TheramoreIsTheBomb
Honorable Pirate
Would be what?
-
Attention: The forums are in read-only mode
Discussion Strongest Upgrade for a Warbrig
- Thread starter TheramoreIsTheBomb
- Start date
C
Crashalot
Mathematically speaking, and depending on your skill points used, the War Brig Storm Chaser level 6 is the most powerful in the game. You'd have to have your broadside skills maxed for sailing, as well as your cannon shot for basic shot and thunderbolt as well as barrage skill for cannons. Some have mentioned that the demolitions skill for grenades also affects damage points, but I'm not sure about that skill. With 45% maxed thunderbolt, you're getting 45 thunderbolts out of every 100 shots fired from the broadsides.
Now many will argue that explosives for copperhead level 6 are the best, and mathematically speaking, it is equal to Storm Chaser in damage points. The problem with the copperhead is that you only get those explosives 15% of the time, which means 15 explosives for every 100 shots fired from the broadsides. That means there will be times, many in fact, where no explosives are shot, which means you're relying on round shot only. That can get dicey.
Not to mention how painfully slow a copperhead is, leaving you vulnerable, and that the storm chaser is the fastest ship in the game.
There is no ship in the game, other than the exceptional Hunters and Warships, that cannot be sunk with a single broadside from a Storm Chaser war brig, every time, when done properly. The same cannot be said for any other ship upgrade.
Now many will argue that explosives for copperhead level 6 are the best, and mathematically speaking, it is equal to Storm Chaser in damage points. The problem with the copperhead is that you only get those explosives 15% of the time, which means 15 explosives for every 100 shots fired from the broadsides. That means there will be times, many in fact, where no explosives are shot, which means you're relying on round shot only. That can get dicey.
Not to mention how painfully slow a copperhead is, leaving you vulnerable, and that the storm chaser is the fastest ship in the game.
There is no ship in the game, other than the exceptional Hunters and Warships, that cannot be sunk with a single broadside from a Storm Chaser war brig, every time, when done properly. The same cannot be said for any other ship upgrade.
Last edited by a moderator:
TheramoreIsTheBomb
Honorable Pirate
Wow. Never even thought of this. Thank you.
Dreadful
Notorious Pirate
It's worth noting, though, that Stormchaser has no additional armor or cargo space. Personally I'm putting Stormchaser on my War Frigate for the same reasons the above user stated, but for my War Brig I'm doing Fortune Hunter, since I'm going for more of a Striker build with my frigate and a plundering/overall build with my brig.
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
I just want to point out if you do the math for average damage per broadside, Copperhead comes out on top.
So while you're not wrong about a lot of things here, especially when it comes to sinking normal ships reliably on every broadside, when it comes to ships that will take more broadsides (ie hunters, warships, and SvS) copperhead will, statistically speaking, come out on top in terms of overall damage dealt. Although Storm Chaser isn't far behind, and both of these hulls are significantly ahead of all the others.
Next time I play and get the numbers for a max specced round shot, thunderbolt, and explosive, I can come back with the math. I've done it before, but I've forgotten the exact numbers lol
TheramoreIsTheBomb
Honorable Pirate
I'll probably War-Brig Stormchaser and War Frigate Copperhead
C
Crashalot
I think damage points per shot depend on how skill points are used, of course. That being said, I have maxed thunderbolts and explosives as well as all other relevant skill points maxed to max overall cannon shot damage.
My calculations have shown that a single thunderbolt is equal to 3 round shots, and 3 thunderbolts is equal to one explosive round, making an explosive round equal to 9 round shots.
So in my case, the 45% thunderbolts is equivalent to the 15% explosive shots, based on the math ratio above.
Of course, other pirates' mileage may vary, due to several factors.
So in my case, the 2 ship customizations are equal, based on a 100 shot comparison, meaning that the total damage value of 100 shots, be they thunderbolts or explosives, the damage is equal over every 100 shots fired.
As such, seeing as I don't use a 100 shots fired for any given ship, the 45% of thunderbolts shot for every 100 rounds fired makes the most sense instead of waiting for those fewer, more powerful explosives rounds to load.
And since cargo is not really an issue once you've maxed ship upgrades, the storm chaser fits a fair amount of cargo, and is only limited to the number of ship mats and skull chests per run, where regular loot and gold keep stacking in cargo, regardless of the ship capacity.
And then there's those 14 knots of speed the storm chaser commands...
