Video TLOPO Skill Changes

Misha said:
Grenades as a whole were hit with a large damage reduction. The number may pale in comparison to current live Grenade numbers, but it's actually the most effective ammo type for grenades post-nerf.
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yeah that's a mega yikes. for the rarity of the nades themselves the skill alone should be at the VERY LEAST as good as what it was before the nerf, regardless of whatever "talents" system is being implemented in the future of TLOPO.
 
Roger-Daniel said:
yeah that's a mega yikes. for the rarity of the nades themselves the skill alone should be at the VERY LEAST as good as what it was before the nerf, regardless of whatever "talents" system is being implemented in the future of TLOPO.
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The issue wasn't so much the power of the ability itself, it was the kill potential. Grenades were a one trick pony up until this nerf, and that created some monumental issues in the realm of balance with other seldom used weapons.

That's not to say that Maelstrom Charges won't later receive a buff independently to make the legendary effect more, well, legendary, but there are still a few grenade skills that aren't quite where we'd like them to be at currently. That being said, it'll be looked at.
 
Misha said:
The issue wasn't so much the power of the ability itself, it was the kill potential. Grenades were a one trick pony up until this nerf, and that created some monumental issues in the realm of balance with other seldom used weapons.

That's not to say that Maelstrom Charges won't later receive a buff independently to make the legendary effect more, well, legendary, but there are still a few grenade skills that aren't quite where we'd like them to be at currently. That being said, it'll be looked at.
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I know you guys want staff to be used more (as if the community want's that considering how laggy and much of an eyesore they are), but destroying nades in this fashion was a bit of an odd decision. They were definitely over-nerfed and I understand that they can be changed since this is on test but still.

Seems like a very odd decision to nerf a weapon in need of a buff and to buff a weapon in need of a nerf, possibly the strongest weapon in the game now - Seven Seas Repeater. I seem to remember you asking me what I think the worst legendary is on test yesterday, and I think at the time I replied with Storm Sphere as a joke, but that joke was made reality. which is a bit of a joke in and of itself
 
Roger-Daniel said:
I know you guys want staff to be used more (as if the community want's that considering how laggy and much of an eyesore they are), but destroying nades in this fashion was a bit of an odd decision. They were definitely over-nerfed and I understand that they can be changed since this is on test but still.

Seems like a very odd decision to nerf a weapon in need of a buff and to buff a weapon in need of a nerf, possibly the strongest weapon in the game now - Seven Seas Repeater. I seem to remember you asking me what I think the worst legendary is on test yesterday, and I think at the time I replied with Storm Sphere as a joke, but that joke was made reality. which is a bit of a joke in and of itself
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As you said, the numbers can be adjusted. I can say with a more than high confidence that Grenades as a whole will not return in their previous fashion. On that note, Maelstrom Charge will be looked at among the latter additions to the changes coming, but I cannot promise anything currently. Stay tuned for that.

Regarding Seven Seas Repeater, I'll look into it. Rapid Fire is in a great spot currently, and with due time I would like to keep the ability in that spot, however, the weapon as a whole will be looked at. Thanks for bringing it up.
 
Misha said:
As you said, the numbers can be adjusted. I can say with a more than high confidence that Grenades as a whole will not return in their previous fashion. On that note, Maelstrom Charge will be looked at among the latter additions to the changes coming, but I cannot promise anything currently. Stay tuned for that.

Regarding Seven Seas Repeater, I'll look into it. Rapid Fire is in a great spot currently, and with due time I would like to keep the ability in that spot, however, the weapon as a whole will be looked at. Thanks for bringing it up.
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No disrespect intended, but are you a DEV as you use 'I' a lot like you have capacity to make changes yourself, or is that just a figure of speech or used as a personal opinion? I'm a bit confused to the use of the prose.
 
squintz said:
No disrespect intended, but are you a DEV as you use 'I' a lot like you have capacity to make changes yourself, or is that just a figure of speech or used as a personal opinion? I'm a bit confused to the use of the prose.
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No worries, @squintz, I understand. While I'm not the 'Developer' that directly implements the changes that I am discussing, I am the one that has been concepting the weapon and break attack skill changes that have gone live on the Public Test Server. I'm not the coder, per se, rather I'm putting the numbers on paper to be inputted.

