Question possible greyline.

[acertassassin]

We do not have official permission to use Disney's Pirates of The Caribbean Online's content. However....

I know that i do not have all of the context for the sentence above but i just feel uneasy about the question in general. i understand that you do not intend to profit off of the developement of the game. it just gives me the unease of disney coming out of nowhere and shutting everything down and then providing a messed up answer.

 

[Captain Bren]

Who said tlopo doesn't have official permission from Disney?

I'm pretty sure Disney won't care, as long as no money is made from the game- like membership fees. Then they would probably ask for royalties and whatnot... but I don't think you should worry about this, and leave it to the people in charge...

 

[John Foulroberts]

You are correct. We do not have official permission from Disney to be using their resources.

Yeah, accepting any form of monetary gain would put us in hot water for sure. That's why we're self-funded. I agree that the possibility of Disney swooping in out of nowhere and slamming us with a cease and desist is always a possibility, but I think as long as money is not involved we should be relatively "okay" in terms of legal standing.

 

[JackRedhawk]

This has been discussed so many times at this point, lol.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

We do not have official permission to use Disney's Pirates of The Caribbean Online's content. However....

I know that i do not have all of the context for the sentence above but i just feel uneasy about the question in general. i understand that you do not intend to profit off of the developement of the game. it just gives me the unease of disney coming out of nowhere and shutting everything down and then providing a messed up answer.

Two assumptions are prevalent, one having to do with TLOPO (one with another remake):

1. The taking-in of money is too risky. Pirates whom believe in this assumption place their hope in that Disney will remain lenient, if they avoid in doing so. The thought is, Disney is overly concerned about money and so therefore to avoid (unwanted) attention it's best to not remain open to receiving funds from the general public.
2. The taking-in of money is OK because Disney "doesn't care." Pirates whom believe in this assumption place their hope in the fact that Disney hasn't taken action thus far and has remained tolerant despite POTCO's IP (intellectual property) being used.

In my opinion, both of these assumptions are just that; assumptions. I say this simply because nobody has sufficiently gained (official) input from Disney about the managing of money in lieu of a past property of their own being used without permission. If you evaluate TTR's stance on the money issue, they're going off of assumption as well and...I think...everyone has taken that assumption and over time have formulated their own opinion, one way or the other.

At the end of the day, it's quite prudent to simply honor Disney and POTCO by implementing strategic decisions in-place. One of those decisions, is the managing/group acceptance of funds towards financing a thing. However, that is only one thing to be of concern about (as the managing of funding remains - truthfully - only 'one' aspect which could prevent Disney towards taking action). Don't believe me? Conduct research on your own via Googling "Abandonware" because that is the route I had to take to sufficiently informed myself.

*Oh, no matter how fancy I try to write and to explain things above^ ...it's no substitute for yourself looking into things on your own. Keep in mind though both POTCO's and Disney's own terms we had to agree to in order to play POTCO. (If you such things cause more questions than answers, you're not alone because I had to review several different sources of [online] info. just to even get a grip on what POTCO's and Disney's terms were trying to say).

 

[Irish z]

Well what are they going to do? Sue anonymous users online?

 

[Irish z]

I bet some of the original developers want it to stay up, as they are the ones who made it and love it the same. I bet some are here right now, I don't know about Disney as a whole thougg

 

[Xavier0250]

Well what are they going to do? Sue anonymous users online?

But some of the TLOPO staff aren't anonymous though.

I bet some of the original developers want it to stay up, as they are the ones who made it and love it the same. I bet some are here right now, I don't know about Disney as a whole thougg

While some OG developers probably still love the game and wants it to continue, they are still under the direction of Disney. I am willing to bet that some of them don't even work at Disney Online anymore. We are really under Disney's mercy. However, I am 99% sure we'll be fine. As long as TLOPO isn't monetized (donations and advertising counts).

 

[Irish z]

But some of the TLOPO staff aren't anonymous though.


While some OG developers probably still love the game and wants it to continue, they are still under the direction of Disney. I am willing to bet that some of them don't even work at Disney Online anymore. We are really under Disney's mercy. However, I am 99% sure we'll be fine. As long as TLOPO isn't monetized (donations and advertising counts).

I think if they did something it would've been done by now

 

[Shamus The Brute]

Well what are they going to do? Sue anonymous users online?

Likely no, but nobody really knows. I say this because the remaking of POTCO is unprecedented. (I don't particularly think there have been too many game remakes out there which are based off of 'active' and continual IP which is showcased openly/so readily. Therefore, comparing a POTCO remake to a TTO remake is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges). Also, I say "no" because if things were going to be looked at...various nation-states are represented via development teams (i.e., US, Brazil, Canada, etc.) and therefore jurisdiction law comes into the play to where I don't feel it would be practical for Disney to spend their waking hours going to such an extent. More than likely, as John Foulroberts mentioned though, a seize and desist letter could be given making things official.

