Zia Badncool
Site Founder
That's a terrific idea. I'm sure that will make everything SO much easier for everyone. Thanks for getting this all started, Leo. 
I'm super excited. 
I'm super excited. -
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Petition for a better POTCO
- Thread starter LEO
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Meow Danny
Site Founder
Credits of all those working on this will be given in the end of the petition... I am NOT the only one working on this just to be clear and I do want all those helping because every one has pretty much volunteered to help me rather than me asking them for help.
That is right LEO so you you are in the right way about this
Anaximander
Wanted Pirate
Yes, the greatest thank you to everyone who worked on the petition, I think we ourselves might be doing more work then the game developers.Credits of all those working on this will be given in the end of the petition... I am NOT the only one working on this just to be clear and I do want to thank all those helping because every one has pretty much volunteered to help me rather than me asking them for help.
Meow Danny
Site Founder
I do not get what you mean. ????
Tom O'fury
Notorious Pirate
Alright... so i decided to read over this post.. but as I don't really play POTCO anymore.. my idea probably will mean next to nothing. We've all been sending e-mail upon e-mail to Disney about the issues in POTCO. Yet we still get automated replies. Granted this is a good idea.. but this is no incentive for the dev team to really pay attention to it. In their mind this is just a list of players. In which they think are probably only 12 or 13. We all know better than that and that the age group is much more than just that. They do not, a few years back they had a survery on the Disney site in which people older than 18 did not even have a slot to pick. it was only like 5 - 10? then 10 - 13? and something like that but no 18+. My idea is something along the lines of radical but I am most positive that it will grab quick attention from the team. What is the team's main goal? It is not , as they say to build a mmo that is worth something great. Their laziness and automated customer service is a perfect example of that. Disney is in it for the money. If you sign a pettition telling them to fix it, sure they might fix it. If you sign a pettition saying you will no longer pay for unlimited access until actions have been taken by the dev team, that would defintely recieve the attention you want.
Theres a large distance between a group of 30 - 40 players putting their name down saying they want change, and 30 - 40 pirates saying they are absolutely fed up and if something doesn't change. They will no longer pay.
Theres a large distance between a group of 30 - 40 players putting their name down saying they want change, and 30 - 40 pirates saying they are absolutely fed up and if something doesn't change. They will no longer pay.
S
Shamus The Brute
A valid point ye have made, Tom. And, it makes sense.
But, I think it was Leo whom had said it best within a reply on this thread.Here is the comment, which btw changed my mind about pressuring Disney with the effectiveness of an ultimatum.
https://piratesforums.co/threads/petition-for-a-better-potco.7235/page-4#post-122132
LEO
Site Founder
With the professionalism and the organization behind this petition, It will be clear that it is not just a bunch of kids making this petition but a dedicated group of players whom all want the best for POTCO and will prove that goods can come out of POTCO for both sides, Disney and the players.
Tom O'fury
Notorious Pirate
A valid point ye have made, Tom. And, it makes sense.
Here is the comment, which btw changed my mind about pressuring Disney with the effectiveness of an ultimatum.
https://piratesforums.co/threads/petition-for-a-better-potco.7235/page-4#post-122132
He makes a very good point here... but we're not trying to get the heads of Disney to look at us. We want the Dev team.. and yes Disney could easily put an end to the POTCO project. That would mean the dev team would lose their jobs. Disney Interactive runs... 4 mmos i think? Pixie Hollow, Cars Town, Toon Town, and POTCO. Should they lose one of their projects. Such as POTCO then that team assigned to that game would be more than likely asked to pack their bags. So.. with that said, That would strike the Dev team's attention. If that were me I would be start working as hard as I could in order to save my job. With the yes, small ammount of money POTCO brings in it is paying someones salary, and if that salary is taken away that person no longer has a job.
S
Shamus The Brute
I guess I was under the impression that this petition would not only be drafted for the POTCO "development team" but also key (Disney) business/decision makers whom have some pull as to the goals made for DIMG.
I have already taken my own initiative into discovering a few people (higher up) whom could serve as important to the fate of this petition but, I guess the "details" as to whom is contacted & whom is not will be hashed out a bit later, after the names are ultimately collected concerning support for this cause.
I have already taken my own initiative into discovering a few people (higher up) whom could serve as important to the fate of this petition but, I guess the "details" as to whom is contacted & whom is not will be hashed out a bit later, after the names are ultimately collected concerning support for this cause.
Problem is, the situation within DIMG over these past few years is that "many" have already seen massive layoffs take place within the division.
