Request Spawn Bubbles

Beggar

Beggar

Pirate Master
I don't know the technical details of how any of this works, so bear with me as I try to explain the problem.

A little less than a year ago (I think), a TLOPO update changed the mechanics of enemy spawn bubbles so that the enemies inside could not be tagged for loot and reputation by broadsword swings.

I suggest reverting this mechanic back to how it initially was. Group-looting at Cicatriz or Tormenta's Gold Room has become an incredibly frustrating experience because of how frequently crew members miss skull chests. The spawn bubbles' invincibility effect on enemies granted a sort of grace period where the entire crew could run in and tag enemies for loot without worrying about 'stealing' a skull chest. With the system as it is now, I feel much less encouraged to loot in groups because of how difficult it is to ensure everybody receives loot containers once they drop.

Making enemies both invincible and 'taggable' while spawning would do a great deal to remedy this problem and revitalize looting spots where both bosses and regular enemies are present.
 
You beat me to it! I was going to post about this myself.

Disclaimer: Possible technical obstacles aside, I'm posting from the perspective of the possibility of implementation. I thoroughly understand that this issue may currently be technically impossible to remedy in the game's current state. POTCO had it right - so there may be hope!

I'd like to reiterate and agree with everything said in this post - the change to spawn bubbles (granted, for a fix within PvP) created issues with team looting. He's correct to point out that some AOE weapons do not any longer do damage while the spawn bubble is up. Grenades still work, allowing for a soloing of gold room or the veterans at Kingshead, but broadswords (and maybe more importantly, dagger Whirlwind!) do not work during the spawn bubble duration. This reality does indeed retract from team looting, and is arguably maybe even more of an issue when group looting at lower level groups such as the aforementioned Kingshead group. Lower levels here, leveling sword with a broadsword, are sometimes prohibited enough hits to count for rep/loot when playing with higher level players. Also, with the draw bosses created towards group looting (and unbalance of loot quality), this currently flawed mechanic does not encourage looting elsewhere, further adding to overpopulation problems at bosses. I think this mechanic may be the first step in revitalizing non-boss leveling and non-boss team looting alike. I do not think that this change is "only for the looters" or benefits only looters. This mechanic has a lot of bearing on leveling success with groups of enemies for lower level pirates.

Assuming this mechanic could be reverted, I agree with Beggar - and more specifically Bort - that this problem should be prioritized more. I hope this post brings to light the nuances behind why the players would like it back and that it is not a non-issue.
 
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Don't think tagging can be done in a discriminate way. When tagged there's damage. It would seem an impossibility for the game to sort tagging without damage. The bubble's job was spawn protection of enemy so people don't spawn camp most likely and could be a throw back from pvp as well. I don't see the reason to make looting yet again even more easy than it already is.
Let's just have a pop up where we can choose the loot and whether we want to bother fighting the enemy or not. That way people can do what they please.
As a beta the developers energies could be better spent getting the game to work proper, not wasting time dealing with peoples annoyances when they game.
 
What exactly is the proper way for bubbles to work? Is there a standard set for pve or pvp bubbles? Spawn protection seems to only be needed in pvp. I don't know why it's actually in pve at all.
If a bubbles going to be there, then nothing should effect the entity re-spawning. Being able to tag with the invincibility in progress is a glitch in itself and now people want that option? Maybe just get rid of it altogether in pve and just have the target pop in.

Already playing out of the norm by having 25 people standing around an enemy creates all sorts of problems on it's own. Lag, loot loss, containers hanging around for hours, etc etc. It's not enough that the group can take down a boss in 9 seconds. Maybe that's the problem and not bubbles. I miss containers all the time from large group lag. The boss is already down before my first sweep. That's not a game problem to me, that's a group problem. Allowing tagging of an enemy purposely while invincibility is in progress is a ludicrous idea. PVE or PVP.
Sorry.
 
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squintz said:
What exactly is the proper way for bubbles to work? Is there a standard set for pve or pvp bubbles? Spawn protection seems to only be needed in pvp. I don't know why it's actually in pve at all.
If a bubbles going to be there, then nothing should effect the entity re-spawning. Being able to tag with the invincibility in progress is a glitch in itself and now people want that option? Maybe just get rid of it altogether in pve and just have the target pop in.

