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You meet the nicest people in this game.
- Thread starter Eric Sailcutter
- Start date
Bart Hexdavis
Sea Legs
shame
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Blondie357
Honorable Pirate
I've read that three times and I have no words....
This might not be your best interest but I think actually being nice to them and trying to talk to them about their personal problems might help. I feel like most of these kinds of players just have personal problems and are just deflecting onto people like yourself. They also most likely crave the negative attention like for example when someone argues back at them they will continue to harass and troll until the other person just stops and leaves. I actually used to be like these people where I just troll people on tortuga and craved the attention that I got.
Ahoy all,
The screenshots in the OP's post have been edited from the post along with one post being deleted in accordance with the Naming and Shaming rule as per the Terms and Rules which can be found here https://piratesforums.co/help/terms/.
We're allowing this thread to continue but please be respectful and on-topic. If screenshots are required to get the point across, be sure to black out the names.
With kindest regards,
Global mod Arabella Drummond
The screenshots in the OP's post have been edited from the post along with one post being deleted in accordance with the Naming and Shaming rule as per the Terms and Rules which can be found here https://piratesforums.co/help/terms/.
We're allowing this thread to continue but please be respectful and on-topic. If screenshots are required to get the point across, be sure to black out the names.
With kindest regards,
Global mod Arabella Drummond
J
Jeffrey Plundersmythe
w8 till you get to know me : D
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Shamus The Brute
And...me too.
People whom put their trust in their bad behavior (in-game) won't likely change unless:
- They have much...MUCH to lose
- They receive the kind of treatment they push onto others by themselves being treated the same (exact) way
- They come to an understanding to change for the better, for themselves, by someone reaching out to them personally
If it were TLOPO I would stamp this out completely (simply because the QTY. of time it would take for me to dev such a remake 'bad behavior' could be just the thing to destroy and counter every effort made towards providing a decent game for the public to enjoy). Here's maybe what a TLOPO player alone should do - in my opinion:
- Follow them around (don't say anything, just follow. You have to sacrifice your own time though)
- Find an imaginative way to get them to understand what they are doing is wrong (without putting them on the defensive)
- Report them (don't ignore) if things become worse
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Eric Sailcutter
Pirate Lord
The goal of this thread is not to go after players who try to snake other's looting spots, "stealing a loot spot isn't against our rules" and not to point out existing recourse against trolls, such as reporting, either. It's to brainstorm mechanics that could be added to the game that would discourage the abusive language and bullying of trolls in land situations as the boot option for sailing did for sailing. I am not advocating for any rules changes, such as instituting reserved looting spots, nor am I advocating for more servers, I do not believe that lack of looting spots has anything to do with this issue at all. I'm certainly not of the opinion that TLOPO staff are unaware, unsympathetic, or unwilling to try to work on this issue.
At this point there was a suggestion of a call for moderation system which I sense has potential:
- I feel that speed of consequences is crucial to discouraging this behavior, I have no proof or data to support that. If moderators were able to quickly check on each situation and if they had simple rules that allowed for very quick decision making then this could accomplish that part of the equation. Exactly what such rules might be is up for debate for sure. I worry that such a scheme might overload moderators and so be impractical but I really don't know.
- The recourse on such interventions should be fairly minimal with minimal record keeping, keep things simple. I envision quickly booting a player to their desktop and locking their account from the server that the infraction occurred in for say 24 hours so that they could not use the same account to go back to the same place. Of course there could be more standard consequences such as bans for repeat offenses or extreme language and bullying but I'm not really pushing for that. I more want to aim at removing the troll from the situation very quickly rather than punishing everyone that does a little trolling, make it hard for them to persist long in any situation thus discourage the behavior.
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Shamus The Brute
As you do, I like @Blondie357 idea about moderators themselves being (physically) brought into the situation. Her idea, again, can be found here: https://piratesforums.co/threads/you-meet-the-nicest-people-in-this-game.29001/post-377850
What if...a RED colored "ray of light" mechanic could be instituted into the game to where when a pirate feels another is guilty of an infraction an option exists for them to shower a ray upon said player which follows them around until a moderator has the opportunity to call upon said beacon? This mechanic would:
- Mark immediately a pirate causing trouble (to which they could not escape the ray's cloud shadow or 'light' unless a). a moderator on that server alone could address or, b.) they would have to log off but couldn't return back to the same server for 24 hours)
- Physically draw-in a moderator's presence (into a game circumstance) where their presence alone would likely deter further abuse occurring
- The burden of guilt or innocence would immediately be heard to which the moderator would be called to act according to pre-determined guidelines or rules the TLOPO staff shall have posted publicly for everyone to easily understand prior to logging onto the game
- The player having the option to shower the other with the ray of light couldn't leave the area or...the ray itself would disappear, making it difficult for players to abuse the system until after a moderator's decision was completely made (on-the-spot)
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Shamus The Brute
Some TRUTH from this Brute...