With that being said, I am one of the Multimedia Developers, so I guess development is a bit loosely worded terminology.
 
Misha said:
Grenades as a whole were hit with a large damage reduction. The number may pale in comparison to current live Grenade numbers, but it's actually the most effective ammo type for grenades post-nerf.
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You said that grenades as a whole were given a large damage reduction, but that isn't apparent on Test at all. This leads me to believe that the reason that Maelstrom does way less damage is either it was specifically nerfed manually, or grenades are even more nerfed as a whole on QA where Teague recorded that video. In addition, i'd ideally like to see what Maelstrom looks like on Test right now because of the fact that we know that nades ONLY have a nerf to explosive and siege, and a buff to Maelstrom. Both of these changes are the only changes made to grenade listed in the patch notes for Test.
1577499067058.png

Also im aware that stink pot and fire bomb will be receiving damage reductions in the future as well.
Whenever TLOPO makes a balance change it's either way too overpowered or way to awfully underpowered. Rip JSB and Rip nades
 
Roger-Daniel said:
You said that grenades as a whole were given a large damage reduction, but that isn't apparent on Test at all. This leads me to believe that the reason that Maelstrom does way less damage is either it was specifically nerfed manually, or grenades are even more nerfed as a whole on QA where Teague recorded that video. In addition, i'd ideally like to see what Maelstrom looks like on Test right now because of the fact that we know that nades ONLY have a nerf to explosive and siege, and a buff to Maelstrom. Both of these changes are the only changes made to grenade listed in the patch notes for Test.
View attachment 117907
Also im aware that stink pot and fire bomb will be receiving damage reductions in the future as well.
Whenever TLOPO makes a balance change it's either way too overpowered or way to awfully underpowered. Rip JSB and Rip nades
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Again, nothing is final, we’ve tried making this clear. This is what Test is for.
 
Roger-Daniel said:
Whenever TLOPO makes a balance change it's either way too overpowered or way to awfully underpowered. Rip JSB and Rip nades
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I disagree with this whole heartedly. Item balance is a really hard thing especially in games like this. League has been doing it for years and they still mess up from time to time.

That bring said grenades were horrendously strong in game for how easy it was to obtain them as a weapon.

I think in their current form they are without a doubt in less of a bad spot than they were before. I haven't gotten to play around with them yet but looking at the numbers they do seem a little to weak now.

Situations like this are exactly why we have the need for a test server after all. Changes in the test server are 100% not confirmed at all, just because it makes it to test doesn't mean that it will make it to live ( like the SOTL in potco)

This community has a history of jumping on the "they ruined this portion of the game" bandwagon when they are just trying to bring balance a little closer together. Jsb was an insane item, and if I'm not mistaken now that the 'Powerful' ability is changed it should once again feel like a super strong legendary item
 
Stephen Teague said:
Again, nothing is final, we’ve tried making this clear. This is what Test is for.
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yes that is fair, originally I made this post to bring up the fact that nades were apparently "nerfed as a whole" yet only explosive and siege were, which made me think that Maelstrom was specifically nerfed manually by someone and then said to be buffed in the patch notes. Frankly it confused me.
Regardless though, given what you guys said about JSB after it got nerfed, i was a bit spooked.
Just didn't sit right with me that there's a good chance you guys are doing this just to push your "talents" endgame system which doesn't mean well for where grenades will sit after they are finalized
 
Christopher Cannonskull said:
I disagree with this whole heartedly. Item balance is a really hard thing especially in games like this. League has been doing it for years and they still mess up from time to time.

That bring said grenades were horrendously strong in game for how easy it was to obtain them as a weapon.

I think in their current form they are without a doubt in less of a bad spot than they were before. I haven't gotten to play around with them yet but looking at the numbers they do seem a little to weak now.

