Discussion The Immense Frustration of Hollowed Woods 2018

[Beggar]

1) The dev's doubling the time The Hollowed Woods are open (again this year) has put a bit of a dent in that point.

The four new legendary weapons haven’t been available until a couple days ago, so no.

2) Other games offer specific items or reward s ONLY available during special events. So this is nothing new nor limited to POTCO.

Event-exclusive items in games like Team Fortress 2 or Overwatch are more akin to peddler outfits or Hollowed Woods clothes. I.e., they’re purely cosmetic, can be acquired without a tremendous amount of effort, and don’t impact the core mechanics of the game. The Hollowed Woods legendary weapons are among the most powerful items in the game, and could potentially require an average of over one hundred hours of looting to find one.

I’ve never seen any other game incorporate a system like this, and if one has, it was a mistake there too.

 

[Kevin0605]

I'm generally not one to state my opinion, but this in my eyes isn't right.

First off, I feel like this was poorly timed. A LARGE portion of the players on this game are in college. And for us who are, we know how busy this time of year is. We have final after final, constant projects and presentations, and time is a valuable thing. Therefore, why give the players only the busiest month of the year to loot these new 4 legendary? It does not make sense to me. As somebody who was once tied with the most legendary, I know, along with a large percentage of the community, that legendary weapons potentially mark completion, as getting to level 50 only takes a mere week or two. And so now with this being the 3rd expansion of new legendaries within under a year (another controversial topic), nobody is even close to the completion mark, but at least the others were possible to get the other 11 months out of the year. This brings me back to what I said in the beginning, the busiest month of the year was picked for the players to spend hours behind a screen. This shouldn't be a "oops better luck next year" act.

As the Norrington's Spyglass was mentioned earlier, we ALL know how horrible that went. Only 50 people because of this event were capable of what many view reaching max completion, which to many means to obtaining all the legendary items within this game. Now we all know we want these items. There would lack in cause to play if we didn't. But if you were to take away that possibility every 11 months, many would lose the pure will to play, as reaching this completion just got a WHOLE lot more difficult.

Here are a few on my suggestions:

1. Eliminate Lost Sword and Silver Freeze out of the possible lootable legendary for at least watcher. This is a slap in the face to most.
2. Allow the newly added legendary to be obtainable in the shop in exchange for a large amount of Haunted Bones. Haunted bones are hard to come by, and listing a legendary 750, 800, or even 1000 Haunted Bones would be more acceptable. This way, you could at least save up bones over the years, knowing you'll eventually be given to chance to purchase them.
3. If the whole point of this update was to loot The Watcher or that pitiful Dry Rot, then create another type of bone that can only be obtainable from them. And then, same as stated above, be able to exchange large sums of these newly created bones in for one of the legendary.

I grew up playing this game with Disney, and I've been here for about a year now. The amount of nostalgia is INCREDIBLE thanks to the devs. However, I think this update may bring some long term problems. This game is already somewhat quiet, but I DON"T want to see it die.

Have a good day everybody!

 

[Beggar]

I'm generally not one to state my opinion, but this in my eyes isn't right.

First off, I feel like this was poorly timed. A LARGE portion of the players on this game are in college. And for us who are, we know how busy this time of year is. We have final after final, constant projects and presentations, and time is a valuable thing. Therefore, why give the players only the busiest month of the year to loot these new 4 legendary? It does not make sense to me. As somebody who was once tied with the most legendary, I know, along with a large percentage of the community, that legendary weapons potentially mark completion, as getting to level 50 only takes a mere week or two. And so now with this being the 3rd expansion of new legendaries within under a year (another controversial topic), nobody is even close to the completion mark, but at least the others were possible to get the other 11 months out of the year. This brings me back to what I said in the beginning, the busiest month of the year was picked for the players to spend hours behind a screen. This shouldn't be a "oops better luck next year" act.

As the Norrington's Spyglass was mentioned earlier, we ALL know how horrible that went. Only 50 people because of this event were capable of what many view reaching max completion, which to many means to obtaining all the legendary items within this game. Now we all know we want these items. There would lack in cause to play if we didn't. But if you were to take away that possibility every 11 months, many would lose the pure will to play, as reaching this completion just got a WHOLE lot more difficult.

