Discussion MBTI in Pirates of the Caribbean

Captain Jack Truesilver said:
They include that sound a few times in the fourth movie, but that's about it. And I'm as disappointed as you are about it. I freaking love that sound.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ySxfkhbt9Q&list=PLDmdF1ma6cZo3qkCQBTYJShH5SuycDNLK&index=19


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4zrHwOmiEk&list=PLDmdF1ma6cZqTq8tklBHNTyuuyQm73mZB

As you might have come to infer, I'm a bit of a soundtrack nerd. And a shameless one at that.
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Better a Nerd than a Prep, anyways.

I'll be excited for the 6th movie's soundtrack and what may come.

Predictions are
fight for control of Dutchman with Davy vs Will as shown by Davy's re-appearance in the postcredits scene of the 5th movie.
 
Marshal Soult said:
Better a Nerd than a Prep, anyways.

I'll be excited for the 6th movie's soundtrack and what may come.

Predictions are
fight for control of Dutchman with Davy vs Will as shown by Davy's re-appearance in the postcredits scene of the 5th movie.
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Well, this is assuming that a sixth film will in fact be released. If it happens, they had better write Jack's character properly. He was the worst part of the fifth film.

Yeah, that's what I assume will happen as well, though. I wonder what else might occur, now that every spell at sea has been rendered nonexistent. I'd be interested to see a war between the sea gods and the Brethren. Maybe. It may sound ludicrous, but this franchise needs to end, and it needs to end in one giant finale.

I don't even understand how the Trident could possibly have any effect on the crew of the Dutchman. It isn't a curse in the same sense that it was for the crews of the Black Pearl, Queen Anne's Revenge, and Silent Mary. It's merely a duty that someone is charged with. So for Will to suddenly be free of his duties implies that there is now nobody to ferry souls into the next world...which should then mean that Will would suffer the same consequences as Jones did, barnacles and all.

The fifth movie, again, created way too many continuity errors. I don't believe that the writers even studied their source material before drafting a script.
 
Captain Jack Truesilver said:
Well, this is assuming that a sixth film will in fact be released. If it happens, they had better write Jack's character properly. He was the worst part of the fifth film.

Yeah, that's what I assume will happen as well, though. I wonder what else might occur, now that every spell at sea has been rendered nonexistent. I'd be interested to see a war between the sea gods and the Brethren. Maybe. It may sound ludicrous, but this franchise needs to end, and it needs to end in one giant finale.

I don't even understand how the Trident could possibly have any effect on the crew of the Dutchman. It isn't a curse in the same sense that it was for the crews of the Black Pearl, Queen Anne's Revenge, and Silent Mary. It's merely a duty that someone is charged with. So for Will to suddenly be free of his duties implies that there is now nobody to ferry souls into the next world...which should then mean that Will would suffer the same consequences as Jones did, barnacles and all.

The fifth movie, again, created way too many continuity errors. I don't believe that the writers even studied their source material before drafting a script.
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Using somewhat wishful thinking, I've entertained the idea of Beckett and/or the EITC being resurrected in a semi-Salazar fashion by some trick of the Devil (possibly very literally because of Beckett's apparently good business skills).

Could be an entertaining twist for the showdown between Captain and former Captain.

Facing another obstacle, the King, could also be interesting.

It might have been rushed to meet a deadline of some sort that I can't think of at the moment, but as a film, the 5th movie was alright. I expect that the 6th movie will learn from some of its major mistakes and improve.
 
Marshal Soult said:
Using somewhat wishful thinking, I've entertained the idea of Beckett and/or the EITC being resurrected in a semi-Salazar fashion by some trick of the Devil (possibly very literally because of Beckett's apparently good business skills).

Could be an entertaining twist for the showdown between Captain and former Captain.

Facing another obstacle, the King, could also be interesting.

