Re-roll Merchant (An Alternative to Controversial Trading)

Bart Gunshot

Bart Gunshot

Site Founder
Trading has been discussed to death, and it is a very controversial topic. So let me introduce a new idea (not really - many games have it same with player trading) that will probably be just as equally controversial. I propose a system that will allow for unwanted looted famed and legendary weapons to be "re-rolled." Many times one loots famed and legendary weapons that are unwanted or simply duplicates. These famed and even legendary weapons (hello silver freeze) are trashed or not taken. And when the game drops these unwanted weapons it was simply the result of a mostly random system. You looted a famed/legendary - the game just so happened to pick one you don't want... over and over again. Maybe there should be a system to let the game randomly pick for you again.

Now this system shouldn't be free, nor should it be so pricey that no one would ever take advantage of it. This price could be implemented in a few ways. I'll lay out two ways here.

First of all, this should be done through a merchant. This makes you have to hold on to unwanted items for a bit, and therefore some amount of consequence. You would loot unwanted famed and legendary items and take them to this merchant. This merchant could be implemented in one of the following ways:
  • First way: You sell your famed/legendary to the merchant for a type of material (much like the bones or moonstones TLOPO has already implemented). Each famed/legendary will have a certain amount of material you will receive by selling it. OR it could be a flat rate 1 material for famed 2 for legendary. You would then use this material to buy essentially a slot machine roll (a re-roll). Say, 2 material for a famed roll, and 3 material for a legendary roll. You are guaranteed to get famed/legendary out of it. BUT NOT guaranteed something better.
  • Second way: Each famed/legendary is granted a single re-roll of its own type, but takes an extraordinary amount of gold to do so. Again, you are guaranteed to get a famed/legendary back, but not something better necessarily.
Of course, in either of these ways you could once again re-roll the weapon you receive from the first re-roll by repeating the same process if you received another weapon you don't want.

This removes the unknowns of trading, while still having a system that allows players to right bad luck. It requires you to have played for a long time in either way of implementing it (either in gold or in famed/legendaries). Yet it makes it so you have some more control over what you get. Its still random, but at least these unwanted items aren't going to waste.
 
The first way is probably my preference between the two options. It kinda reminds me of Binding of Isaac.

My issue with the second idea concerns the relative value of gold to legendary weapons in this game. It's not difficult to get max gold in a single day in TLOPO. You can do it in a single poker game if you have a wealthy friend or alt account inflating the pot.
 
Bart Gunshot said:
Trading has been discussed to death, and it is a very controversial topic. So let me introduce a new idea (not really - many games have it same with player trading) that will probably be just as equally controversial. I propose a system that will allow for unwanted looted famed and legendary weapons to be "re-rolled." Many times one loots famed and legendary weapons that are unwanted or simply duplicates. These famed and even legendary weapons (hello silver freeze) are trashed or not taken. And when the game drops these unwanted weapons it was simply the result of a mostly random system. You looted a famed/legendary - the game just so happened to pick one you don't want... over and over again. Maybe there should be a system to let the game randomly pick for you again.

Now this system shouldn't be free, nor should it be so pricey that no one would ever take advantage of it. This price could be implemented in a few ways. I'll lay out two ways here.

First of all, this should be done through a merchant. This makes you have to hold on to unwanted items for a bit, and therefore some amount of consequence. You would loot unwanted famed and legendary items and take them to this merchant. This merchant could be implemented in one of the following ways:
  • First way: You sell your famed/legendary to the merchant for a type of material (much like the bones or moonstones TLOPO has already implemented). Each famed/legendary will have a certain amount of material you will receive by selling it. OR it could be a flat rate 1 material for famed 2 for legendary. You would then use this material to buy essentially a slot machine roll (a re-roll). Say, 2 material for a famed roll, and 3 material for a legendary roll. You are guaranteed to get famed/legendary out of it. BUT NOT guaranteed something better.
  • Second way: Each famed/legendary is granted a single re-roll of its own type, but takes an extraordinary amount of gold to do so. Again, you are guaranteed to get a famed/legendary back, but not something better necessarily.
Of course, in either of these ways you could once again re-roll the weapon you receive from the first re-roll by repeating the same process if you received another weapon you don't want.

This removes the unknowns of trading, while still having a system that allows players to right bad luck. It requires you to have played for a long time in either way of implementing it (either in gold or in famed/legendaries). Yet it makes it so you have some more control over what you get. Its still random, but at least these unwanted items aren't going to waste.
Click to expand...
I like the first bullet, but both would work in essence. I think the first one could be abused in a way that I might even do. You go out and loot weak bosses til you're stocked to the gills with fame and low legendary, then go to the vendor and keep churning rolls until you outfit your weapon belt with your choice of legendaries. I don't doubt this will be utilized this way and I may prefer it over group boss messes.
If the game implemented something like this, it could alter my playing style.
 
Beggar said:
The first way is probably my preference between the two options. It kinda reminds me of Binding of Isaac.

