Discussion The next step...

Shamus The Brute said:
So, you’re saying people shouldn’t make assumptions about knocking/diss’ng trading when you just admitted to making an assumption yourself, in support of it?

Also, how can both game mechanics and the “social aspect of playing” become segregated within a MMORPG game? Can ye have one without the other?
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I support trading period, there's no assumption there.
Most people aren't making assumptions about trading, they are either yes or no pretty cleanly with ideas how it would go. The assumptions I point out have to do with social and personal concepts and conditioning that my looting effects what you get in loot and me getting something easier than you ruins the game for you. Well, sorry to burst peoples ego bubbles, but what they think about their own personal achievements doesn't have a cats fur ball to do with my game.

And yes, I do feel social/community/guild is a separate part from the technical/mechanical aspects of tlopo. They both coexist as a whole of the game. But what one does socially, even in groups who are looting has zero impact on what I find and when. A persons 'feelings' does not change a loot drop. A person like Warmonk, who enjoys/used to enjoy looting, who also likes to work on the why something drops and makes guides to share because he wants to isn't trying order you to do his theories. He just likes putting that stuff out there.

A person telling people and me that trading will ruin it for them and other people is just nonsense to me and I can't take it intellectually serious.
People attack me because they can't separate the two. It's like you're building your map and you are just making sure waypoints work correctly and doors open the right way. You aren't thinking if you should make it a blue door because 3 people said that's what they want. That is the social parts that come later during beta testing. Whether I put flower pots by the door is not a pure technical issue, but an esthetic one. If someone later said they don't like the look of that flower pot even though its not in the way, that's personal not functional.

People commenting trading will ruin it for them is purely personal not game functional. I have not seen in any trade thread yet, a real technical, game function reason for not putting trade in the game. None that hold up for a few seconds to logic.

GL
 
squintz said:
I support trading period, there's no assumption there.
Most people aren't making assumptions about trading, they are either yes or no pretty cleanly with ideas how it would go....

A person telling people and me that trading will ruin it for them and other people is just nonsense to me and I can't take it intellectually serious...

People commenting trading will ruin it for them is purely personal not game functional. I have not seen in any trade thread yet, a real technical, game function reason for not putting trade in the game. None that hold up for a few seconds to logic.
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I cannot sleep right now @squintz so here I am, lol, back on this thread. :hypno:

In plain English sir, without a lot of metaphors, examples, or ramblings... can you please help me to understand your own opinion on the below points? Thank you.
  1. Trading has never been implemented into the POTCO and TLOPO model. *Can you agree that most EVERYONE (i.e., you, I, those for trading, those against trading, etc.) has made “at least one assumption already” about trading because nobody knows yet the implications (or lack there of) trading itself will have on this particular game/remake?
  2. Can you acknowledge too that it is not an assumption for people to express or show “concern” in what trading might bring? Let’s just call it what it is, OK? (Concern is different from an ‘assumption’ because an assumption implies it WILL HAPPEN. Some pirates here, including myself, believe sincerely that we don’t know what will happen despite the fact that some pirates have ‘assumed’ a position that they do).
  3. Can you share why you don’t foresee ANY implications happening at all to the game (on account of the implementation of trading) given that a few of us have already said we feel/suspect the odds of any implications would become greater after TLOPO implements trading? (What exactly makes you feel ‘super confident’ given trading has yet to be implemented for, really, ANY pirate of the Caribbean)?
  4. Game function or not, can you share your point-of-view of whether you feel pro-trading supporters have a decent understanding (and empathic grasp) of why a lot of pirates are hesitant to accept such an abrupt change to a game they have grown used to for NOW OVER 11+ years?
 
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Trading has never been implemented into the POTCO and TLOPO model. *Can you agree that most EVERYONE (i.e., you, I, those for trading, those against trading, etc.) has made “at least one assumption already” about trading because nobody knows yet the implications (or lack there of) trading itself will have on this particular game/remake?
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Most everyone who plays mmo's knows what trading is/does.
Since trading has never been in potco or tlopo, except for our other game experience, there is NO experience to know in potco or trading, thus EVERYTHING is a prediction, thus an assumption of the future. Actually, using the word assumption is technically wrong. We should be using the word prediction, or predicting what can take place. To assume is to believe something is taking place.

Can you acknowledge too that it is not an assumption for people to express or show “concern” in what trading might bring? Let’s just call it what it is, OK? (Concern is different from an ‘assumption’ because an assumption implies it WILL HAPPEN. Some pirates here, including myself, believe sincerely that we don’t know what will happen despite the fact that some pirates have ‘assumed’ a position that they do).
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Read my above answer.

