Idea A New Take On Trading

[Peter Goldbeard]

Obviously, trading is very controversial currently. Many feel that it's a great idea while others believe that the ease of trading weapons will ruin the game and looting in general. I personally believe it is too tricky to implement while keeping looting alive as well. However, many people are pushing to implement trading, so I believe it will eventually become part of the game, in what form, however, may change.

I propose that each weapon is given a "value", a number between 1 and 10 that expresses the item's value (rusty cutlass - 1; lost sword - 10) etc. Based on the weapons value, you must complete a quest to "Prove Your Worth" to the other pirate. For example, Prove Your Worth 1 Quest, you must kill 15 gravediggers and sink 5 sea vipers. For Prove Your Worth 10 Quest, you must kill 50 thrall captains, devil root, and foulberto smasho, and sink 10 war frigates, 5 war sloops, 5 Hunters, and 5 warships. Obviously, these numbers can be played around with by the devs before the quests are implemented. This way, you don't actually have to loot the item, but you have to show that you're willing to put SOME amount of effort in. Then, when both parties are done the quest and believe the other pirate is worthy of the valuable trade, the transaction is completed. I believe this is a creative compromise to solve the debate of Trading.

 

[Mikte]

My one issue with this idea is say one person is selling the Lost Sword, 10 people want it and go about finishing the quest. If my understanding of this is correct its a race to the finish quest and whoever finishes first wins while the other 9 are out of luck and the time spent.
*But I like the concept of having to do something and the idea of a player driven economy would be nice actually.

 

[Peter Goldbeard]

My one issue with this idea is say one person is selling the Lost Sword, 10 people want it and go about finishing the quest. If my understanding of this is correct its a race to the finish quest and whoever finishes first wins while the other 9 are out of luck and the time spent.
*But I like the concept of having to do something and the idea of a player driven economy would be nice actually.

It would work differently than this. Essentially, you and your trading partner (friend, guildmate, or whoever) create the preliminary trade. Now you two have to complete your Prove Your Worth Quests. Nobody other than you two are involved in the trade. When your quests are completed, the transaction is made.

 

[Sparky Wonderwolf]

it is too tricky to implement while keeping looting alive as well

Looting is not going to die because weapons have to come from somewhere. Trading does not necessarily mean gold exchange either, it could be 5 commons to the 1 rare. It could be a single bright for an out of season peddler outfit. Not to mention, once TLOPO is done re-engineering POTCO, they will be looking to add a steady stream of content, of which in its final years the game did not have and why looting became more popular and is very popular right now. Even if looting takes a sizeable hit to this, there will be other new content to focus on to where looting will no longer be a major focus of the game. Trading is not going to be implemented before full release. It likely won't be implemented before a myriad of content TLOPO likely hasn't even revealed is released. We can't automatically assume that because there is no looting that it will equate to game death. TLOPO is operating this as if it were a normal game. They aren't doing a full release and then sitting on their butts playing the maintain game that POTCO did towards the end. Escondida is evidence of this.

A Prove Your Worth Quest is not a good idea in my opinion. I would be in favor of different kinds of restrictions. Certain weapons (redeem codes or legendaries) get a non-tradeable item label on it and you just simply are stuck with selling it. Others could require it to be bound to your character when you use it (its like not being able to return it or sell it once the candy is out of the wrapper, its yours now). This is the case in a game I play other than Pirates. Doing a quest though takes too long and if the 6 second video that spurred this conversation to begin with is any indication... it will likely not work well in the format they intend to use unless you had a dedicated location. Plus, proving worth quest is like a tax from the game on top of what you are trading away. The person trading away, say El Patron, is not going to let it go for dirt cheap. They may not even sell it for gold. Maybe they want a chest of valuables in return for this rare find. A couple lesser famed blades, some mats, etc being it is not something you just find off the street. Personally, I would not be so quick to sell it for just pure gold if I can get some other valuables.

There is another thing to consider. Let's say I got 2 duplicates of a sword I already own. I put a lot of time and effort in for the hope I don't get a duplicate because the reality is, Famed don't drop instantly unless you are fishing (which we can all agree should probably be nerfed). The effort for looting it does not necessarily disappear. I can trade it out for someone else's duplicates that I do not currently have.