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Tom O'fury
Notorious Pirate
Exactly.. if we tell them that if they don't fix their game that the money will stop following it will more than likely get someone of higher ups attention. I would imagine that whoever is the person in charge of DIMG would make POTCO a priority if many players chose to stop paying. let's say about 100 players decide to stop paying for POTCO and still continue to play (number of players determined on how many people on on this website at time of this post.). Unlimited access costs $10 a month. So with that many players stoping the flow of cash is a loss of $100,000 a MONTH! That's alot of money. Now take into consideration. These 100 players are still playing POTCO. Means they are using up Bandwidth, Server space, and data transfers.. all cost money from Disney. An average "generalist" pay is about is about $95,300 anually. So, taking away $100,000 a month is like taking out one of the generalists (game upkeepers.) Now I'm not looking to send someone out of a job. This puts my idea more into a more realistic thought. Now if all goes to how it is planned many will be reading our petition. Which I plan to sign wether money is involved or not. Now all of my money crunching is based off of reading around on websites and my own knowledge of the business as I wanted to be a Game Developer myself for a while. Also, the amount of players is more than likely going to be more than 100 based on the fact that there are many more members on this forums site.
S
Shamus The Brute
I don't exactly have "the answer" into assuring the 100% success of this petition - Tom - but, what you did post above warrants at least some consideration towards the petition's content & overall strategic planning.
*Further discussion about this needs to be voiced...before the petition reaches it's final draft (which is Monday, July 30).
QUESTION: Should a clause be made at the end of the petition to include a "boycott" reaction if no action from the petition results???
*Further discussion about this needs to be voiced...before the petition reaches it's final draft (which is Monday, July 30).
QUESTION: Should a clause be made at the end of the petition to include a "boycott" reaction if no action from the petition results???
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LEO
Site Founder
You made the simplest mistake when speaking financially... lol. 100 unlimited players are 1,000 dollars a month, not 100,000.
Anyway, reading over your posts, it sounded like you are almost trying to bring this threat idea that fix the game or else you lose subscribers/money. Get better developers or else you lose subscribers/money. While in words it may sound tough, psychologically, it would hurt us that were not their supervisors. POTCO is a small investment in DIMG. Out of almost 4,000 workers that make up DIMG, my guess would be around 20 professionals are dedicated to potco with less than half probably being the content developers.
This Petition will bring up the economic perspective in its second part. However it will prove a point and try to convince why Pirates is not doing so well and how it can do well with mutual benefits, being money and customer satisfaction for DIMG (Disney also has to maintain their good reputation) and mainly plain old fun game play for the players.
This Petition will be directed at the high rankings of DIMG and those of Disney (along with other media attention to put more importance and make sure Disney gets the message). Like all companies, DIMG has advisers for POTCO so we have to be careful in what we do because we cannot pretend to be them or any one with a Disney badge. We can't just tell the consequences(at least not directly), first because consequences are obvious in a business in a sense that when a product isn't good enough than the sale will not be high enough, and secondly we do not have the authority. What we will do for sure and directly is convince them that POTCO is a good and original game. That POTCO can bring in a lot of money for them. That POTCO can be a great game potentially in the market. That POTCO can help DIMG which in its short existence has gone through financial hardships. We will try to convince them that all those are achievable by listening to the petition and fixing the general issues mentioned it. Things will kind of be cause and effect as long as we get the high rankings of DIMG attention because once they see that we are right and that maybe POTCO is worth the shot, then everything after that will follow up as an effect leading to hopefully an improved POTCO. I may have not included everything in this piece of writing (or if I explained it right) since I'm a bit tired but if you do have any questions, feel free to ask.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if this petition works, do not expect the next day after the petition to just see change.
Maybe and ONLY if Disney ignores our voices. Only if they don't give us at least some sort of signal that they have really gotten the message and respond in writing or some other way. Again, actual change cannot be expected the day after the petition is done with the signing. Perhaps on their next content release, change could come if they start fixing more issues... or doing more frequent maintenance in the game to keep it smooth and other positive stuff for the game.
JadeOHayes
Site Founder
For all of us who might lose track on how we got this far, and for you who just followed the formulation of the Petition, I'm going to summarize again. This discussion is moving forward, not circling in the same spot or even moving backwards discussing issues that have been discussed before, but it is important that to re-focus and remember the vision of this Petition.
The process did not just started on this thread on June 28, 2012. It was started on another thread (which now has been shoveled to the third page of this General Discussion Forum), https://piratesforums.co/threads/potco-whats-disney-been-up-to.7138/, on June 20, 2012. Please read the entire posts on both threads, to fully understand how we decided to go forward with a Petition and who the target groups are.
It was started as a wondering thought about what the game development team had been working on, and a lot of members had expectations, complaints, feedback and suggestions. So far we felt that all efforts directed to the game developer through the channel made available by Disney Potco, have not been responded satisfactorily. I personally pointed out that it would not make a lot of difference if we kept on complaining or sending feedback to the same people, because if they had not listened all this time, chances were, they were not going to change that, and all efforts would end up the same. And instead of 'chewing' the development team up, the efforts needed to be aimed to the higher level of decision makers, presenting the potential of the Potco game. The development team of Potco is not the decision maker', DIMG management team is. That was when Leo's idea of a Petition came about.
