Suggestion Ship Class Balance Changes

Wildbane

Wildbane

Sea Legs
I would like to eventually see ship stats changed closer to how the shipwrights describe them, suited more towards a pirates specific play style and hopefully results in seeing more variety among end game pirates.

According to shipwrights:
  • Sloops are "the fastest and most maneuverable ship class", yet do not seem to quite live up to that claim, and have the same speed value as a brig (10).
  • Galleons supposedly have "the toughest armor amongst ship classes", but a War Galleon a hull value of 10800, compared to the War Frigate's 12600 and the War Brig's 12000.
  • Frigates are said to "pack the most firepower, sporting many cannons and strong below deck capacity", with 14 on-deck cannons and 20 broadsides. However, the War Galleon outnumbers the War Frigate with 4 more broadsides, as the War Brig has 2 more broadsides
  • Brigs are said to be "second best at everything", a "jack of all trades, but a master of none". To summarize above, they have the same speed value as the supposed "fast" ship, more hull health than the "tough" ship, and more cannons than the "firepower " ship.
I suggest changing the ship base stats to better represent what is claimed about them. Make sloops even faster and maneuverable, able to sail circles around its bigger, slower counterparts. Make galleons be hulking sea-fortresses, slower, with less broadsides but having health to rival that of the ship-of-the-line. Make frigates have the most cannons, both above and bellow deck, to truly have the firepower it deserves. Make the brig actually be second at speed, health, and firepower, master of none. Or, better yet, make it the best at cargo capacity, swapping its cargo with that of the galleon.

Even though it will change a part of the game everyone has grown used to, I believe changes to the base stats of each ship class will result in more diversity among ships you see on loot runs, sailing styles more tailored towards how each pirate likes to sail, and overall a more enjoyable playing experience.
 
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I like the idea. I'll take a huge buff to my war frigate :). You're right, it would allow players to take their ships to more extreme levels. But, if you turn the war frigate into an even better gunship (I'm imagining 20mm phalanx deck guns and 120mm HE broadsides), everyone will be using it against ai without exception. The only reason why it's not the only ship people use now is due to the brig's broadside being slightly higher. If balancing occurs, it will have the opposite effect; everyone will use the war frigate for ai combat and a type of sloop(or frigate) for SvS. Instead if galleon being the only class that's rarely used, the brig will join it in the graveyard.
 
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It'd also be a huge problem for the devs to redo ship models if you change the amount of cannons, so that idea's out. Really the only problem with ships right now is the galleon. Just give the armor a huge buff and we're :). That would pull the class out of disuse, especially coupled with copperhead. Perhaps the sloops' speed and acceleration could be buffed too.
 
Flight1700 said:
I like the idea. I'll take a huge buff to my war frigate :). You're right, it would allow players to take their ships to more extreme levels. But, if you turn the war frigate into an even better gunship (I'm imagining 20mm phalanx deck guns and 120mm HE broadsides), everyone will be using it against ai without exception. The only reason why it's not the only ship people use now is due to the brig's broadside being slightly higher. If balancing occurs, it will have the opposite effect; everyone will use the war frigate for ai combat and a type of sloop(or frigate) for SvS. Instead if galleon being the only class that's rarely used, the brig will join it in the graveyard.
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Flight1700 said:
It'd also be a huge problem for the devs to redo ship models if you change the amount of cannons, so that idea's out. Really the only problem with ships right now is the galleon. Just give the armor a huge buff and we're :). That would pull the class out of disuse, especially coupled with copperhead. Perhaps the sloops' speed and acceleration could be buffed too.
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Remodeling wouldn't be that hard and 4eguardless it would be even simpler still to just add an extra shot to eq h broadside cannon since some fire more than 1 already. Also that eould be the case because the war frigate is overpowered to balance it thr eay thr game says it's armor needs to go down and the gallons needs to go up . A balanced war frigate would only have a little stronger hull than a war sloop but a lot of firepower. And that would leave plenty of diversity for svs as well
 