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
There's a formula for this. Take the damage dealt from each shot (note: make sure you use them in the same scenario. I tested each shot against the hunter "Vengeance" when it had full armour hitting the side of it, for example). With 5 skill points into each Round Shot, Thunderbolt, Explosive, and Barrage gave me these values:
- Round Shot: 343
- Thunderbolt: 982
- Explosive: 3931
(Special Cannon Damage * Special Cannon Chance) + (Round Shot Damage * Round Shot Chance)
With the above I received these numbers:
- Storm Chaser: (982 * 0.45) + (343 * 0.55) = 630.55
- Copperhead: (3931 * 0.15) + (343 * 0.85) = 881.2
To calculate the full damage you simply multiply the number from above by the number of broadside cannons on one side. A War Sloop has 7, so you get:
- Storm Chaser: 630.55 * 7 = 4413.85
- Copperhead: 881.2 * 7 = 6168.4
You are right in that Copperhead will have much more damage variation per shot, ranging from all round shot to easily over double (or even triple) the damage of an average Storm Chaser shot. But when talking numbers, Copperhead has a higher average damage per broadside. This applies best to higher health ships (hunters, warships, and SvS) for obvious reasons as a result. Against regular ships, Storm Chaser will indeed be much more reliable.
C
Crashalot
Unfortunately, that formula only works for your pirate.
Each of my shots delivers more damage than yours apparently, excepting explosives.
My round shot on a hunter in general is 430, thunderbolt at 1260, explosives at 3860, so I calculate based on my estimates. Note, the approximate 3 to 1 ratio as one progresses in ammo type.
If you're maxed on all possible cannon damage skills, you can't get away from the math, an approximate 3 to 1 ratio.
And as the full upgrades are also in a 3 to 1 ratio, where 45% thunderbolts is compared to 15% explosives, we have the same average ratio.
But like I said above, your mileage may vary.
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
The formula is universal. The numbers used in the formula can be different, like mine were all low (for all ammo types). The reason those values were so low is because they were all done against a War Frigate hunter's side while it still had armour. It's important that you hit the same type of ship under the same conditions to get accurate values. I tried to stress that. If you hit an unarmoured War Galleon front with round shot, you need to hit unarmoured War Galleon front with the other two ammo types, otherwise it's going to be inaccurate.
My round shots typically hit in the 400's too, but the condition I was using the enemy was still armoured with the hunter damage reduction on top. Against an unarmoured hunter targets my explosives usually hit in the 8,000's, or almost 13,000 with Open Fire (which I only mention because it's one of the numbers I remember so well)
Also for your 3:1 ratio, yes Thunderbolt does about 3x the damage of round shot. The reason for that is you only have one shot instead of three. They actually do almost the same amount of damage per volley, making thunderbolt better because it's high range and easy to aim. Why would explosive only do three times the damage of thunderbolt, when it takes three times longer to reload, has lower range, and 1/10th the ammo? Explosive definitely does more than 3x the damage of thunderbolt.
Last edited:
C
Crashalot
No, the numbers are not universal, as skill points will make the damage more or less, depending.
And my cannon damage is the same, regardless of which hunter is being hit while in full armor. As damage progresses on the enemy hull, my damage points to it increase accordingly, regardless if it is a Flying Storm, a Scorned Siren or a Red Dervish, etc. For my pirate, all Hunters are dealt the same damage points, regardless.
I'm sure this is the same for all pirates playing, whatever that damage amount is that their shots deliver.
Now, some hunters require more shots to sink than others, but the damage per shot to a full armor hull is universal, based on each pirate's skill points.
The same applies to regular enemy ships, albeit more damage per shot fired. My cannon shot deals the same damage to any ship in the regular line up, when armor is full, etc.
On open fire, the damage increases 50%, according to the description for that skill set.
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
I just said the formula is universal and that the numbers are not. The formula is (Sp. Cannon Dmg * Sp. Cannon Chance) + (Rnd Dmg * Rnd Chance). The numbers are inserted into it. I was pointing out that you saying "the formula works only for your pirate" isn't true.
The reason for making it the same ship in the same conditions each time is for the sake of empirical evidence. The kind of evidence science uses. Repeat tests need to be tested in the same way, or they're not really valid, scientifically speaking. You don't test Drug A on middle age women and then Drug B on elderly men and then compare data. The most important part, really, is that the same kind of enemy (normal vs hunter vs warship) needs to be hit in the same location (weakspot or not?) with the same armour flag (Does it have armour or not?).