I bet some of the original developers want it to stay up, as they are the ones who made it and love it the same. I bet some are here right now, I don't know about Disney as a whole thougg

...While some OG developers probably still love the game and wants it to continue, they are still under the direction of Disney. I am willing to bet that some of them don't even work at Disney Online anymore.

Last time I had checked, three key and initial POTCO developers are back working for Disney again, in various capacities. Therefore, they couldn't officially give their own opinion about matters due to Disney's non-disclosure agreement (NDA) clause, for hired employees. However, ideas exist to which few support.

I think if they did something it would've been done by now

I hear ya. The thing to maybe keep in mind (actually, I 'wish' a lot of people would), is that things inside Disney are always changing. What I mean is, if one guy is OK with things today...who's to say a little down the road someone new might feel the same way?

I think though that this point is what a lot of people are banking on.

 

[OurGangsDarkOath]

Well there's a club penguin private server that makes money off of name glows and its been active since 2011 so I doubt disney would do anything about tlopo, I think congress created a law where fans can create an mmo only if the mmo is offically closed and they aren't profitting off it..

 

[Xavier0250]

Well there's a club penguin private server that makes money off of name glows and its been active since 2011 so I doubt disney would do anything about tlopo, I think congress created a law where fans can create an mmo only if the mmo is offically closed and they aren't profitting off it..

The difference here really lies in the fact that POTCO is a project under a multi-billion dollar IP, which does bring in question whether Disney would act more to protect its general IP assets.

edit: I misspelled whether

 

[Irish z]

The difference here really lies in the fact that POTCO is a project under a multi-billion dollar IP, which does bring in question whether Disney would act more to protect its general IP assets.

edit: I misspelled whether

Doubt it it's relatively outdated and the game is now closed

 

[Sires]

Disney has the ability to shut TLOPO down at any moment.

On that note, for whatever reason, there is a widespread misconception regarding the use of monetary gains. TLOPO currently does not charge its users and also does not accept public donations. This does not mean TLOPO is in the clear, in any manner. Disney has the full capability to shut TLOPO down, whether or not money is gained.

I, myself, have always been a bit confused on why the staff of TLOPO have never asked for permission (or atleast why Disney has not privately/publicly responded) for the full use of the content.

 

[Christopher Cannonskull]

Doubt it it's relatively outdated and the game is now closed

But theres a new movie being made around the franchise and the IP is still earning them the big bucks.

Disney has the ability to shut TLOPO down at any moment.

On that note, for whatever reason, there is a widespread misconception regarding the use of monetary gains. TLOPO currently does not charge its users and also does not accept public donations. This does not mean TLOPO is in the clear, in any manner. Disney has the full capability to shut TLOPO down, whether or not money is gained.

I, myself, have always been a bit confused on why the staff of TLOPO have never asked for permission (or atleast why Disney has not privately/publicly responded) for the full use of the content.

Ive said this before but lets not poke the bear that is disney. it is completely fine to go walking in the woods but you dont make it your job to find the bear and alert it to your presence

 

[EZchaird]

Likely no, but nobody really knows. I say this because the remaking of POTCO is unprecedented. (I don't particularly think there have been too many game remakes out there which are based off of 'active' and continual IP which is showcased openly/so readily. Therefore, comparing a POTCO remake to a TTO remake is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges). Also, I say "no" because if things were going to be looked at...various nation-states are represented via development teams (i.e., US, Brazil, Canada, etc.) and therefore jurisdiction law comes into the play to where I don't feel it would be practical for Disney to spend their waking hours going to such an extent. More than likely, as John Foulroberts mentioned though, a seize and desist letter could be given making things official.


Last time I had checked, three key and initial POTCO developers are back working for Disney again, in various capacities. Therefore, they couldn't officially give their own opinion about matters due to Disney's non-disclosure agreement (NDA) clause, for hired employees. However, ideas exist to which few support.

I hear ya. The thing to maybe keep in mind (actually, I 'wish' a lot of people would), is that things inside Disney are always changing. What I mean is, if one guy is OK with things today...who's to say a little down the road someone new might feel the same way?

I think though that this point is what a lot of people are banking on.