 

[Stormtimbers]

Obviously, trading is very controversial currently. Many feel that it's a great idea while others believe that the ease of trading weapons will ruin the game and looting in general. I personally believe it is too tricky to implement while keeping looting alive as well. However, many people are pushing to implement trading, so I believe it will eventually become part of the game, in what form, however, may change.

I propose that each weapon is given a "value", a number between 1 and 10 that expresses the item's value (rusty cutlass - 1; lost sword - 10) etc. Based on the weapons value, you must complete a quest to "Prove Your Worth" to the other pirate. For example, Prove Your Worth 1 Quest, you must kill 15 gravediggers and sink 5 sea vipers. For Prove Your Worth 10 Quest, you must kill 50 thrall captains, devil root, and foulberto smasho, and sink 10 war frigates, 5 war sloops, 5 Hunters, and 5 warships. Obviously, these numbers can be played around with by the devs before the quests are implemented. This way, you don't actually have to loot the item, but you have to show that you're willing to put SOME amount of effort in. Then, when both parties are done the quest and believe the other pirate is worthy of the valuable trade, the transaction is completed. I believe this is a creative compromise to solve the debate of Trading.

What? No.

The effort that you put in is GETTING THE STUFF THAT YOU'RE TRADING THE OTHER PERSON. Why would I want to waste time doing a pointless quest and making the other person do one too that gains both of us nothing? There is literally no benefit for either person to have these quests, they would just be an annoying hassle.
It wastes time for both parties because
1. The person who has to do the quest has to waste time to do the quest
2. The other person also has to do the quest and then one of them has to waste time waiting for the other to finish
3. Either one of them could decide that they don't want to trade the item to the other or just don't want to trade the item at all at any time. This just wastes time for both parties with no benefit at all, similar to the entire idea of these quests.

Tell me, is there anything to gain? What do I gain by knowing that the person that I'm trading with can kill a few enemies? Why do I care who I'm trading my items to, as long as I get what I wanted in return?

 

[Peter Goldbeard]

I'm actually regretting posting this thread now. Due to all of the debating over trading so far, I realized that arguing over the issue is not going to get us anywhere. The looters are never going to want traditional trading and other style players will always believe in it. I thought that a mild quest, not very difficult (maybe easier than the one in my example; that one was a bit extreme ), could help to balance out the debate on both sides. Apparently, I was wrong.

@Sparky Wonderwolf I thought about restrictions as well, but I had heard that idea recommended already and thought to post this as a new idea and see how it turned out.

@Stormtimbers Proving Your Worth is supposed to be showing that your worthy and capable of properly wielding the weapon. Once the trade has been suggested and the quests begin, you are locked in. If you complete your quest, you automatically get your weapon. If the other person decides not to do the quest, then it's their loss. No prize for them!

 

[Peter Goldbeard]

Looting is not going to die because weapons have to come from somewhere. Trading does not necessarily mean gold exchange either, it could be 5 commons to the 1 rare. It could be a single bright for an out of season peddler outfit. Not to mention, once TLOPO is done re-engineering POTCO, they will be looking to add a steady stream of content, of which in its final years the game did not have and why looting became more popular and is very popular right now. Even if looting takes a sizeable hit to this, there will be other new content to focus on to where looting will no longer be a major focus of the game. Trading is not going to be implemented before full release. It likely won't be implemented before a myriad of content TLOPO likely hasn't even revealed is released. We can't automatically assume that because there is no looting that it will equate to game death. TLOPO is operating this as if it were a normal game. They aren't doing a full release and then sitting on their butts playing the maintain game that POTCO did towards the end. Escondida is evidence of this.