The easiest way to do this is to use all three ammo types on the side of a single Ship Of The Line after the armour on that side has been destroyed. I didn't use SOTL numbers because I don't have those saved anymore.
Also it's pretty much assumed you're talking about maxing the skill points for each cannon type when comparing hull broadsides.
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
I literally just grabbed new numbers for you.
I found a Century Hawk sitting by Tortuga. I tested all three cannon types with the enemy still armoured and after removing all the armour. I included screenshot evidence of each ammo type, and my skill points.
My damage values:
Using the minimum values, the average damage per cannon comes out to:
For a Storm Chaser, that would be on average 45 thunderbolts and 55 round shots.
(45 * 1006) + (55 * 335) = 45,270 + 18425 = 63695
For a Copperhead that would be on average 15 explosive and 85 round shots.
(15 * 4024) + (85 * 335) = 60360 + 28475 = 88835
I found a Century Hawk sitting by Tortuga. I tested all three cannon types with the enemy still armoured and after removing all the armour. I included screenshot evidence of each ammo type, and my skill points.
My damage values:
Using the minimum values, the average damage per cannon comes out to:
- Storm Chaser: (335 * 0.55) + (1006 * 0.45) = 636.95
- Copperhead: (335 * 0.85) + (4024 * 0.15) = 888.35
- Storm Chaser: (670 * 0.55) + (2012 * 0.45) = 1273.9
- Copperhead: (670 * 0.85) + (8049 * 0.15) = 1776.85
For a Storm Chaser, that would be on average 45 thunderbolts and 55 round shots.
(45 * 1006) + (55 * 335) = 45,270 + 18425 = 63695
For a Copperhead that would be on average 15 explosive and 85 round shots.
(15 * 4024) + (85 * 335) = 60360 + 28475 = 88835
TESTREPOTER
Buccaneer
from what i seen copperhead is the way
C
Crashalot
Yes, lol, empirical data...
Such is not requisite here, as all Hunters take the same damage a pirate's round shot, thunderbolt, etc will deal the enemy.
As for testing each round shot, that's pretty basic stuff and need not be elaborated upon.
As such, as your formula applies to my skill sets, the shots are merely multiples of 3 of each other, from round shot to explosives.
That your round shots and thunderbolts deliver substantially lower damage than mine is what we're really talking about here.
And I would like to correct my figure for explosives, as that damage is a bit higher and I mis read it earlier, for a damage amount of 3960, not 3860 as previously posted.
So, for me, and any pirate who has the same cannon damage skill points, there is a basic average 3 to 1 ratio for the round shot to thunderbolt to explosives rounds, and as such, relative in making a level 6 copper head equal in power and damage to a level 6 storm chaser, except of course that the storm chaser delivers more devastating firepower on any given broadside than a copperhead does.
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
If you want higher average damage. Remember @Crashalot 's point about normal ships is still valid. Copperhead sometimes doesn't shoot explosives at all, meaning there are a good number of times you won't insta-sink anything that a Storm Chaser could do so reliably.
Against warships especially, but also hunters and SvS, copperhead is going to generally put out more damage. Don't forget about overkill though! (sounds cool but it's a bad thing, means a lot of that extra damage will be wasted, but Storm Chaser has plenty of overkill too)
C
Crashalot
LOL, those numbers only apply to you my friend.
We're not discussing, well you are, the damage done to a ship at any given stage.
My damage is different, and owning a level 6 copperhead and a level 6 storm chaser, I can safely assert that the copperhead and storm chaser are near equals, with the advantages to the storm chaser putting it over the top in overall performance.
It would seem your shots are under powered for the round shot and thunderbolts, as you posted previously. This may explain the disparity in the damage your shots do when compared to mine.
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
for what reason would your thunderbolts do more damage though? If that's the case, then yes it throws all my numbers off. Or yours. But I don't believe it is. My thunderbolts do varying damage depending on what ship I hit and where I hit them.
Also the damage varies based on the enemy stage for everyone! That's an integral part of the data! You can't compare unarmoured thunderbolt damage against armoured explosive damage!
C
Crashalot
The only differences are if the ship is a regular enemy, a hunter or a warship, as each shot delivers less damage as the ship power increases.
Sky Kiwi
Pirate Master
Yes but that damage reduction applies to all kinds of ammo. That's why you need to use all three ammo types on the same type of enemy ship.
Also, I edited my post. I usually do that within a minute of posting, lol
Edit: Also I'd really like a third party to chime in here, we seem to be at a pretty big impasse lol