Here are a few on my suggestions:

1. Eliminate Lost Sword and Silver Freeze out of the possible lootable legendary for at least watcher. This is a slap in the face to most.
2. Allow the newly added legendary to be obtainable in the shop in exchange for a large amount of Haunted Bones. Haunted bones are hard to come by, and listing a legendary 750, 800, or even 1000 Haunted Bones would be more acceptable. This way, you could at least save up bones over the years, knowing you'll eventually be given to chance to purchase them.
3. If the whole point of this update was to loot The Watcher or that pitiful Dry Rot, then create another type of bone that can only be obtainable from them. And then, same as stated above, be able to exchange large sums of these newly created bones in for one of the legendary.

I grew up playing this game with Disney, and I've been here for about a year now. The amount of nostalgia is INCREDIBLE thanks to the devs. However, I think this update may bring some long term problems. This game is already somewhat quiet, but I DON"T want to see it die.

Have a good day everybody!

That third suggestion is a great idea - I never thought of it.

 

[JacquesDessalines]

I like option two if the price is high enough (Maybe 10x the famed prices? The Famed are 30-45 haunted, so 300-450?). The downside would be you could loot Tormenta or skeletons like Darkheart and get the Watcher's items. At the right price though, the items would be obtainable but also require a lot of looting. Perhaps because Tormenta and Darkhart the prices could be inflated to maybe 500-750, or 20x to 600-900 That's a lot though, especially if someone has not saved up from the last year.

I also like putting Devil's Claw at Devil Root and the Watcher's three at Foulberto (all ghost themed) after the event. Obviously Foulberto would need to be changed to be able to drop them as they aren't throwing knives, but throwing knives plus these legends wouldn't be the end of the world, also doing that would eliminate Lost Sword of El Patron from the equation.

Either of those works. Keeping it very rare and time sensitive also works, but I don't think it's ideal. Maybe it would make more sense to be time sensitive if they were holiday themed (ie Corpse Staff and Halloween, Pumpkin Grenade/Snowball Grenade) and not among the best in the game (ie. Dark Whisper).

 

[Beggar]

Maybe it would make more sense to be time sensitive if they were holiday themed (ie Corpse Staff and Halloween, Pumpkin Grenade/Snowball Grenade) and not among the best in the game (ie. Dark Whisper).

This is an excellent point. Seasonal items like peddler outfits and grenade reskins are fun, but nobody is upset if they miss out on them since they aren't difficult to get, and they don't rank among the most powerful items in the game.

Dark Whisper's power puts it comfortably in the same tier as World Eater Blade / Thunderspine / Mercer's Pistol. You can charge Dark Curse in two dagger combos. A weapon like that qualifies as an endgame reward and shouldn't be event exclusive.

 

[Eric Sailcutter]

I think the Hollowed Woods situation is fine, it puts pressure on the game and tests the stability with dozens of players looting in close proximity. I agree with the beginning of your post but fail to see how Hollowed Woods is any different. It's true that when it closes your window of opportunity also closes but it's cyclical and will open again next year, why would that stress anyone? I will loot The Watcher quite a bit, some chance is better than none, but I have no expectation of actually getting any of the new legendarys.

 

[Beggar]

I think the Hollowed Woods situation is fine, it puts pressure on the game and tests the stability with dozens of players looting in close proximity. I agree with the beginning of your post but fail to see how Hollowed Woods is any different. It's true that when it closes your window of opportunity also closes but it's cyclical and will open again next year, why would that stress anyone? I will loot The Watcher quite a bit, some chance is better than none, but I have no expectation of actually getting any of the new legendarys.

It's different this time because players are denied an ample opportunity to get the weapon they want. Normally, your only constraint is how long you're willing to loot. This time, you will be stopped from looting whether you'd like to or not.

 

[Eric Sailcutter]

This is an excellent point. Seasonal items like peddler outfits and grenade reskins are fun, but nobody is upset if they miss out on them since they aren't difficult to get, and they don't rank among the most powerful items in the game.