A Prove Your Worth Quest is not a good idea in my opinion. I would be in favor of different kinds of restrictions. Certain weapons (redeem codes or legendaries) get a non-tradeable item label on it and you just simply are stuck with selling it. Others could require it to be bound to your character when you use it (its like not being able to return it or sell it once the candy is out of the wrapper, its yours now). This is the case in a game I play other than Pirates. Doing a quest though takes too long and if the 6 second video that spurred this conversation to begin with is any indication... it will likely not work well in the format they intend to use unless you had a dedicated location. Plus, proving worth quest is like a tax from the game on top of what you are trading away. The person trading away, say El Patron, is not going to let it go for dirt cheap. They may not even sell it for gold. Maybe they want a chest of valuables in return for this rare find. A couple lesser famed blades, some mats, etc being it is not something you just find off the street. Personally, I would not be so quick to sell it for just pure gold if I can get some other valuables.

There is another thing to consider. Let's say I got 2 duplicates of a sword I already own. I put a lot of time and effort in for the hope I don't get a duplicate because the reality is, Famed don't drop instantly unless you are fishing (which we can all agree should probably be nerfed). The effort for looting it does not necessarily disappear. I can trade it out for someone else's duplicates that I do not currently have.

Also, I totally agree with you in the beginning. There will be more new content to replace looting. I totally agree and understand that. Here's the thing: try telling some of the looters that now. They aren't going to want trading, and honestly if at least 1/3 of the game believes it's a bad idea, then I think we need to improve the idea. Hence, my currently unsuccessful compromise

 

[Stormtimbers]

@Stormtimbers Proving Your Worth is supposed to be showing that your worthy and capable of properly wielding the weapon. Once the trade has been suggested and the quests begin, you are locked in. If you complete your quest, you automatically get your weapon. If the other person decides not to do the quest, then it's their loss. No prize for them!

But you have not answered one of my main questions. Why do I care at all if they are "capable of properly wielding the weapon" or "worthy"? Why is this something that is beneficial instead of just a waste of time?

 

[Peter Goldbeard]

But you have not answered one of my main questions. Why do I care at all if they are "capable of properly wielding the weapon" or "worthy"? Why is this something that is beneficial instead of just a waste of time?

Because some looters value their weapons very highly and if they choose to trade their weapons with the new system then they would want to make sure the person is willing to work for it. However, the quest is just a way of negotiating the two sides here because, if you truly care about the stability of the game, then we cannot just throw in a trading system and upset half of the players and completely change the game's style. Trading can be great, but it needs to be held back in some way, at least until new content is implemented and up and running completely. The quest pales in comparison to actually earning the weapon, and that way trading doesn't make it too easy to get every single weapon.

I understand that you may not care as much about your weapons about some others do, but in the best interest of the game and everyone who plays it, trading needs to have a compromised method so that trading doesn't go overboard.

 

[Stormtimbers]

Because some looters value their weapons very highly and if they choose to trade their weapons with the new system then they would want to make sure the person is willing to work for it.

Weapons are commodities. If I have a Lost Sword and someone else has a Lost Sword, these are the same weapon. If they have some personal attachment to their specific weapon, they can get another one that is literally the same in every way. As I have said before, the work that your trading partner has put in for your weapon is the fact that they have worked to get the items that they are trading to you.

trading needs to have a compromised method so that trading doesn't go overboard

Trading is basically a default feature for any MMORPG, and I am actually extremely surprised that there is any debate about it at all. World of Warcraft, a game that is still thriving after over 13 years, has trading. The Runescape series has existed for 16 years, which, unsurprisingly, has trading. Lord of the Rings Online, a game that is played by many people here on these forums, also has trading, and has existed for 10 years.
All of these games have had active communities for a very long time, and they all have trading.
It is in the best interest of the game TO have trading with NO RESTRICTIONS.

 

[Peter Goldbeard]

Weapons are commodities. If I have a Lost Sword and someone else has a Lost Sword, these are the same weapon. If they have some personal attachment to their specific weapon, they can get another one that is literally the same in every way. As I have said before, the work that your trading partner has put in for your weapon is the fact that they have worked to get the items that they are trading to you.


Trading is basically a default feature for any MMORPG, and I am actually extremely surprised that there is any debate about it at all. World of Warcraft, a game that is still thriving after over 13 years, has trading. The Runescape series has existed for 16 years, which, unsurprisingly, has trading. Lord of the Rings Online, a game that is played by many people here on these forums, also has trading, and has existed for 10 years.
All of these games have had active communities for a very long time, and they all have trading.
It is in the best interest of the game TO have trading with NO RESTRICTIONS.