It might have been rushed to meet a deadline of some sort that I can't think of at the moment, but as a film, the 5th movie was alright. I expect that the 6th movie will learn from some of its major mistakes and improve.
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Yeah, as a standalone film, it wasn't too bad. As a sequel...it was pretty weak.

And an epic battle between Will and Jones would be...jeez, that would be wonderful.
 
What the heck does any of this mean? A simple overview of this system would be nice so people could at least understand what you’re saying.

It seems this discussion has diverged into movie opinions, so I’m going to share my lineup from best to worst.

1, 2=3, 4, 5.

With 4 bing variable to change, since I need to rewatch it.

5 is an attrocity that has absolutely no redeeming qualities.
 
Marc Swordbreaker said:
What the heck does any of this mean? A simple overview of this system would be nice so people could at least understand what you’re saying.

It seems this discussion has diverged into movie opinions, so I’m going to share my lineup from best to worst.

1, 2=3, 4, 5.

With 4 bing variable to change, since I need to rewatch it.

5 is an attrocity that has absolutely no redeeming qualities.
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This discussion is for people who are already familiar with MBTI. There isn't really any "simple overview" that would adequately explain this personality typing system.
 
Marc Swordbreaker said:
So I assume it’s complicated?
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Very.

It's a personality typing system, essentially, and it's among the most accurate out there (though, in psychology, the Big 5 OCEAN test is the only one utilized). MBTI tends to help people gain a better understanding of themselves and others, particularly in regards to the various cognitive differences among individuals.

So, what we've done here in this thread is assign each of the characters from the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise one of the sixteen personality types that we believe they happen to possess. And we're debating the validity of each others' claims. Ultimately pointless, but still fun.
 
Captain Jack Truesilver said:
Yo, what about Anamaria? Can she even be typed? I'd say she's at least a thinker, or an otherwise very embittered FJ of some kind.
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Very little shown of her but a quick, rough-handed typing would probably be ESTJ.

Not afraid to be in charge, willingly takes captainship of the boat when Jack's gone. - Te
"You promised me a boat." Also the first one to encourage the others to keep to the code when Jack is said to have fallen behind. - Si
 
Marshal Soult said:
Very little shown of her but a quick, rough-handed typing would probably be ESTJ.

Not afraid to be in charge, willingly takes captainship of the boat when Jack's gone. - Te
"You promised me a boat." Also the first one to encourage the others to keep to the code when Jack is said to have fallen behind. - Si
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I was personally leaning for ISTJ or ESTJ as well, once I started thinking about it. It's a shame Zoe Saldana didn't want to return for the later installments. I feel like she could have been a better alternative to Angelica in the fourth one, based solely on the fact that she already had a connection to the previous movies.

Not to mention that she's (slightly, mind you) more attractive than Penelope Cruz in my own opinion.
 
I feel the need to make a revision on my list. After recently viewing 'On Stranger Tides' again, I realized that Angelica actually seemed like more of an unhealthy ISFJ than an ENFP. She's very manipulative in an emotional way (Fe), for one. Also, her entire motivation revolves around what someone (Jack) did to her in the past, and she's so completely dead set on revenge that she refuses to forgive Jack, even though it's pretty clear to everyone else that he's actually well-intentioned and only wants to keep her safe. That would be Si at work. Too much Si. And too much reliance on the dominant function can take you in some strange places.

Ready, set, debate.
 
Captain Jack Truesilver said:
I feel the need to make a revision on my list. After recently viewing 'On Stranger Tides' again, I realized that Angelica actually seemed like more of an unhealthy ISFJ than an ENFP. She's very manipulative in an emotional way (Fe), for one. Also, her entire motivation revolves around what someone (Jack) did to her in the past, and she's so completely dead set on revenge that she refuses to forgive Jack, even though it's pretty clear to everyone else that he's actually well-intentioned and only wants to keep her safe. That would be Si at work. Too much Si. And too much reliance on the dominant function can take you in some strange places.