Among the target groups which this Petition is going to be presented to, are DIMG, the development team (of course they would get involved as well), and other parties where Potco could raise some attention. The idea of unifying voice and effort is to make it louder and more focused, thus it will raise the chance of getting the attention that has not been received before (while being done sporadically).
Be aware that - quoting Rannulf - a Petition is a 'letter of concern'. A petition does not work like a law or regulation; it does not have an actual legal power to 'force' the petitioners or the target group to execute what is listed in the Petition. However, a Petition does voice a group/community's opinion, so hopefully, (and it should), get the attention as intended. But of course, since it does not have a legal power, there is no guarantee that what is listed in the Petition will become a reality.
Because of this line of thought, the formulation of a Petition - what message that we as a community would like to convey to the target groups - is very crucial for the success of the Petition. It's an "art of communication"; what is the most effective way to convey a message, for the consumption of the target groups. Radicalism is one way that a group of people could think of, however bear in mind, that the petitioners are not the decision makers whether Potco game is going to exist, be updated, be revived or even be closed down. Potco currently is clearly not a thriving money-maker for DIMG; other DIMG products such as Club Penguin, Epic Mickey are their backbones. Forcing our desire onto DIMG decision makers would not be the most effective way to get what we want. Closing Potco is not what we want, and learning from other non-thriving Disney games, some of them have been closed down. If we use force such as, "Get us what we want, otherwise we are going to leave Potco", then it would make the decision so easy for DIMG to go the opposite way of what we want to see with Potco, and they could even decide to 'trim off the branch that bears very little fruit' (read: profit). It is their money; they could spend it however they want to, including this (please read links below, pointed out by Shamus The Brute):
https://piratesforums.co/threads/potco-commercial.6950/#post-123635
If we communicate to the target groups 'smartly' by showing the potentials of Potco; why Potco is worth keeping and reviving, what DIMG will receive by doing that, then we raise our chance of being heard. We are not oblivious to the fact that it all comes down to 'money', and the formulation of the Petition is going to touch that subject. Please also be aware that several ppl here do have insights on what is happening inside DIMG.
The process did not just started on this thread on June 28, 2012. It was started on another thread (which now has been shoveled to the third page of this General Discussion Forum), https://piratesforums.co/threads/potco-whats-disney-been-up-to.7138/, on June 20, 2012. Please read the entire posts on both threads, to fully understand how we decided to go forward with a Petition and who the target groups are.
It was started as a wondering thought about what the game development team had been working on, and a lot of members had expectations, complaints, feedback and suggestions. So far we felt that all efforts directed to the game developer through the channel made available by Disney Potco, have not been responded satisfactorily. I personally pointed out that it would not make a lot of difference if we kept on complaining or sending feedback to the same people, because if they had not listened all this time, chances were, they were not going to change that, and all efforts would end up the same. And instead of 'chewing' the development team up, the efforts needed to be aimed to the higher level of decision makers, presenting the potential of the Potco game. The development team of Potco is not the decision maker', DIMG management team is. That was when Leo's idea of a Petition came about.
Among the target groups which this Petition is going to be presented to, are DIMG, the development team (of course they would get involved as well), and other parties where Potco could raise some attention. The idea of unifying voice and effort is to make it louder and more focused, thus it will raise the chance of getting the attention that has not been received before (while being done sporadically).
Be aware that - quoting Rannulf - a Petition is a 'letter of concern'. A petition does not work like a law or regulation; it does not have an actual legal power to 'force' the petitioners or the target group to execute what is listed in the Petition. However, a Petition does voice a group/community's opinion, so hopefully, (and it should), get the attention as intended. But of course, since it does not have a legal power, there is no guarantee that what is listed in the Petition will become a reality.
Because of this line of thought, the formulation of a Petition - what message that we as a community would like to convey to the target groups - is very crucial for the success of the Petition. It's an "art of communication"; what is the most effective way to convey a message, for the consumption of the target groups. Radicalism is one way that a group of people could think of, however bear in mind, that the petitioners are not the decision makers whether Potco game is going to exist, be updated, be revived or even be closed down. Potco currently is clearly not a thriving money-maker for DIMG; other DIMG products such as Club Penguin, Epic Mickey are their backbones. Forcing our desire onto DIMG decision makers would not be the most effective way to get what we want. Closing Potco is not what we want, and learning from other non-thriving Disney games, some of them have been closed down. If we use force such as, "Get us what we want, otherwise we are going to leave Potco", then it would make the decision so easy for DIMG to go the opposite way of what we want to see with Potco, and they could even decide to 'trim off the branch that bears very little fruit' (read: profit). It is their money; they could spend it however they want to, including this (please read links below, pointed out by Shamus The Brute):
https://piratesforums.co/threads/potco-commercial.6950/#post-123635
If we communicate to the target groups 'smartly' by showing the potentials of Potco; why Potco is worth keeping and reviving, what DIMG will receive by doing that, then we raise our chance of being heard. We are not oblivious to the fact that it all comes down to 'money', and the formulation of the Petition is going to touch that subject. Please also be aware that several ppl here do have insights on what is happening inside DIMG.
