Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
20 people is not the majority of the community.
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Discussion Revert the Copperhead Broadside Nerf - Patch v1.21.2
- Thread starter Charles Warmonk
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Again, correct. But here you are assuming that the only feedback on this change has come from your poll.
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
My argument is just that... since it only comes from this poll it doesn't accurately represent the community.
The poll is merely there to see how many people change their position on the topic more than it is to actually "Vote" on the change itself.
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
Once again, this is assuming the player has Steel Cannon ram [ Which most do not ]
Also, even if you had it. - I am sure if you ran the numbers it will only make copperhead MORE comparable to Lighting/Skull N' Bones rather than "better".
My point still stands,
Why would someone ever pick Copperhead now? If you have a 15% chance to do near identical damage as a Skull N' Bones or Lightning?
Not matter how you slice it, it needs one [Or a combination] of the following changes:
- Higher explosive rate [20-30%]
- Higher amount of explosive allowed [2-3]
- Less Speed, Turning reduction from upgrading.
I did answer this above:
I do also believe that the developers were trying their best to get things back to how they are actually suppose to be. Please see here: https://piratesonline.fandom.com/wiki/Ship_Customization
If you notice it says 'Explosive Chance', meaning that is the chance that an explosive will be fired.
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
This post was created by PLAYERS on the wiki. - The stats, information, and details within this page are all fan based.I did answer this above:
I do also believe that the developers were trying their best to get things back to how they are actually suppose to be. Please see here: https://piratesonline.fandom.com/wiki/Ship_Customization
If you notice it says 'Explosive Chance', meaning that is the chance that an explosive will be fired.
Nothing was quoted from Disney here.
Ricardo McPigge
Sea Legs
While I'm not gonna say for certain that the "entirety" of the SvS community agrees with the copperhead change, I can confidently say that the vast majority loves the change and svs has been far more enjoyable as a result. Whatever community you refer to most definitely did not and has not taken part in TLOPO SvS as it was common knowledge that before the nerf coppers were extremely overtuned like Teague pointed out.
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
That's why option 2 was given. I am not disagreeing that the upgrade was not over powered.
However, they went far to overboard with this particular nerf.
I even just proposed an alternative options above:
- Higher explosive rate [20-30%]
- Higher amount of explosive allowed [2-3]
- Less Speed, Turning reduction from upgrading. [Stats you lose from upgrading.]
Ned_Reddavis
Honorable Pirate
Clearly you didn't read / don't believe my previous post showing that the 12 shot broadside ships have statistically an 86% chance to actually do slightly higher average damage than lightning and much higher than skull.
Yes, I know very well what the wiki is. I've posted and added content there myself. And where did I say that I quoted Disney?? I never did!
**Edit, after rereading what you said above, I see what you're saying... the wiki doesnt quote Disney. This I know to be true for a lot of things there, and I never was implying that the stats on the ship upgrades were a quote from Disney. I am only stating that the stats for the upgrades are the known from POTCO.
I said they were trying to get things back to the way they were. Yes, those numbers and chart and pics are all from the fans who were smart enough to figure out how the math was back in POTCO. Please, remember the whole goal of the developers of TLOPO is to try to bring back POTCO. To bring back the game as it was at the close. And I'm sorry, but that also means to get the ships coding to work correctly, as it was back in POTCO, which includes the ship upgrades that have been faulty in TLOPO for quite a while.
**Edit, after rereading what you said above, I see what you're saying... the wiki doesnt quote Disney. This I know to be true for a lot of things there, and I never was implying that the stats on the ship upgrades were a quote from Disney. I am only stating that the stats for the upgrades are the known from POTCO.
I said they were trying to get things back to the way they were. Yes, those numbers and chart and pics are all from the fans who were smart enough to figure out how the math was back in POTCO. Please, remember the whole goal of the developers of TLOPO is to try to bring back POTCO. To bring back the game as it was at the close. And I'm sorry, but that also means to get the ships coding to work correctly, as it was back in POTCO, which includes the ship upgrades that have been faulty in TLOPO for quite a while.
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
If it's 86% for 1 shot.
What is the numbers for Skull N' Bones and Lighting?
My point is even when it DOES do the 1 shot. It is untimely the same damage for more more stats loss.
[Spd,Turn Spd, and such]
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
I just don't see where you are getting this "Chance to shoot AN explosive"
It says this for all ship upgrade ammo types. Should they all be limited to 1 fury? 1 Lighting Bolt? Due to whatever source you're using says it was intended that way?