- I hope and pray TLOPO devs/staff take this thread and ^ above points written, seriously
- POTCO became "no fun" to play (on account of hackers, trolls, and trouble-makers)
- When I played POTCO I hesitated to permit my own kids to play the game (read again the point 'above')
- TLOPO has shown itself capable of doing and providing mechanics which improve the game
- A lot of smart people are running this boat (aka the TLOPO 'machine')
- Moderators and ADMINS. from this forums...I would trust ANY ONE OF THEM to fulfill and oversee the same level of moderation priority to TLOPO as they have brought to this forums
- True moderation begins with the power and level of the player! POTCO did not offer this. TLOPO can and should.
Eric Sailcutter
Pirate Lord
Not really a fan of your red ray idea, I think that a moderator could be called in by the plaintiff without any other person being notified and that the moderator could and should simply observe what is going on without communicating to anyone simply making their assessment based on observation alone. And, yes, of course, there should be rules that the moderator is required to follow that are published and easy to find and understand. The rules should be simple and should make it easy for the moderator to do all that he/she needs to do and move on. When a moderator is summoned and they observe nothing irregular going on they should simply move on without taking action. In a scheme such as
this it might be easy for a troll to falsely summon moderators, need to have a way to control that???
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Shamus The Brute
Not too many people, OK...just about everyone, has never agreed with my hard-line approach towards keeping unruly pirates accountable. So really Eric, no worries there.
In my opinion, there is no other way to hold others accountable (online) in a public setting such as this forums or TLOPO. *Niceties must be put aside because if there is one (1) lesson learned to which we can take away from POTCO it's that niceties and a "reactive" approach has failed towards stamping out pirates whom intentionally cause trouble. This was our past and apparently...it is still happening.
To "walk quietly and carry a big stick" is not too popular today but I beg to ask, what choice do we have? *Something attached or to which MARKS a pirate (for wrong doing) temporarily in-game is the quickest way to influence a change in their behavior. I believe this to be so because nothing else yet has worked.
Blondie357
Honorable Pirate
I feel that the actions described clearly violated at least one rule, and that was ruining another's gaming experience but I guess that would be up to the moderator that would be handling it.. and a simple in game function or button somewhere on the game screen that we could click to request one to tp.. would suffice.
Also, I'm not sure how that would work either Shamus because wouldn't that be considered shaming another pirate by having a beacon on them? Frankly, I think that rule is outdated. It may have worked in POTCO (IF that's where it originated) but it no longer seems beneficial now. Some pirates NEED to be shamed to an extent if that's what it takes to stop their behavior. It's ridiculous that they can get away with some of the things they say to other pirates. I witnessed an argument on Tortuga last nite that was just digusting. If they are allowed to carry on that way, they should be singled out in whatever means necessary. Just my opinion.
Also, I'm not sure how that would work either Shamus because wouldn't that be considered shaming another pirate by having a beacon on them? Frankly, I think that rule is outdated. It may have worked in POTCO (IF that's where it originated) but it no longer seems beneficial now. Some pirates NEED to be shamed to an extent if that's what it takes to stop their behavior. It's ridiculous that they can get away with some of the things they say to other pirates. I witnessed an argument on Tortuga last nite that was just digusting. If they are allowed to carry on that way, they should be singled out in whatever means necessary. Just my opinion.
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Shamus The Brute
In my real personal life, I am about as easy going and patient with others as they come. (I believe strongly in both forgiveness and second chances).
There comes a time when a person has to say, enough is enough! While I do promise everyone that I don't know everything, what I can share is that there is something which happens when people understand there are serious consequences and repercussions. *I am stating in the today and now that this simply must occur, at some point, if TLOPO is to ever better POTCO.