Ready, set, debate.
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I can't offer any serious critique in the realm of details, but I can critique your method.

What's your case for inferior Ne?
 
Marshal Soult said:
I can't offer any serious critique in the realm of details, but I can critique your method.

What's your case for inferior Ne?
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Hmm, you might have me on that one, but let me give it a try.

No matter how many times Jack warns her of Blackbeard's propensity for evil (even against her), she refuses to listen. She remains hellbent on her plan to sabotage Jack and save her father. So a narrow-minded fixation on one goal and an unwillingness to alter course sounds like an unhealthy Si/Ne axis to me. And if not that, then an Ni/Se axis might be my second guess, since they can be somewhat similar from that vantage. Although, she doesn't strike me as an intuitive the more that I watch the movie. She seems like a stereotypical female ISFJ villain. Or really just any ISFJ female character who's been wronged by the ExTP male. I don't expect many INFJs, as insular as Ni can sometimes be (I would know), to stoop to something as petty as revenge.
 
Marshal Soult said:
Ah, I've been meaning to get to this.

  • Elizabeth Swann: ESTJ - See how she ridicules people for inefficiency or refusing to keep up good standards.
  • Will Turner: ISFJ/TP - Either works.
  • Captain Jack Sparrow: ENTP - Eeyup, though I've pondered ESTP.
  • Captain Hector Barbossa: He's a bit of a mystery. I could see him as anything from an INTP to an ESTJ.
  • Commodore James Norrington: xSTJ
  • Governor Weatherby Swann: ISFJ - See how he cares so dearly for Elizabeth and his giving in to her.
  • Joshamee Gibbs: ISTJ - Resourceful, loyal, and adheres to the traditions of pirating.

  • Lord Cutler Beckett: xNTJ - Te and Ni are certain.
  • Tia Dalma: ENFJ - Her focus is mainly on people, even though Ni is pretty evident.
  • Davy Jones: INFP - Good one.
  • Bootstrap Bill: ISFP - I've debated him, and I can't quite figure him out.

  • Sao Feng: Probably an ISTP

  • Angelica: ENFP - Sure? I just watched the first 3 movies in a row just this weekend, but I didn't get to the 4th.
  • Blackbeard: I suspect an ExTx, and probably not an ENTP.
  • Philip: IxFx
  • Syrena: INFP - No idea

Don't know a thing about the others.

Soult is, as far as I've planned him, definitely an Se-user and a T-type, a probable introvert.
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So what makes you think that Jack is ESTP? I've heard it argued that it is because his sole goal throughout all of the movies is to acquire and hold onto the Black Pearl, but that's not accurate. His goal throughout all of the movies is freedom. Even in the fifth one.

Jack's motive in Curse of the Black Pearl:

Jack: "Really bad eggs...! When I get the Pearl back, I'm gonna teach it to the whole crew. And we'll sing it all the time!"
Elizabeth: "And you will be positively the most fearsome pirates in the Spanish Main!"
Jack: "Not just the Spanish Main, love - the entire ocean. The entire world. Wherever we want to go, we go. That's what a ship is, you know; it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs. But what a ship is - what the Black Pearl really is - is freedom."

Jack's motive in Dead Man's Chest:

Time has run out, and he has a debt to pay to Davy Jones. In exchange for thirteen years of freedom aboard the Pearl, Jack must now serve one hundred years aboard the Flying Dutchman. He will become bound to the ship until he becomes a part of it, which means that Davy Jones has actually offered him a raw deal from whence there is no escape...unless he acquires Jones' heart and uses it as leverage to maintain his freedom.

Jack's motive in At World's End:

Stabbing the heart means becoming captain of the Flying Dutchman. "Free forever. Free to sail beyond the edges of the map, free from death itself." That quote, I don't think, is exact. Essentially, Jack equates immortality with freedom.

This goal spills over into On Stranger Tides:

"I shall taste those waters, Master Gibbs. Mark my words."