Already playing out of the norm by having 25 people standing around an enemy creates all sorts of problems on it's own. Lag, loot loss, containers hanging around for hours, etc etc. It's not enough that the group can take down a boss in 9 seconds. Maybe that's the problem and not bubbles. I miss containers all the time from large group lag. The boss is already down before my first sweep. That's not a game problem to me, that's a group problem. Allowing tagging of an enemy purposely while invincibility is in progress is a ludicrous idea. PVE or PVP.
Sorry.
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From my understanding of this thread, the goal here isn't to fix a bug with spawn bubbles, it's just a harmless quality-of-life change. You mentioned "loot loss" as an issue with large groups at a boss. By making enemies tag-able while they're in their spawn bubbles, players have more time to tag them and are less likely to miss loot. With that said, you appear to contradict yourself when you say, "I miss containers all the time from large group lag. The boss is already down before my first sweep," but then follow up with, "Allowing tagging of an enemy purposely while invincibility is in progress is a ludicrous idea." Why is it a ludicrous idea when it aims to solve the problem you just complained about?
 
Fortune Burnrose said:
From my understanding of this thread, the goal here isn't to fix a bug with spawn bubbles, it's just a harmless quality-of-life change. You mentioned "loot loss" as an issue with large groups at a boss. By making enemies tag-able while they're in their spawn bubbles, players have more time to tag them and are less likely to miss loot. With that said, you appear to contradict yourself when you say, "I miss containers all the time from large group lag. The boss is already down before my first sweep," but then follow up with, "Allowing tagging of an enemy purposely while invincibility is in progress is a ludicrous idea." Why is it a ludicrous idea when it aims to solve the problem you just complained about?
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Because there isn't a problem when it's expected that lag and massive camping will result in game extremes of function.
I don't see the contradiction that you're trying to create.
I was quite clear in my post.
 
squintz said:
Because there isn't a problem when it's expected that lag and massive camping will result in game extremes of function.
I don't see the contradiction that you're trying to create.
I was quite clear in my post.
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The contradiction that you made was that you complained about missing loot at a boss, implying that it can be difficult to attack an enemy in time before everyone kills it. But when presented with a decent solution to this issue, you called it "ludicrous". I just want to know why you were opposed to this seemingly harmless suggestion.
 
Some commenters have made an excellent point that the spawn bubbles worked perfectly both in PVP and PVE in POTCO. Like with everything else in TLOPO, the way Disney had it should serve as the standard for the mechanic functioning properly.
 
Fortune Burnrose said:
The contradiction that you made was that you complained about missing loot at a boss, implying that it can be difficult to attack an enemy in time before everyone kills it. But when presented with a decent solution to this issue, you called it "ludicrous". I just want to know why you were opposed to this seemingly harmless suggestion.
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Nope, not at all what I was implying, that's what you're implying and you're very incorrect. Spawn invincibility has always been used in pvp, not for the enemy npc, but mostly for a player so he/she does not get spawn camped and killed. With every other mmo on the planet, bubbles aren't used in PVE, you just respawn fully depending how the game decides your situation. Spawn point camping is a problem with multiplayer only, that I know of.
You missed my point that it's the group taking away your chances of hitting and not the game or the bubble preventing you.
What's really happening in my opinion is 25 people are so tightly surrounding a npc that each other swords touch and if one tries to be considerate and not stick their body in your face there's only so much room around a boss or enemy without impinging on another space.

Not that that stops hard core players or whatever. People step in at will. It's the nature of the game mentality. Also, people seem to get bored and drag other non boss npc into the group, and these npc will move you out of the way. So, there's that too.

I believe this thread was started about PVE group looting, my suggestion is to take away spawn bubbles entirely in the PVE mode. The boss just reappears, boom. Solution.

Then it's unnecessary to ask developers to short circuit or neuter a spawn bubble for a pve boss. Some peoples solutions are like legal loopholes or asking dev's to make a exploit legal and okay to do. I respectively disagree with the suggested 'solution'.

Perhaps we should have the dev's put in a safe hit code on enemies where the npc waits until it senses different multiple hits, waits some more then starts its aggression mode. Like a code that how many different people are in the group and when the number is over 5, it automatically delays aggression mode until all different hits are registered. The game already knows how many are fighting instantly, and since the boss will turn at people all the time for whatever reason, it could keep track. Or, maybe a crew leader can have a toggle setting where he/she can turn off all damage from the enemy for a given time. I don't think many would complain about that. Or maybe even, like you have the normal 15 to 20 at a boss and the boss will not move until each players first tag will freeze the player and every other player until every player has made a tag then all turn on. Thus guaranteeing everyone has a drop every time.

