thriving, as part of a educational series where they reverse engineered many games to show the public, and the makers of the game, how easy it is. Most likely in the hopes to spur the game developers and future game developers to patch and put in security measures. They probably thought, well if anyone does use these methods Disney will surely patch it up in no time, because the game was thriving. Not only that but in every hack DVLabs showed their "tutorial" it was pretty complicated and required a lot of technical know-how, it wasn't a step-by-step tutorial that anyone could successfully preform.

The POTCO hackers hacked the game at a point where the game was going downhill. They kicked the man who was already on the ground. They shared their "code" with other POTCO hackers. They shared their "code" with POTCO players. They made it easy to do, just copy and paste from their .txt file and see what it does. Or watch their "step-by-step tutorial and subscribe for more content!" It was to create drama, be popular, gain fame, have fun, be a troll, bribe people, hack people, feel like you know how to program, or do something no one else can do because you are the only person with this peice of code for about a day or two until you give it to your friend who gives it to their friends who does the same.

Clearly to me, such reverse-engineering did not help POTCO's fate. Those skilled individuals working for DV Labs (in addition to the above ex-POTCO player) have failed to see the connection between personal responsibility and educating the public. ~ If I am totally incorrect on this, then why did Disney fail to respond to such "common knowledge" as assumed that they would on POTCO's behalf?

Like I said DVLabs assumed, as I would assume of Disney or any major game company to do, that they would patch it if it became an issue. Because the game was thriving, this was back in 2008. For all we know they could have patched it we will most likely never know. It wasn't presented to a large group of POTCO players. Just the followers of their blog, and I believe they presented POTCO, and several other games that they reverse engineered at a convention. Now you could say, well it's on the internet so POTCO players could find it. Yeah, but it wasn't directly posted to the POTCO community plus this hack never did become a problem, so Disney did not patch it.

POTCO hackers kicked the man while he was down. They knew that the game was going downhill. They knew that Disney would never patch this hack, they never did for Toontown. They posted it directly to the POTCO community. [insert paragraph 2 here.] Disney was done with the game anyways at this point so they did not patch it.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

I get what you are saying. However there is a very big difference in what DVLabs did and what the 2012-2013 POTCO hackers did, not technically but morally. DVLabs performed these modifications when the game was thriving...

Like I said DVLabs assumed, as I would assume of Disney or any major game company to do, that they would patch it if it became an issue. Because the game was thriving, this was back in 2008. For all we know they could have patched it we will most likely never know. It wasn't presented to a large group of POTCO players. Just the followers of their blog, and I believe they presented POTCO, and several other games that they reverse engineered at a convention. Now you could say, well it's on the internet so POTCO players could find it. Yeah, but it wasn't directly posted to the POTCO community plus this hack never did become a problem, so Disney did not patch it.

I hear what you are saying. But (lol)...

...please take some time to review (you or anyone else) the ~ flood ~ of "comments" made to the actual DVLabs blog below which focuses upon POTCO's (python) loopholes:

• http://dvlabs.tippingpoint.com/blog/2008/06/23/hacking-the-pirates-of-the-caribbean-online-mmorpg

QUESTION: Did ye notice just how quickly the comments began to roll in from individuals supporting and/or asking for further information concerning such hacks? According to the blog, those comments began as early as the posting of the blog itself - 2008. Therefore, you are correct in saying that many POTCO hackers came onto the scene during POTCO's later years but what I am saying also is that there existed a demand for such hacks as early as 2008 when the case study's findings was posted initially to the internet.

Look. I have never considered myself to be a savvy gamer whom is well-informed of developing trends affecting the gaming industry but what I do know for a fact is that whenever the announcement for the release of any NEW game goes public...almost as quickly as the announcement itself is began there are individuals across the world whom will pounce upon the opportunity to both unravel and share exploits (in-game cheats/hacks, if you will) for themselves and others to gain a competitive advantage. From what I have discovered, this is exactly what happened with both "POTC - Masters of Seas" mobile game along with Disney Infinity. *Therefore, I do understand that DVLabs did meant well to educate the public concerning the POTCO/python case study but the question still remains...should they have (in consideration to the implications that often result when such discoveries are leaked)?

~ To me, it comes down to not an issue addressing the assumption that Disney would fix such problems but rather one having to do with a lack of personal responsibility and/or sound judgement (on DVLab's behalf) in whether or not if they should.

 

[Eric Badbones]

I hear what you are saying. But (lol)...

rofl! I knew nothing of this when I joined because it was the very first online game I ever signed up for. So...POTCO was aware of this DVL issue and all of its baggage? I say if they had intentions of screwing with a game that players had paid for they should have let everyone know. I see grounds for potential legal action with this and Disneys "terms of use" and their "reverse engineering" no-no policy. Anyone else feel "cheated"? my memory all of a sudden seems to fail me right now however I do remember one month sub $9.95 and the one year special was a measly $80+? well that measly $80 most players paid (or did they) doesn't sound like a bargain after all. I mean really??? With the lag issues and many players using mods I felt they were already over-charging but this really takes the rum cake. Essentially what I'm saying is POTCO should have been free from at least the beginning of 2010 onward to its closure if all of this is true. Only because of the terms of use policy which was clearly violated beyond the shadow of a doubt. Am I alone on this one? Surely a subscription based PC game is something I would never tamper with as outlined in their policy. And yes, for every action there will always be a reaction.