Can you share why you don’t foresee ANY implications happening at all to the game (on account of the implementation of trading) given that a few of us have already said we feel/suspect the odds of any implications would become greater after TLOPO implements trading?
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I can't commit to anything like that considering there's no standards or definitions of what implications actually are. No one can decide on what an implication is and it's not up to me to define it for all.

(What exactly makes you feel ‘super confident’ given trading has yet to be implemented for, really, ANY pirate of the Caribbean)?Game function or not, can you share your point-of-view of whether you feel pro-trading supporters have a decent understanding (and empathic grasp) of why a lot of pirates are hesitant to accept such an abrupt change to a game they have grown used to for NOW OVER 11+ years?
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'Grown used to', is another way of illustrating my 'conditioned' point. I come to this game with no conditioning and only see it in a user viewpoint, not a emotional, conditioned 'grown used to' state.

Sorry, going to use a condition metaphor/analogy here. You have a dog for years and years and now it's suffering and ask me, your brother what to do. Without much emotional attachment, I quickly say it needs to go to the vet for the final goodbye. You can use your car, truck or anything else here for this analogy. You of course have a horrendous or serious decision to make. I see the dog as very sick, you may see the dog as, oh maybe it'll make it this time or get better. Your emotions are clouding whats best for the dog. Sad as it is.

Players conditioning is not letting people see game play itself. I don't have the conditioning but that doesn't mean I don't understand peoples conditioning. I just think that this conditioning, 'used to stuff' is important, but isn't the basis to stop a feature from being tried.

Now hopefully you'll un-focus from my personal views on subjects.
 
squintz said:
Just give it to you? Heck no Chaz. How about that copperhead ship ya got? Or 150K gold?
I'm not giving you anything free. You got to trade me for it.
And I think you need to make some personal sacrifices to find time to loot, I can't help you out there Charles.
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Oh Squintz, 150k gold can be had in 3 days of casual play doing nothing special to get gold, a copperhead in a few weeks starting from scratch which is none of us but the Leviathan not so much... If you want the Leviathan now you need to play on Abassa and organize looting parties and you will likely have to do that for 6 months unless you are lucky and get it today, lol. Will you trade 3 war class copperheads and 2 lower lvl cursed legendaries for it?
 
squintz said:
Good.
People should always have a little mystery about themselves.
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True. But this should not be so with a community-based issue such as trading (and whether or not it would benefit TLOPO). As such, I feel it wise if people would talk rather simply with no mystery and with no assumptions or predictions. ***Until that can be accomplished, there is NO basis which can overly convince me that your 50% success rate (in support of trading) overrules someone else's 50% success rate (opposed to trading). What needs to happen really for both sides is if TLOPO could make a public/official statement about the high interest and concern shown towards trading and whether it is feasible for TLOPO to test on neutral ground, as others have already suggested, like the QA server only for a period of time for the purpose of "gauging" how the game itself will react to trading.

Here's something else for you and others to chew on @squintz: with these other instances of games (pointed out) where trading was implemented and also very successful, how many of them were actual remakes where trading itself was not originally dev into the model of the game and how many of those remakes had stabilization issues as well?

I personally would like ^ to know, my friend.
 
Shamus The Brute said:
True. But this should not be so with a community-based issue such as trading (and whether or not it would benefit TLOPO). As such, I feel it wise if people would talk rather simply with no mystery and with no assumptions or predictions. ***Until that can be accomplished, there is NO basis which can overly convince me that your 50% success rate (in support of trading) overrules someone else's 50% success rate (opposed to trading). What needs to happen really for both sides is if TLOPO could make a public/official statement about the high interest and concern shown towards trading and whether it is feasible for TLOPO to test on neutral ground, as others have already suggested, like the QA server only for a period of time for the purpose of "gauging" how the game itself will react to trading.

Here's something else for you and others to chew on @squintz: with these other instances of games (pointed out) where trading was implemented and also very successful, how many of them were actual remakes where trading itself was not originally dev into the model of the game and how many of those remakes had stabilization issues as well?

I personally would like ^ to know, my friend.
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***Until that can be accomplished, there is NO basis which can overly convince me that your 50% success rate (in support of trading) overrules someone else's 50% success rate (opposed to trading). That's because you're failing to recognize it's been better than 60 -40 for trading, never 50/50. Not even close. The known numbers put it closer to 70% for trading in most threads.

And all the more so to try something new and let results decide the way. Instead of listening to pro and con 'assumptions'.
And back to the OP subject. Yes, it's about time, let's just do it and get it over with. Thankfully, I think tlopo isn't like the US government where committees are commissioned to study the committees that were commissioned to study the theories of the other committees who were commissioned to study the feasibility of forming a commission on whether they needed a commission in the first place.
 
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