Jack's motive in Dead Men Tell No Tales:

Free the Pearl, regain freedom, get off of St. Martin and back out to sea. Also acquire Poseidon's Trident and escape certain death from Salazar.


Jack views the Black Pearl conceptually, as a vessel that grants him freedom. He also views Davy Jones' heart, the Fountain of Youth, and the Trident of Poseidon through the same lens. Imbuing objects with meaning of a more abstract and conceptual nature is an intuitive thing. And freedom is generally among an ENTP's most highly cherished values. His goal is freedom.

Thoughts?
 
Captain Jack Truesilver said:
So what makes you think that Jack is ESTP? I've heard it argued that it is because his sole goal throughout all of the movies is to acquire and hold onto the Black Pearl, but that's not accurate. His goal throughout all of the movies is freedom. Even in the fifth one.

Jack's motive in Curse of the Black Pearl:

Jack: "Really bad eggs...! When I get the Pearl back, I'm gonna teach it to the whole crew. And we'll sing it all the time!"
Elizabeth: "And you will be positively the most fearsome pirates in the Spanish Main!"
Jack: "Not just the Spanish Main, love - the entire ocean. The entire world. Wherever we want to go, we go. That's what a ship is, you know; it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs. But what a ship is - what the Black Pearl really is - is freedom."

Jack's motive in Dead Man's Chest:

Time has run out, and he has a debt to pay to Davy Jones. In exchange for thirteen years of freedom aboard the Pearl, Jack must now serve one hundred years aboard the Flying Dutchman. He will become bound to the ship until he becomes a part of it, which means that Davy Jones has actually offered him a raw deal from whence there is no escape...unless he acquires Jones' heart and uses it as leverage to maintain his freedom.

Jack's motive in At World's End:

Stabbing the heart means becoming captain of the Flying Dutchman. "Free forever. Free to sail beyond the edges of the map, free from death itself." That quote, I don't think, is exact. Essentially, Jack equates immortality with freedom.

This goal spills over into On Stranger Tides:

"I shall taste those waters, Master Gibbs. Mark my words."

Jack's motive in Dead Men Tell No Tales:

Free the Pearl, regain freedom, get off of St. Martin and back out to sea. Also acquire Poseidon's Trident and escape certain death from Salazar.


Jack views the Black Pearl conceptually, as a vessel that grants him freedom. He also views Davy Jones' heart, the Fountain of Youth, and the Trident of Poseidon through the same lens. Imbuing objects with meaning of a more abstract and conceptual nature is an intuitive thing. And freedom is generally among an ENTP's most highly cherished values. His goal is freedom.

Thoughts?
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That was an interesting misunderstanding, though it's smart that you've pointed out his ideals are abstract and not particularly tied to certain material things, as much as he enjoys them. You could compare him with Barbossa when they both reach their goal of getting the Black Pearl:
  • Barbossa eventually becomes a Pirate Lord and enjoys luxuries of every kind.
  • Sparrow wears the exact same clothing and makes his crew frustrated because he's chasing after unproven ideas about treasures.

I said "I've pondered ESTP", not "I think he's an ESTP, not an ENTP", though if you'd like me to explore the case with you, I will.

On another note, I've figured out more pieces to the puzzle for myself:
INTP or ENTJ (NT Thinking dom, that's to say)
1w9 5w6 3w4
So/Sp
LII for Socionics (some might argue LIE)
 
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Marshal Soult said:
That was an interesting misunderstanding, though it's smart that you've pointed out his ideals are abstract and not particularly tied to certain material things, as much as he enjoys them. You could compare him with Barbossa when they both reach their goal of getting the Black Pearl:
  • Barbossa eventually becomes a Pirate Lord and enjoys luxuries of every kind.
  • Sparrow wears the exact same clothing and makes his crew frustrated because he's chasing after unproven ideas about treasures.