Flight1700 said:
I like the idea. I'll take a huge buff to my war frigate :). You're right, it would allow players to take their ships to more extreme levels. But, if you turn the war frigate into an even better gunship (I'm imagining 20mm phalanx deck guns and 120mm HE broadsides), everyone will be using it against ai without exception. The only reason why it's not the only ship people use now is due to the brig's broadside being slightly higher. If balancing occurs, it will have the opposite effect; everyone will use the war frigate for ai combat and a type of sloop(or frigate) for SvS. Instead if galleon being the only class that's rarely used, the brig will join it in the graveyard.
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Like Chris said in the previous post, my suggestions come with the stipulation that an effort is made to make ships on the seas more diverse, and thus ultimately evenly balanced. With each classes buffs, I would expect to see weaknesses. For instance, a debuff to the frigate class's armor, speed, and/or cargo in favor of more cannons and broadsides would keep it from becoming too overpowered and overused, and still allow each ship a more unique style of sailing.

In the end-game of POTCO, it was obvious War Brigs made up the largest population of ships for loot runs among mastered pirates because it was simply by far the best ship stat-wise, not just from more broadsides, but additionally because it has the speed of a sloop while still having the same amount of on deck cannons and virtually the same hull health (only 2 hits from round shots less) as the War Frigate. The War Frigate only was in minor circulation due to it being cheaper and more aesthetically pleasing to some pirates, and War Galleons were a very rare sight to see for a pirate in the end-game phase. In SvS, looking at the highest scoring ships, War Sloops, though slightly higher in popularity here than in looting, were still overshadowed in favor of crewed-up War Brigs and Light Sloops.

To re-iterate, my end goal is to see more diversity among ships, as well as giving each ship a more unique feel to it, and I strongly believe balancing ship classes somewhat along these lines would achieve this.
 
Wildbane said:
Like Chris said in the previous post, my suggestions come with the stipulation that an effort is made to make ships on the seas more diverse, and thus ultimately evenly balanced. With each classes buffs, I would expect to see weaknesses. For instance, a debuff to the frigate class's armor, speed, and/or cargo in favor of more cannons and broadsides would keep it from becoming too overpowered and overused, and still allow each ship a more unique style of sailing.

In the end-game of POTCO, it was obvious War Brigs made up the largest population of ships for loot runs among mastered pirates because it was simply by far the best ship stat-wise, not just from more broadsides, but additionally because it has the speed of a sloop while still having the same amount of on deck cannons and virtually the same hull health (only 2 hits from round shots less) as the War Frigate. The War Frigate only was in minor circulation due to it being cheaper and more aesthetically pleasing to some pirates, and War Galleons were a very rare sight to see for a pirate in the end-game phase. In SvS, looking at the highest scoring ships, War Sloops, though slightly higher in popularity here than in looting, were still overshadowed in favor of crewed-up War Brigs and Light Sloops.

To re-iterate, my end goal is to see more diversity among ships, as well as giving each ship a more unique feel to it, and I strongly believe balancing ship classes somewhat along these lines would achieve this.
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Well, I feel if you're going to adjust armor, more thought should be put into the code concerning WHERE this armor is supposed to be. The frigate's front is basically a steel plate; it's used for ramming. Furthermore, the frigate should be the second fastest ship in the game, after sloop. I feel being tied with brig right now is fair, no changes should be made there.
 
Well granted you're counting the Galleons Hull health which is effected after your armor is depleted. It's considered to be the most armored, not have the most health, but there's not way to know exactly how much armor a ship has.

Frigate lives up to sporting the most firepower, as it has the most deck cannons which are actually stronger than broadsides, it says "with strong below deck broadside capability." Which doesn't actually mean it's supposed to have more.

And brigs well they're balanced in the sense that they have speed, second most broadsides, second most on deck cannons, second most hull health, and tied at second most cargo space, which makes them a jack of all trades.

I feel the only real issue is the war sloop should be faster, it's the only ship that doesn't really live up to it's info text.
 
I think the only real buff needed is another knot of speed for the sloop to bring it up to 11. This would actually make it the fastest ship instead of being tied with the Brig.
 
AceOfThieves said:
I still completely prefer my Frigate over a brig hands down.
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Lol yeah. Brigs will never have zee
IMG_2045.PNG
 
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