Eric Sailcutter
Pirate Lord
Not too many people, OK...just about everyone, has never agreed with my hard-line approach towards keeping unruly pirates accountable. So really Eric, no worries there.
In my opinion, there is no other way to hold others accountable (online) in a public setting such as this forums or TLOPO. *Niceties must be put aside because if there is one (1) lesson learned to which we can take away from POTCO it's that niceties and a "reactive" approach has failed towards stamping out pirates whom intentionally cause trouble. This was our past and apparently...it is still happening.
To "walk quietly and carry a big stick" is not too popular today but I beg to ask, what choice do we have? *Something attached or to which MARKS a pirate (for wrong doing) temporarily in-game is the quickest way to influence a change in their behavior. I believe this to be so because nothing else yet has worked.
My basic idea is that trolling on ships was pretty much eliminated by the boot option and it was not through any heavy handed punishments and was more about quick response and the trolls being unable to persist for enough time to seriously interrupt anyone’s game. My hope is that we can come up with a similar concept for land. One that is focused on quick removal of the troll from the situation not on bans , branding, or other punishments. A troll can’t ply his trade in only a line or two of text. I think that the boot option was very effective even though it doesn’t change the hearts of trolls nor does it punish trolls. It makes it difficult to troll. That is what I’m after, ideas that can add mechanics to the game that make trolling more difficult.Not too many people, OK...just about everyone, has never agreed with my hard-line approach towards keeping unruly pirates accountable. So really Eric, no worries there.
In my opinion, there is no other way to hold others accountable (online) in a public setting such as this forums or TLOPO. *Niceties must be put aside because if there is one (1) lesson learned to which we can take away from POTCO it's that niceties and a "reactive" approach has failed towards stamping out pirates whom intentionally cause trouble. This was our past and apparently...it is still happening.
To "walk quietly and carry a big stick" is not too popular today but I beg to ask, what choice do we have? *Something attached or to which MARKS a pirate (for wrong doing) temporarily in-game is the quickest way to influence a change in their behavior. I believe this to be so because nothing else yet has worked.
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Shamus The Brute
The only option I can think of is something which directly brings a moderator physically into the situation in-game (because there is no other way to 'boot' someone on land being the justification alone encompasses numerous reasons/possibilities only a moderator alone can resolve). This brings then the "how" into the equation but unless you report someone, how then shall this be achieved?
A ray of light is the only thing I can think of to resolve this. In addition, said beacon could actually boost the enthusiasm of moderators themselves...giving them a direct line to carry forth their roles. Ever heard of superheroes? I think deep down in-game moderators could be a hero for at least someone being bullied.
A ray shown in the sky could do this.
Eric Sailcutter
Pirate Lord
I think the how can be accomplished by a call button that would call a moderator that is already in game and that the moderator could then observe the situation with no markers on players and no interaction with either party, just go see what’s going on and decide for themselves under the guidance of rules for dealing with such situations. If it’s truly a troll they will be easily identified by their actions. Another thing is that I’m sure moderation mistakes are sure to happen no matter how good the safeguards against it are and so that is part of why I’m against the heavy handed approach. I feel that the sailing boot option was brilliantly executed so as to discourage trolling without dire consequences for anyone, guilty or not.The only option I can think of is something which directly brings a moderator physically into the situation in-game (because there is no other way to 'boot' someone on land being the justification alone encompasses numerous reasons/possibilities only a moderator alone can resolve). This brings then the "how" into the equation but unless you report someone, how then shall this be achieved?
A ray of light is the only thing I can think of to resolve this. In addition, said beacon could actually boost the enthusiasm of moderators themselves...giving them a direct line to carry forth their roles. Ever heard of superheroes? I think deep down in-game moderators could be a hero for at least someone being bullied.
A ray shown in the sky could do this.
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Misha
Site Founder
I love the direction in which this thread is heading regarding security against trolls and mischievous players, however, I do want to point out a couple things from the above few posts (not just the quoted one).
A call-mod button is already in the game, you see. The "Report" feature acts more efficiently in comparison, which is why we often recommend to simply just report the player accordingly. There is no reason for an active call button, and is quite a stress-inducing feature for staff if they must be immediately called to your location. It doesn't make sense.
If you recall back to the recent Moderation Policy revision posted here on the forums on August 25th, It was stated by the crew that as an extension of this change, players will no longer face termination for chat offenses, even if they hit our ten point threshold. This is taking steps away from full on banning players regarding their chat infractions, and to my knowledge this is the only extent of trolling that is readily doable in TLOPO.