And if bubbles worked like that in disney, they were broken IMO and people didn't want that fixed.
Why does everyone want things so easy when we're supposed to be beta testing? Things are pretty easy already. The devs gave us a gift with the potion 'mistake'. I think they got sick of all the negative potion talk including mine and gave people a chance to fix it themselves and shut up. Made me happy.
 
squintz said:
Nope, not at all what I was implying, that's what you're implying and you're very incorrect. Spawn invincibility has always been used in pvp, not for the enemy npc, but mostly for a player so he/she does not get spawn camped and killed. With every other mmo on the planet, bubbles aren't used in PVE, you just respawn fully depending how the game decides your situation. Spawn point camping is a problem with multiplayer only, that I know of.
You missed my point that it's the group taking away your chances of hitting and not the game or the bubble preventing you.
What's really happening in my opinion is 25 people are so tightly surrounding a npc that each other swords touch and if one tries to be considerate and not stick their body in your face there's only so much room around a boss or enemy without impinging on another space.

Not that that stops hard core players or whatever. People step in at will. It's the nature of the game mentality. Also, people seem to get bored and drag other non boss npc into the group, and these npc will move you out of the way. So, there's that too.

I believe this thread was started about PVE group looting, my suggestion is to take away spawn bubbles entirely in the PVE mode. The boss just reappears, boom. Solution.

Then it's unnecessary to ask developers to short circuit or neuter a spawn bubble for a pve boss. Some peoples solutions are like legal loopholes or asking dev's to make a exploit legal and okay to do. I respectively disagree with the suggested 'solution'.

Perhaps we should have the dev's put in a safe hit code on enemies where the npc waits until it senses different multiple hits, waits some more then starts its aggression mode. Like a code that how many different people are in the group and when the number is over 5, it automatically delays aggression mode until all different hits are registered. The game already knows how many are fighting instantly, and since the boss will turn at people all the time for whatever reason, it could keep track. Or, maybe a crew leader can have a toggle setting where he/she can turn off all damage from the enemy for a given time. I don't think many would complain about that. Or maybe even, like you have the normal 15 to 20 at a boss and the boss will not move until each players first tag will freeze the player and every other player until every player has made a tag then all turn on. Thus guaranteeing everyone has a drop every time.

And if bubbles worked like that in disney, they were broken IMO and people didn't want that fixed.
Why does everyone want things so easy when we're supposed to be beta testing? Things are pretty easy already. The devs gave us a gift with the potion 'mistake'. I think they got sick of all the negative potion talk including mine and gave people a chance to fix it themselves and shut up. Made me happy.
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Fortune Burnrose said:
I just want to know why you were opposed to this seemingly harmless suggestion.
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squintz said:
You missed my point that it's the group taking away your chances of hitting and not the game or the bubble preventing you.
What's really happening in my opinion is 25 people are so tightly surrounding a npc that each other swords touch and if one tries to be considerate and not stick their body in your face there's only so much room around a boss or enemy without impinging on another space.
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Response to bold:
Thats what this thread is aiming to solve. By allowing a boss to be aggro'd but not take damage would allow all of those people to get the loot without accidentally killing him too fast and causing people to miss loot.
I don't think it's that complicated.
 
Fortune Burnrose said:
Response to bold:
Thats what this thread is aiming to solve. By allowing a boss to be aggro'd but not take damage would allow all of those people to get the loot without accidentally killing him too fast and causing people to miss loot.
I don't think it's that complicated.
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No, the concept is not complicated. To change or nerf a game parameter because a group of players play outside a games normal scenarios and force hardships on other players and then want the dev's to change something so they can go on doing what they do is what I object to. Am I going to tell a city to put a straight road through a roundabout because it makes it too difficult for me and other inconvenienced people to go around? No. I am not. I go into a mob group now and know stuff will happen. I expect to lose stuff. I'm not surprised or disappointed or even bothered by it any more like the first month I was here. I even realized I was the one to lose a legendary from my own actions.