Ned_Reddavis
Honorable Pirate
The way I see it is that you're buying into high survivability against tougher ships while also having an excellent chance at top tier, but maybe not the highest, damage. But with stormchaser you are buying into consistently high damage at a risk by removing a lot of armor, making the ship more susceptible to sinking.
If you wanna know more about broadside damage in depth check out this guide!
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Leon Hexmalley
Pirate Apprentice
How would the community as a whole benefit from a supposed copperhead buff?
I cannot think of what exactly it would yield us.
However, the patch applied to copperheads has benefited us in the svs community in tremendous ways.
-Our complaints are no longer about classes of ships as they've become balanced.
Weve moved on to the more nit picky things, as the game gets closer and closer to a considerably balanced state. Why would we want to revert that progress?
I cannot think of what exactly it would yield us.
However, the patch applied to copperheads has benefited us in the svs community in tremendous ways.
-Our complaints are no longer about classes of ships as they've become balanced.
Weve moved on to the more nit picky things, as the game gets closer and closer to a considerably balanced state. Why would we want to revert that progress?
The same argument can be made about your belief that the stats mean there will be more than one of that specialty ammo type to be shot. It's just basic logic to assume that since no # for the amount (how many) of that specialty ammo being shot was given, then it's just a chance for that ammo to be shot period.
Here is a question... Can anyone actually remember how many explosives were shot in POTCO with a fully upgraded copperhead 1. after the customization were released and 2. just before POTCO closed? The reason I'm asking about both those two times is because we all know very well how buggy and messed up/broken a lot things were in POTCO at the close (which was likely because the developers were no longer fixing the bugs at that time as they had in the past).
I mean, I'm quite interested if anyone knows for sure. Has evidence of this. It would help the developers and the community. However, I still stand by my opinion that this was a good change BECAUSE there is no longer an unfair advantage to someone who shoots explosive broadsides in SvS.
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
Copperhead is unquestionably the hardest upgrade to max. - Due to how difficult it is to obtain Iron it should be the best upgrade for at the very least hunter/warship farming. [Mat Runs for short]
This buff [To the currently nerfed] Copperhead would make the ship a viable option for loot runs again. Currently, it is weaker, slower, less maneuverability, for the same damage.
What I am suggesting is a change to make it a top contender for mat runs once again with one [Or a few] of the following options.
- Higher explosive rate [20-30%]
- Higher amount of explosive allowed [2-3]
- Less Speed, Turning reduction from upgrading.
Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
You just proved my point of why relying on old sources/statements from the past is not a good way to start a constructive discussion.
The logic that since it says "An explosive shot" is not a good reason to make it so.
I don't like the argument of "Lore" dictating "Balance."
If we based things off Lore, than Jack Sparrow's Blade would have the same stats as Heart of Padres Del Fuego.
Leon Hexmalley
Pirate Apprentice
here is a video of a copperhead mat run in potco. Besides the obvious like Ship speed being 3 knots lower in potco vs tlopo, i do not think i saw the high damage number of an explosive appear more than once per broadside. correct me if i am wrong.
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Charles Warmonk
Wiki Staff
Just so it's easier for everyone to tell if you are testing copperhead yourself or want to count it.
A round shot has a white trail behind its shot.
An Explosive shot has NO trail at all. Making it easy to tell the difference between how many shots are explosive before it hits the target.
I'm sorry but I disagree.
You do realize that the developers not only rely on what they see in the code in the first place, but the stats and information that was gathers by POTCO Players (human beings who are sources and their statements left there), as well as any other information that this forums has held from POTCO (again, human beings who put statements and left sources from POTCO playtime). discussions with former POTCO players, and let's not forget videos from those former players (which I'm sure probably some of your videos have been looked at when trying to figure out how some things worked if you've got any.... they relay on old sources/statements to better understand POTCO and how to fix issues with TLOPO.
I think at this point, well it feels to me like this anyway... that you're upset with us (at least me) for trying to look at this whole thing logically with evidence from the past, including the wiki which you are a huge part of, instead of agreeing that this change needs to be reverted. And I'm sorry if I've ticked you off in anyway. I do think this has been a good discussion concerning the copperhead.
I'm going to part for the night wishing all here will have a good night/morning. I am going to take a break.
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