On the other hand, things such as abuse of systems regarding in-game mechanics would technically be more in the realm of player griefing. Stealing looting spots, blocking player ships, etc. But if chat violations are still in order, then Report them!
Finally, I wanted to grab this line from your most recent post @Eric Sailcutter:
Yes, mistakes happen, as we are all only human and things do happen. However, I'm not sure what you are suggesting would be an efficient way in dealing with the problem of trolls and mischief.
I DO ask that this post in specific not be responded to, as I have no intention to derail the thread. Keep putting out ideas, we are paying attention and we love to see them.
I'd like to take a moment to talk about this issue with Rude and Bullying people in game, which happens to be an issue that existed in POTCO and continues to exist in all game across multiple platforms.
First, POTCO as well as TLOPO had/has, as @Misha stated above, provided ways to deal with situations as best as you possibly can. There is not only a Report button (looks like a shield with an ! in the middle of it) but also the Ignore button (which looks like a doll with a diagonal line running through it).
Regarding chat issues, when people are verbally abusing others, these are the two BEST options. If you use the Report button to report their chat for offensive chat (anything explicit or filter evasions) it will send a report into the moderation staff AND it will prevent you from seeing anymore of their chat. The Ignore button, which is what should be used when their chat is not violating the TOS, WILL also prevent you from seeing their chat anymore.
Turning to what I like to call Hijacking of a loot spot...
This has always been an issue in POTCO and TLOPO, and unfortunately there is one form of this or another in all games and in all platforms. This is the hardest thing for any staff of any game to moderate BECAUSE there is no area in game that can be 'owned' or 'leased' or 'rented' by any one player or group of players. The problem is, I don't see any way that this could be moderated as we all wish it could be.
The call button idea that someone posted above would, as Misha said, cause a lot of stress. There are many many more players than there are moderators. This would require moderation staff to be on call 24/7, which would interfere with their real jobs in real life.
The only advice I can give is:
First, POTCO as well as TLOPO had/has, as @Misha stated above, provided ways to deal with situations as best as you possibly can. There is not only a Report button (looks like a shield with an ! in the middle of it) but also the Ignore button (which looks like a doll with a diagonal line running through it).
Regarding chat issues, when people are verbally abusing others, these are the two BEST options. If you use the Report button to report their chat for offensive chat (anything explicit or filter evasions) it will send a report into the moderation staff AND it will prevent you from seeing anymore of their chat. The Ignore button, which is what should be used when their chat is not violating the TOS, WILL also prevent you from seeing their chat anymore.
Turning to what I like to call Hijacking of a loot spot...
This has always been an issue in POTCO and TLOPO, and unfortunately there is one form of this or another in all games and in all platforms. This is the hardest thing for any staff of any game to moderate BECAUSE there is no area in game that can be 'owned' or 'leased' or 'rented' by any one player or group of players. The problem is, I don't see any way that this could be moderated as we all wish it could be.
The call button idea that someone posted above would, as Misha said, cause a lot of stress. There are many many more players than there are moderators. This would require moderation staff to be on call 24/7, which would interfere with their real jobs in real life.
The only advice I can give is:
- First and foremost, treat others as you want to be treated and hold yourself up to the highest of standards when interacting with anyone in game. Keep in mind, even though there are many many adults who now play this game, there are still many kids who do as well. If you wouldn't want your child/future child/little brother or sister/cousin to see or experience that kind of behavior, then don't do it.
- Sometimes it is best to just walk away. If this person who is harassing you over a loot spot has NO way of knowing where you're going to be when you TP away, then do it. They would have to change to how many servers and run around looking for you again?? That would cause them more work and grief, and would allow you the chance to play in peace.
- I am NOT a fan of Naming and Shaming because it IS another form of bullying. However, keeping your guild and friends informed of any people who are issues in game does allow your guild and friends to better prepare themselves for when they do come across a known offensive player. This is a way to protect yourself, your guild and your friends WITHOUT calling those people out in public. REMEMBER any form of a public announcement naming someone and their offenses, whether on the forums or in the game IS naming and shaming.
- Do not lower yourself to the same level as someone who is a jerk. Getting a group of people together to confront a known offensive player IS bullying as well.