And by the way, it's no accident that 15 people kill a boss too fast. Now there is ludicrous.
There's no other clearer way for me to explain this, so there's no reason to keep trying to twist what I say into something else. And you all can put whatever little faces you want on my posts.
 
squintz said:
No, the concept is not complicated. To change or nerf a game parameter because a group of players play outside a games normal scenarios and force hardships on other players and then want the dev's to change something so they can go on doing what they do is what I object to. Am I going to tell a city to put a straight road through a roundabout because it makes it too difficult for me and other inconvenienced people to go around? No. I am not. I go into a mob group now and know stuff will happen. I expect to lose stuff. I'm not surprised or disappointed or even bothered by it any more like the first month I was here. I even realized I was the one to lose a legendary from my own actions.

And by the way, it's no accident that 15 people kill a boss too fast. Now there is ludicrous.
There's no other clearer way for me to explain this, so there's no reason to keep trying to twist what I say into something else. And you all can put whatever little faces you want on my posts.
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Okay i'm going to assume you have no idea what we're talking about since you never played POTCO.

The suggestion was about reverting spawn bubbles back to how they previously were like in the original game. This made it so players can attack an enemy's spawn bubble (dealing no damage to the enemy itself) and still get loot afterwards.

This allowed more players to attack a single enemy without it dying, allowing everyone to get the loot it drops. There is no disadvantage or downside to this addition to the game. It will simply make looting in groups easier and better for the entire community, especially for lower leveled players. It's a harmless addition to the game that will make TLOPO more like POTCO, the game that the dev's originally set out to recreate.
squintz said:
And you all can put whatever little faces you want on my posts.
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And hey, you're the one who asked for them to be added
114656


If you could actually express why you think this is a bad idea rather than just calling it "ludicrous" it'd make it a lot easier to further this thread and give everyone an idea of what you're actually talking about
 
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"If you could actually express why you think this is a bad idea rather than just calling it "ludicrous" it'd make it a lot easier to further this thread and give everyone an idea of what you're actually talking about"

With my explanations at:
Characters(without blanks):5,723
Words: 1,111
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... I'm not the one having a problem expressing or grasping ideas. The little faces have always been here.
I have no reason to further this thread as I've clearly defined my reasons nerfing invincibility bubbles we don't even need in PVE is a ludicrous idea.
Thanks and happy looting.
 
squintz said:
No, the concept is not complicated. To change or nerf a game parameter because a group of players play outside a games normal scenarios and force hardships on other players and then want the dev's to change something so they can go on doing what they do is what I object to. Am I going to tell a city to put a straight road through a roundabout because it makes it too difficult for me and other inconvenienced people to go around? No. I am not. I go into a mob group now and know stuff will happen. I expect to lose stuff. I'm not surprised or disappointed or even bothered by it any more like the first month I was here. I even realized I was the one to lose a legendary from my own actions.
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I don't understand how it forces hardships on other players. I seriously see no drawbacks to this suggestion and you haven't given me a single example of how it does... :sad1:
 
I think, for perspective, we shouldn't necessarily look from the point of view of looting a stronger boss, like Palifico.

Take Darkhart, for example. Three people can dominate an entire looting session with a blunderbuss. Ignoring the fact that it's just rude, and tactless, let's take a look at this.

3 people with a decent blunderbuss can instant kill Darkhart. Which means everyone who didn't get to attack, misses out on loot. Like Daniel said, in POTCO, you could attack "through" spawn bubbles. Damage wouldn't register, but it would still count as a hit, giving you loot.

Now I know the Darkhart example is a terrible example, but it can honestly happen anywhere with enough people. I've seen it happen at Crash and Jimmy. People miss out since they don't have time to land a hit due to how quickly the boss goes down. This has nothing to do with lag, considering Crash and Jimmy really don't need large groups for quick kills. There is little to no lag at these looting sessions.

So there are two ways we can go about helping this issue. We can enforce a rule asking members to not use certain "fast kill" mechanics, or we can revert to how spawn bubbles operated in POTCO. I'll let you all decide which one you like, and which one you don't.


Full disclosure, I do not support instant killing of bosses like Darkhart in larger, public looting sessions. I just wanted to make an example. If you really want an easy Darkhart kill, please do it on a quieter server without other public looters. It is quite disruptive. Set up a private looting session.
 
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