My issue with the second idea concerns the relative value of gold to legendary weapons in this game. It's not difficult to get max gold in a single day in TLOPO. You can do it in a single poker game if you have a wealthy friend or alt account inflating the pot.
Click to expand...
squintz said:
I like the first bullet, but both would work in essence. I think the first one could be abused in a way that I might even do. You go out and loot weak bosses til you're stocked to the gills with fame and low legendary, then go to the vendor and keep churning rolls until you outfit your weapon belt with your choice of legendaries. I don't doubt this will be utilized this way and I may prefer it over group boss messes.
If the game implemented something like this, it could alter my playing style.
Click to expand...
I myself do prefer the first way as well. While gold is pretty useless in the end-game and needs more uses besides ship upgrades in my opinion, this probably isn't a suitable use.

As for stocking up on famed and legendary on easier targets, that would almost be a waste of time. Depending on if its a flat rate or not on famed and legendary for materials, some worse rated items could have low material value if implemented in that way. If not, it still makes more sense to farm as everyone does currently. This is because its still just as likely to get these unwanted famed and legendaries from looting enemies that can drop what you actually want. Plus re-rolling would have the same exact chance of getting one of those unwanted weapons as looting would. Although it wouldn't be as efficient, as ideally it would take MORE weapons to re-roll than what you get in return.

I feel this would give even more incentive to loot anyways. It gives a greater sense of control over what you are getting (even if it really doesn't in practice), and having an interesting interface each time you re-roll (perhaps a slot machine aesthetic) would show the player that getting some really good items (no matter how rare it is) is actually possible. It would be fun, add a new dynamic to looting, etc. To the average player looting now just feels like an endless grind for nothing in return. At least with a system like this there would be some kind of feasible obtainable goal - get enough material to re-roll.
 
I really like this idea because it still maintains the aspect of RNG in acquiring weapons because it would create more interest for end-game players who are at the point where they do not need to pick up 99% of the famed items that drop and even legendaries like patron and sf if already acquired. I also agree that the amount of investment into the system should be greater than the potential return, that way it's just an added bonus to all the goodies that you looted and want to cash in. I agree that certain weapons would need to provide less currency that would be used in the re-roll system, and similarly the weapons that you get out of the re-roll would need to be weighted so that, for example, leviathan and el patron don't have equal value seeing as they have a vast difference in the difficulty acquiring them normally.
 
Bart Gunshot said:
Of course, in either of these ways you could once again re-roll the weapon you receive from the first re-roll by repeating the same process if you received another weapon you don't want.
Click to expand...
If you're allowed to once again re-roll the new weapon if you don't want that weapon either, couldn't you just continue re-rolling unwanted items until you get the single Famed/Legendary you want? There aren't that many Legendaries.
 
Edward Stormbreaker said:
If you're allowed to once again re-roll the new weapon if you don't want that weapon either, couldn't you just continue re-rolling unwanted items until you get the single Famed/Legendary you want? There aren't that many Legendaries.
Click to expand...
Not if the resources required to do a re-roll are very hard to get.
 
Beggar said:
Not if the resources required to do a re-roll are very hard to get.
Click to expand...
The OP's first description seems to say we'd directly sell Fames/Legendaries for the material required to buy re-rolls -- in short, you're trading an old item for a new item of the same rarity at random, potentially over and over until you're satisfied.

If the OP meant each re-roll would cost a Famed/Legendary plus X gold and/or X materials, that's less abusable, but then we could have an issue with disincentivizing pirates to purchase re-rolls in the first place when there is a guarantee to lose (net) value. If I looted a Famed I already have, for example, I don't think I'd spend that Famed plus however many hundreds of materials such an expensive re-roll would cost just to get a different Famed when I could loot another Famed in less time than it took for me to get those materials in the first place.
 
Ned_Reddavis said:
I really like this idea because it still maintains the aspect of RNG in acquiring weapons because it would create more interest for end-game players who are at the point where they do not need to pick up 99% of the famed items that drop and even legendaries like patron and sf if already acquired. I also agree that the amount of investment into the system should be greater than the potential return, that way it's just an added bonus to all the goodies that you looted and want to cash in. I agree that certain weapons would need to provide less currency that would be used in the re-roll system, and similarly the weapons that you get out of the re-roll would need to be weighted so that, for example, leviathan and el patron don't have equal value seeing as they have a vast difference in the difficulty acquiring them normally.
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I think what might need to be adjusted is how the item is perceived by the gaming community. Should the item be gauged by the raw stats and abilities only? Because to try to quantify ones 'difficulty' in acquiring it goes completely into the subjective and personal realm, which is always my sticking point in all these discussions. I'd rather rate something on the pure stats and damage power and not have to create some sort of standard based on thoughts, and it should be's and "I worked so hard for it" conjecture which is totally different for each person.