Sires
Honorable Pirate
I think it's kind of funny how you guys think that this petition is going to actually be seen the higher ups. It could be, but let's be honest, this could easily just get passed by. The response will probably be, thank you for your concerns, we will continue to help potco. Or it could go very different....
Meow Danny
Site Founder
Why do you think that.
Tom O'fury
Notorious Pirate
...... lol I was tired xD that makes a whole new point to me though.. How much out of pocket money does Disney pay for this game to keep running??? 
I don't think there are enough subscribers to pay for all the expenses of running an mmo.I'm not trying to argue with everyone's points on all of this. I just want to make sure all ground is clear, although I do feel as though my posts could be taken as an argumentative nature if taken the wrong way. Anyways!From what I've heard... you are taking in the perspective that DIMG will actually care about running POTCO. Telling them what could be done through POTCO could mean nothing to them. Honestly, I think that Disney is only keeping this game running based upon the fact that we are still paying. We're paying the upkeep, we're paying someone to write the news events, code in a few new awards here and there, as well as network costs. They've more than likely closed the doors in the development room. I see no money in them fixing everything.. I mean sure that might bring along a few of the older players back. May cause for more people in buying unlimited.They would need a marketing stunt, they would need some way to advertise this game out to millions of people and get a good amount of people to sign up.
Seriously with today's world, Kids of 10 - 14 range are introduced to alot more.. if I may say vulgar types of media. Many are playing rated M games supposed to be reserved for adult gamers. Its become common to see someone of the age of 8 playing a game in which everyone is screaming and cursing and such. I'm not saying there aren't those who don't. I know when I was around that age not too long ago. I was not allowed to paly such games as my friends did and etc. The only way I can see this game coming around is if it gave these kids a reason to play POTCO rather than something else. Theres plenty of other MMO's to be interested in, plenty of different games to be interested in. Yes, as big fans of Pirates or of POTCO we are here. I know I stayed for as long as I did based on the community and that being the only reason. Thats about all POTCO really has going for it right now is the community, which isn't even run by Disney.
Also, as I'd like to hit more on the competitive ground of POTCO vs. Other MMOs. I know I've gone over this before, and I get many strong feelings from many of you present in this discussion. As this is merely just stating something that cannot be avoided. POTCO will have to compete somehow with other MMOs in making people want to play this rather than that.
POTCO - has low graphics, terrible framrate, but a really strong community and strong lore that COULD be inputed into the game. $10 a month.
Lord of the Rings Online - Has high graphics, good framrate, an ok community, and a strong lore that is inputed in the game. Free to play (you can purchase add-ons to your account with real money.)
Guild Wars 2 - New MMO still to be released (beta phase) - Has high graphics, good framerate, Community (not released) and a strong lore completely made up by game dev team. Pay once, play forever. $60
Lord of the Rings Online was created around the same time as POTCO.. I think a few years later. In MY opinion it blows away POTCO. Granted I enjoyed the combat syestem in POTCO more than lord of the rings, I did find almost everything else more interesting.
Now say this works, say we do get attention. Say Disney starts to think about furthering money into POTCO. POTCO will then be hopefully being fixed with all bugs and glitches but then has to entertain a new auidence. With the new money being placed into the development and fixing of POTCO. That money needs to come back somehow. They would then be incompetition to recieve new players. Which means they would be up against these other MMOs such as World of Warcraft, Star Wars The Old Republic, and Guild Wars 2, all big names in the mmo industry.
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Bartholomew Bladespinner
Site Founder
I remember when I first played POTCO I never though of the game having problems till now
Unfortunately that is more than likely gonna happen which is probably why
"The result of the Petition is not the main focus of this thread/discussion after all. The formulation is."
The game makers do not have to do anything just because a petition was made. Petitions for something involving law are one thing but the game makers have the right to choose what they do or do not do. If they were afraid of people leaving they'd do something but clearly they have other concerns. Either Potco has given up trying to compete with others or they just don't care.
But hey people play the lottery everyday even though the chances are low. If your lucky you just might win.
Ps you should probably remind everyone that talking about websites on the game can get you in banned. So they need to be aloof about it.
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