Look, I hate to put it this way, but really, the quest was just a suggestion to help compromise between the two sides of the argument that is going on. If you have a problem with the people who are against trading and want to show them your side, go to them. Dont try to work it out with me. I'm just trying to negotiate because as it is, people will be upset no matter what happens. The best way to work things out right now is to compromise, so I hope others will try to negotiate as well, but feel free to try to show them why you believe trading will be good. As of right now, I hope that everyone can come to some kind of an agreement (compromise or otherwise) that will benefit this game and it's people

 

[Stormtimbers]

Look, I hate to put it this way, but really, the quest was just a suggestion to help compromise between the two sides of the argument that is going on. If you have a problem with the people who are against trading and want to show them your side, go to them. Dont try to work it out with me. I'm just trying to negotiate because as it is, people will be upset no matter what happens. The best way to work things out right now is to compromise, so I hope others will try to negotiate as well, but feel free to try to show them why you believe trading will be good. As of right now, I hope that everyone can come to some kind of an agreement (compromise or otherwise) that will benefit this game and it's people

The problem is, I have not seen any compromises that both sides are happy with.

With this compromise, myself and the pro-trading community think that this would just cause a hassle and a waste of time.
When looters say "If trading was added there would have to be restriction on it, like only a rare for a rare and only one item per other item," we say "no, trading should have no restrictions."

There is simply nothing suggested so far that would work. Right now it's either trading, or no trading.
If anyone else can think of a halfway point they are welcome to tell me.

 

[Jim Hexskull]

Here's the way I see it. You work really hard to buy a brand new car. You're extremely proud of this car, and and love it even more because you worked so hard to earn it. The neighbor's kid however, just had a car gifted to them. They don't work and complain at every turn. Does their receiving the car devalue your car? Does it make your car any less earned? Does it mean that you should now quit driving, because someone else got a car for free while you had to earn yours? The answer to all three of those questions is no. Trading and looting would be the same way. Just because someone got an item in a trade and didn't have to work hard to get it, doesn't take the value of your item away when you work hard to earn it. It doesn't affect you at all actually how others obtain their items, only yours.

 

[Darkslinger]

I think it should be called Exchanging to allow actual Trading to be added in the future. I'm all for it and have no issues with it whatsoever - no one has to prove their worth for giving or receiving anything. Weapons already have level requirements so it wouldn't make a level 10 pirate overpowered, for example.

As @Stormtimbers stated, many games have supported trading and it won't prove as problematic as all.

My only concerns are with the lack of items to exchange - other MMOs have a plethora of weapons, clothing and items that Pirates Online lacks. Personally, I don't think TLOPO will ever evolve to be a large-scale MMORPG and will never be better than its predecessor as this requires a complete overhaul which is impossible.

Spoiler: Unless...

Unless the devs decide to start the whole project over and refresh the game (update it and make it more relevant to the day and time we're in in terms of graphics, animations, combat, etc.) with the future in mind - which definitely won't happen (if you ever consider doing it though, remove the trademarked characters and you're good to go).

@Mikte Regarding your player-based economy remark: I don't think that exchanging a couple of weapons/clothing items and Gold with other players automatically create a player-based economy as it's a simple game.

Trading would be a cool addition - however, it can't be introduced all alone. I highly doubt that the game can have a player-based economy as the game is too two-dimensional for that; if more relevant features, mechanics and things to do were added alongside trading it would work well. Everything ranging from the amount of items in the core game to the map sizes to things like crafting and transport methods matter. This isn't BDO or AA - so in the game's current state I don't see proper trading happening.

 

[Davy Gunshot]

I would say a open and free market trade system is the best way to go regardless. Looting is neccessary you have to do something to earn Gold you have to do something to earn weapons even if they are traded for gold, if you want the gold you have to have something to trade for it it is what it is, some people may decide to quit but the rest i imagine will be perfect happy. It works in other games, and it works in real life so why cant it work in tlopo?