Not so many game remakes, yeah. Some few have dedicated fanbases that would recreate them if they had to, like what is happening with TLOPO, however, I do know one specifically (and the original game has three separate remakes in the works) wherein each remake is using both a different name and storyline, preserving only the main mechanic of that game: the sheer possible uniqueness and customizability. Probably the main reason they did not use the same stuff is because of NCsoft and how that probably would have gone over (they even tried to negotiate with NCsoft as one point to literally use a kickstarter to buy all the data and stuff for the game, but NCsoft wasn't having it).

 

[Sires]

Ive said this before but lets not poke the bear that is disney. it is completely fine to go walking in the woods but you dont make it your job to find the bear and alert it to your presence

I think the bear has already been poked, mate.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

Well there's a club penguin private server that makes money off of name glows and its been active since 2011 so I doubt disney would do anything about tlopo, I think congress created a law where fans can create an mmo only if the mmo is offically closed and they aren't profitting off it..

Good point. Club Penguin is a big deal to Disney (for some reason). Even so, Club Penguin is practically unknown to a lot of people whom aren't gamers and this contrasts with the Pirates property and brand because even the really old neighbor down your street is probably familiar with Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean theme-park ride.

*If you can locate said law on the internet for everyone to read, I'd been interested in seeing that.

Disney has the ability to shut TLOPO down at any moment.

On that note, for whatever reason, there is a widespread misconception regarding the use of monetary gains. TLOPO currently does not charge its users and also does not accept public donations. This does not mean TLOPO is in the clear, in any manner. Disney has the full capability to shut TLOPO down, whether or not money is gained.

I, myself, have always been a bit confused on why the staff of TLOPO have never asked for permission (or at least why Disney has not privately/publicly responded) for the full use of the content.

I agree.

I cannot speak for TLOPO, and I would never try. However, I was thinking to myself today how wonderful it would be if the effort itself was made by TLOPO because when it comes down to it...what is important is the establishment of two-way conversation. Trust won't likely ever occur unless such a conversation takes place because really, how else are they suppose to know and to understand how much reliving the POTCO experience would mean to all of us if correspondence never takes place? Sure, they have the internet and they could easily Google what we're doing but as far as they know TLOPO is no different that a lot of other remakes that exist out there whom seek to do things strictly on their own, and not making a point to honor a thing via communicating to the powers to be...about it.

idk. This is just how I had always seen the issue. It does not mean that I am right. It just means I've thought about this a lot and it keeps going back to gaining their trust. (On a side-note, I've gained a response from them already but a very long time ago [during the time 'Disney Infinity' was their love and focus] and I can pm that post to you here if you're interested to know what they said then and @ that point-in-time).

...I do know one specifically (and the original game has three separate remakes in the works) wherein each remake is using both a different name and storyline, preserving only the main mechanic of that game: the sheer possible uniqueness and customizability.

I support the theory of not trying to tie-in a remake of POTCO...at all...with the original "perception" of the game. The game itself can be the same - to some extent - but the outward appearance of it (including title itself among other things) should not lead those unaware to even consider the remake itself was ever associated with a Disney work. Of course, I support this form of strategy after further remaining in communication with the Mouse. However, one does not simply walk into Mordor (i.e., speaking to Disney) unless you're quite capable of approaching them the right way.

*The unique thing about the ex-POTCO community is that there exists players out there, just like you and just like me, whom actually tried to establish prior contact with Disney on behalf of the community. Why those players are not relied upon now, I'll never know.

 

[acertassassin]

as a side note to all this i understand that they cannot take any donations or any form of payment as it would reflect and may comprimise copyright.

the only problem i was talking about was the understanding that just because you dont take money for the project does not really make it in the clear.

plus if we are going into the notions of donations the easiest way to stop that problem is for the developers to create a business and then simply use the donations for upkeep cost and take only that amount for upkeep alone, this would keep them still in the green as no profit would have been made due to upkeep costs. so breaking even is not profiting.

another thing would be that donations could be completely untracable and you would not even have to relate them even to the current site.

they could simply be put for a different project and then just used from there as it would not be considered donations for tlopo, so you could take donations while not taking donations.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

...they could simply be put for a different project and then just used from there as it would not be considered donations for tlopo, so you could take donations while not taking donations.

Understood. Some people, I'm sure, support this. The reasoning behind is quite logical and, it makes perfect sense. *Problem is (and the point I will always try to make), that 2 wrongs don't make a 1 right.

For those of you whom remember the television series, "The Sopranos," the family's MAFIA business was supported by a mainstream business; a waste (or trash) business. Now, I am not the smartest pirate out there but...I am aware of three things:

1. TLOPO has stated they will not be accepting donations
2. Tony Soprano loved that dang pony (shot-to-death out of a 'vendetta')
3. Money-laundering is a serious crime