I said "I've pondered ESTP", not "I think he's an ESTP, not an ENTP", though if you'd like me to explore the case with you, I will.

On another note, I've figured out more pieces to the puzzle for myself:
INTP or ENTJ (NT Thinking dom, that's to say)
1w9 5w6 3w4
So/Sp
LII for Socionics (some might argue LIE)
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Yeah, I'm still interested in hearing your case for ESTP. In fact, that's what I actually wanted anyways. I've just posited my reasons for why I personally think that is not the case.

You're still unsure as to your own type? Why's that?
 
Captain Jack Truesilver said:
Yeah, I'm still interested in hearing your case for ESTP. In fact, that's what I actually wanted anyways. I've just posited my reasons for why I personally think that is not the case.

You're still unsure as to your own type? Why's that?
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Possible points in favor of ESTP that I see are:
  • His tendency to inebriate himself whenever he gets the chance (Se)
  • His very quick thinking when it comes to making moves in fights, e.g. choosing where to run/move (Se)
  • His tendency to jump at many of the challenges he faces, risking bodily harm, e.g. the Kraken or Barbossa (Se)
  • His protectiveness over the Pearl and his hellbent goal on killing Barbossa (Inferior Ni)

As for myself, it comes down to a great number of things.

It might be a little confusing, but I prefer Te slightly over Ti, as I see it, but I also heavily prefer inferior Fe over inferior Fi. The 1w9 also makes a lot of my moralizing disguise itself as Fi, thus making the decision there difficult, too. Being able to compare myself to my INTJ brother confuses me even further as, compared to him, I look like an ENTP or even an ESTP, and I'm an introvert around extraverts but an extravert around introverts. There's... a lot to it; it's very confusing for me and anyone else trying.
If it interests you, we could continue the conversation here or in Discord.

Lord, I need to watch these movies again.
 
Marshal Soult said:
Possible points in favor of ESTP that I see are:
  • His tendency to inebriate himself whenever he gets the chance (Se)
  • His very quick thinking when it comes to making moves in fights, e.g. choosing where to run/move (Se)
  • His tendency to jump at many of the challenges he faces, risking bodily harm, e.g. the Kraken or Barbossa (Se)
  • His protectiveness over the Pearl and his hellbent goal on killing Barbossa (Inferior Ni)

As for myself, it comes down to a great number of things.

It might be a little confusing, but I prefer Te slightly over Ti, as I see it, but I also heavily prefer inferior Fe over inferior Fi. The 1w9 also makes a lot of my moralizing disguise itself as Fi, thus making the decision there difficult, too. Being able to compare myself to my INTJ brother confuses me even further as, compared to him, I look like an ENTP or even an ESTP, and I'm an introvert around extraverts but an extravert around introverts. There's... a lot to it; it's very confusing for me and anyone else trying.
If it interests you, we could continue the conversation here or in Discord.

Lord, I need to watch these movies again.
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Good analysis.

I would argue, however, that while Jack is a decent fighter, most anyone he fights is better than he is, forcing him to resort to his creativity. Take his first sword fight with Will, for example. Jack fairs okay, but Will is an intensely-dedicated swordsman, and so Jack attempts to outsmart him multiple times to win and escape. Outsmarting everyone is pretty much Jack's whole shtick. And who's to say Ne users can't be physical? Most inventors, whether in fiction or in real life, tend to be Ne users, always manipulating the things they see around them in innovative ways.

He's ridiculously creative to the point of being regarded by others as insane.

Beckett: "You're mad..."
Jack: "Thank goodness for that, because if I wasn't, this would probably never work."

Not all intuitives are necessarily intellectuals, though they do have a high proclivity towards being that way.​

And his hellbent goal on killing Barbossa, I would contend, is just as likely a result of inferior Si. In fact, Jack's very focus on resolving something from his past (i.e. killing Barbossa) would support that.


Also...this...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9eGeFqJzt4
 
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