Dark Whisper's power puts it comfortably in the same tier as World Eater Blade / Thunderspine / Mercer's Pistol. You can charge Dark Curse in two dagger combos. A weapon like that qualifies as an endgame reward and shouldn't be event exclusive.

Why shouldn't these weapons be event exclusive? The event is recurring. All it means is that you will have one or two less places to loot and 4 less items that may be obtained while Hollowed Woods is closed, no big deal, there's plenty of other things to do in the game while you are waiting for it to reopen.

 

[Eric Sailcutter]

It's different this time because players are denied an ample opportunity to get the weapon they want. Normally, your only constraint is how long you're willing to loot. This time, you will be stopped from looting whether you'd like to or not.

I like that concept. It will provide incentive for players to do different things.

 

[Fortune Burnrose]

Why shouldn't these weapons be event exclusive? The event is recurring. All it means is that you will have one or two less places to loot and 4 less items that may be obtained while Hollowed Woods is closed, no big deal, there's plenty of other things to do in the game while you are waiting for it to reopen.

I think I side with Eric here. It not being available all year long isn't going to hurt the game because there's always going to be other legendaries to look for. In addition, finding at least one of these legendaries in a month isn't terribly unlikely. Like I said in my last post, just look how many have been found already.

 

[Beggar]

Why shouldn't these weapons be event exclusive? The event is recurring. All it means is that you will have one or two less places to loot and 4 less items that may be obtained while Hollowed Woods is closed, no big deal, there's plenty of other things to do in the game while you are waiting for it to reopen.

Two of the four weapons are the only known legendaries of their class. There's no substitute for them that can be acquired anywhere else in the game. No one was upset about season-exclusive grenade reskins or outfits because those items don't radically change the dynamics of looting. The presence of a legendary voodoo doll and dagger does.

For an incredibly large portion of this game's players, weapon collection is the game. Adding four weapons that can only be acquired within a bitingly thin time constraint is effectively a slap in the face to how they play the game. Like I said, if you get an El Patron at Jimmy Legs, it's no big deal. You can keep fighting him until you get what you're really after. If you get an El Patron at The Watcher, that could be it. You'll have to wait an entire year to get another chance. So here's the question - for whom does that dynamic make the game more fun?

 

[David Ironeagle]

Just gonna jump in with my own takes on the whole thing.

Sure we've got a month for this current go-round of HW. But it starts again in October, meaning a 9 month wait for another 3 months of grinding for the legends.

The new Hollowed Woods legends do not compare to the Norrington's Spyglass contest. That is an exaggeration that there are no grounds to make. That was a one time event where the reward was only granted to a top 50. HW is recurring and the legends can be found by literally anyone. The possibility here does not get taken away every 11 months, it's taken away for 9.

I know for a fact that nobody has every other legend and that upon the release of the HW ones, everybody and their mother dropped everything to zerg Watcher to both find and get them because of the time constraint. Why not spend the other 9 months of the year looting for the original 7, or the 6 from Forsaken Shallows, or the 3 known Notorious Individuals legends, or heck, try to find The Fourth. There is a significant amount to keep yourself busy when HW isn't up, and even if you treat looting as the end-all, there's plenty to loot without bringing HW into the mix.
Judging from my (incredibly) limited perceptions, prior to this update there was absolutely zero incentive to ever set foot in HW unless you wanted to redeem some bones or you needed a quick x2 exp boost. Looks like the devs got a way to quickly and immediately incentivize it.

My initial takeaway from posts like this is usually "The Devs Will NEVER Make Everyone Happy."

Prior to this update, the only things I'd see being said about the Watcher were complaints over how there was no point to looting her, that she didn't even drop anything. Now that she actually drops something, the complaints are that she shouldn't because it's a seasonal boss/location?

 

[Eric Sailcutter]

Two of the four weapons are the only known legendaries of their class. There's no substitute for them that can be acquired anywhere else in the game. No one was upset about season-exclusive grenade reskins or outfits because those items don't radically change the dynamics of looting. The presence of a legendary voodoo doll and dagger does.