I would throw out or not go by the value system that has been developed independently by players 'difficulty and times put in' yardsticks. That's fine for certain groups and personalities, but I don't think it's something that should be forced game wide.
Again, this is my opinion.
 
Edward Stormbreaker said:
The OP's first description seems to say we'd directly sell Fames/Legendaries for the material required to buy re-rolls -- in short, you're trading an old item for a new item of the same rarity at random, potentially over and over until you're satisfied.

If the OP meant each re-roll would cost a Famed/Legendary plus X gold and/or X materials, that's less abusable, but then we could have an issue with disincentivizing pirates to purchase re-rolls in the first place when there is a guarantee to lose (net) value. If I looted a Famed I already have, for example, I don't think I'd spend that Famed plus however many hundreds of materials such an expensive re-roll would cost just to get a different Famed when I could loot another Famed in less time than it took for me to get those materials in the first place.
Click to expand...
The idea is to sell legendaries and famed for a type of material. The material value would be based on the rarity of the item. Then you would use this material to buy a re-roll. However the re-roll would always be more expensive than what you would receive from a single item. This way you cannot infinitely re-roll the same item until you get what you want. Its like a 2:1 conversion rate (or even higher - not really discussing too much specifics on game balance). This is more to have some kind of use for duplicate items, or items that are simply just bad at higher levels.
 
Forgive me if I've accidentally skimmed over this being thought of already, but if over-reusability is an issue then what are everyone's thoughts on a cool-down in addition?
Perhaps the cool-down timer could be gauged by frequency of reuse, and/or by item type.

Frequency of reuse example: If you continue to keep reusing the feature in x amount of time, let's say 15 minutes, it gives a cool-down at a certain rate; 3x reuse = 15 minute cool-down, 6x = 30 minutes, etc.

Item type example: Each type has a set cool-down before trading an item of the same type; 15 minutes for famed, 30 minutes for legendary.

(Examples may be lenient or extreme based on your preferences and views, but they are only rough examples based on a concept.)
 
Bart Gunshot said:
Trading has been discussed to death, and it is a very controversial topic. So let me introduce a new idea (not really - many games have it same with player trading) that will probably be just as equally controversial. I propose a system that will allow for unwanted looted famed and legendary weapons to be "re-rolled." Many times one loots famed and legendary weapons that are unwanted or simply duplicates. These famed and even legendary weapons (hello silver freeze) are trashed or not taken. And when the game drops these unwanted weapons it was simply the result of a mostly random system. You looted a famed/legendary - the game just so happened to pick one you don't want... over and over again. Maybe there should be a system to let the game randomly pick for you again.

Now this system shouldn't be free, nor should it be so pricey that no one would ever take advantage of it. This price could be implemented in a few ways. I'll lay out two ways here.

First of all, this should be done through a merchant. This makes you have to hold on to unwanted items for a bit, and therefore some amount of consequence. You would loot unwanted famed and legendary items and take them to this merchant. This merchant could be implemented in one of the following ways:
  • First way: You sell your famed/legendary to the merchant for a type of material (much like the bones or moonstones TLOPO has already implemented). Each famed/legendary will have a certain amount of material you will receive by selling it. OR it could be a flat rate 1 material for famed 2 for legendary. You would then use this material to buy essentially a slot machine roll (a re-roll). Say, 2 material for a famed roll, and 3 material for a legendary roll. You are guaranteed to get famed/legendary out of it. BUT NOT guaranteed something better.
  • Second way: Each famed/legendary is granted a single re-roll of its own type, but takes an extraordinary amount of gold to do so. Again, you are guaranteed to get a famed/legendary back, but not something better necessarily.
Of course, in either of these ways you could once again re-roll the weapon you receive from the first re-roll by repeating the same process if you received another weapon you don't want.

This removes the unknowns of trading, while still having a system that allows players to right bad luck. It requires you to have played for a long time in either way of implementing it (either in gold or in famed/legendaries). Yet it makes it so you have some more control over what you get. Its still random, but at least these unwanted items aren't going to waste.
Click to expand...
Trading itself is not controversial. People make it controversial unnecessarily.
\Just sayin'
 
squintz said:
Trading itself is not controversial. People make it controversial unnecessarily.
\Just sayin'
Click to expand...
Thread really isn’t to discuss what’s already been discussed to death, even if I might agree with the idea of trading. And might I say that if people make something controversial in whichever way, is it not controversial?
 
Bart Gunshot said:
Thread really isn’t to discuss what’s already been discussed to death, even if I might agree with the idea of trading. And might I say that if people make something controversial in whichever way, is it not controversial?
Click to expand...
Seems only people who don't want trading state it's discussed to death. Maybe not you. It's people that make a big deal out of nothing to prove their point. It's human nature. I'm not making a big deal out of trading, it's a real simple thing to do, most my time is spent defending myself as to why I want trading. But you're correct, this thread isn't supposed to be about trading or me so in respect to you I won't take it off topic any further.
gl.
 
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