Situations like this are exactly why we have the need for a test server after all. Changes in the test server are 100% not confirmed at all, just because it makes it to test doesn't mean that it will make it to live ( like the SOTL in potco)

This community has a history of jumping on the "they ruined this portion of the game" bandwagon when they are just trying to bring balance a little closer together. Jsb was an insane item, and if I'm not mistaken now that the 'Powerful' ability is changed it should once again feel like a super strong legendary item
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Listen i'm fully maxed on test. Wither does more damage than a siege charge and doesn't have a single drawback that a grenade does. As they stand right now, grenades are dead. These comments that I'm posting are ENTIRELY just feedback, I know that this isn't final but there is no point in just saying "nades are too weak right now" when you can give reason and proof and actual numbers.
This is all just my feedback for it to be changed for better or for worse based on my.. tests ;)
 
Roger-Daniel said:
Listen i'm fully maxed on test. Wither does more damage than a siege charge and doesn't have a single drawback that a grenade does. As they stand right now, grenades are dead. These comments that I'm posting are ENTIRELY just feedback, I know that this isn't final but there is no point in just saying "nades are too weak right now" when you can give reason and proof and actual numbers.
This is all just my feedback for it to be changed for better or for worse based on my.. tests ;)
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To clarify, and I didn't mean to insinuate it, that comment about people always looking at it the worst possible wasn't meant to be directed at you.

You are coming with actually feedback and numbers instead of just saying it's bad without being able to provide explanation, sorry if it came across as me attacking you :(

We also don't know for sure if what we're seeing currently on test is even accurate, they could be bugged out because of the pyp update
 
Christopher Cannonskull said:
To clarify, and I didn't mean to insinuate it, that comment about people always looking at it the worst possible wasn't meant to be directed at you.

You are coming with actually feedback and numbers instead of just saying it's bad without being able to provide explanation, sorry if it came across as me attacking you :(

We also don't know for sure if what we're seeing currently on test is even accurate, they could be bugged out because of the pyp update
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Don't worry about it lol
We know that the numbers for explosive and siege we are seeing are at least accurate to what TLOPO put into the game from the test server patch notes and the video that Teague posted. although the video Teague posted has a siege charge that does even less than what it's doing on Test so that basically confirms my suspicion I think. Again I just want to make public that I know that these numbers are not final haha
1577503756697.png
 
"Whenever TLOPO makes a balance change it's either way too overpowered or way to awfully underpowered. Rip JSB and Rip nades."

It seems the staff did exactly what the looting community wanted in all cases of nerfs. The staff complied as requested.
I thought this was a good thing that the staff listened to complaints and input.
It's always true that they can't make everyone happy.
And this being a test bed, even players best efforts and sweat equity doing their own testing may or may not fit in viably with the developers test parameters. The numbers still are speculative. Even the staff numbers are speculative.

It may be best to hold off publicly about the test server info until the staff opens the thread for you testers, where this kind of information would be much more palatable and expected.
 
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squintz said:
"Whenever TLOPO makes a balance change it's either way too overpowered or way to awfully underpowered. Rip JSB and Rip nades."

It seems the staff did exactly what the looting community wanted in all cases of nerfs. The staff complied as requested.
I thought this was a good thing that the staff listened to complaints and input.
It's always true that they can't make everyone happy.
And this being a test bed, even players best efforts and sweat equity doing their own testing may or may not fit in viably with the developers test parameters. The numbers still are speculative. Even the staff numbers are speculative.

It may be best to hold off publicly about the test server info until the staff opens the thread for you testers, where this kind of information would be much more palatable and expected.
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Im not sure if that first point is entirely true. I dont think anyone was asking for nades to be nerfed, but when tlopo said that they will be I think many people, including those with sphere, thought that the nerf would be beneficial to balance and wouldn't be as massive as the nerf that tlopo has put in place on their QA and Test server. anyway this was a thread about the changes added to the test server so I thought I talking about it was appropriate ig.
 
"We recently updated many of the skill changes in the game. In this video, I'm showing a few of them off. Unfortunately, several skills take a long time to charge up, so I skipped them in the video. This video by no means shows every skill changed, just some of them. I'll likely upload GIFs to this thread showing the damage from the other skills in a bit. "

Sorry, I didn't catch where he said test server. Didn't have time to watch the vids yet, so maybe thats where he said or showed something.
 
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