For an incredibly large portion of this game's players, weapon collection is the game. Adding four weapons that can only be acquired within a bitingly thin time constraint is effectively a slap in the face to how they play the game. Like I said, if you get an El Patron at Jimmy Legs, it's no big deal. You can keep fighting him until you get what you're really after. If you get an El Patron at The Watcher, that could be it. You'll have to wait an entire year to get another chance.

In my opinion more exclusive and difficult to get items is the way forward. Players, such as yourself, do not need to feel put upon because an item is introduced that is more challenging to get than the existing items currently are. The developers have not changed the prexisting game so you can, if you want, continue to play as you did before the update. I would say it is great that the developers have thrown a curve ball and it's up to us to adapt.

 

[Beggar]

Prior to this update, the only things I'd see being said about the Watcher were complaints over how there was no point to looting her, that she didn't even drop anything. Now that she actually drops something, the complaints are that she shouldn't because it's a seasonal boss/location?

An incentive to battle the Watcher is a good idea, but not this incentive. It doesn't take a wealth of imagination to think of a way to get people to spend time fighting her without angering this many people. Like O'Legend suggested, why not make the four new weapons purchasable for a currency that can only be acquired within Hallowed Woods?

Sure we've got a month for this current go-round of HW. But it starts again in October, meaning a 9 month wait for another 3 months of grinding for the legends.

The weapons were released on November 30th and Hallowed Woods closes on December 31st. That's not three months. The event has been extended beyond its scheduled closing in both years that it's been in the game.

I know for a fact that nobody has every other legend and that upon the release of the HW ones, everybody and their mother dropped everything to zerg Watcher to both find and get them because of the time constraint. Why not spend the other 9 months of the year looting for the original 7, or the 6 from Forsaken Shallows, or the 3 known Notorious Individuals legends, or heck, try to find The Fourth.

Where else do I go to get a legendary dagger?

 

[David Ironeagle]

An incentive to battle the Watcher is a good idea, but not this incentive. It doesn't take a wealth of imagination to think of a way to get people to spend time fighting her without angering this many people. Like O'Legend suggested, why not make the four new weapons purchasable for a currency that can only be acquired within Hallowed Woods?

What other incentive is there? The currency is a good solution, I agree. I like the idea somebody else had suggested, of giving a new type of bone/currency to just the Watcher/Dry Rot.

The weapons were released on November 30th and Hallowed Woods closes on December 31st. That's not three months.

I'm thinking with a longer view. You get a month this time, 9 months of waiting, then 3 months next year.

Where else do I go to get a legendary dagger?

The Fourth could be a legendary dagger, who knows? Incentive to find it

 

[Beggar]

The developers have not changed the prexisting game so you can, if you want, continue to play as you did before the update.

That isn't how people feel. You can't expect a weapon collector to just ignore the presence of three weapons that powerful.

 

[Fortune Burnrose]

I'm thinking with a longer view. You get a month this time, 9 months of waiting, then 3 months next year.

We don't know for certain whether hollowed woods will last for 3 month in 2019.

 

[Eric Sailcutter]

That isn't how people feel. You can't expect a weapon collector to just ignore the presence of three weapons that powerful.

I don't expect that they would ignore them, just that they won't loot them when they are unavailable. Frustration over them not being available is like being frustrated over HOP being unavailable, uncalled for imo.

 

[Beggar]

I don't expect that they would ignore them, just that they won't loot them when they are unavailable. Frustration over them not being available is like being frustrated over HOP being unavailable, uncalled for imo.

I'm not sure I follow this argument. I don't have to ignore HOP's presence because HOP isn't present. These four new weapons will be in the game year round, even if they aren't always lootable.

 

[Kevin0605]

I don't expect that they would ignore them, just that they won't loot them when they are unavailable. Frustration over them not being available is like being frustrated over HOP being unavailable, uncalled for imo.

HOP hasn't been released in TLOPO yet. You're comparing an item that hasn't been released in this game at all to 4 weapons that are apparently going to be seasonal. People have a reasonable cause to have frustration for only have such a slim time frame