Content Spotlight Discussion: Trading

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What I don't get are the people saying to either make legendaries not tradable, or weapons as a whole. Weapons not being traded is like 90% of the reason why people want trading implemented. Saying to not make them tradable would defeat a lot of the practical purpose for this feature. Everything should be tradable. The community will come up with pricing accordingly. Just like in any other MMO.
It's because people want their weapons to be a reflection of the time they've spent looting for them, not how skilled of a haggler they are or how rich their generous guildmates are. Or worse, how much real money they're willing to pour into behind-the-scenes transactions.
 
I don't want it to just be like any other MMO. I want having a legendary to mean only one thing: you earned it.
You could still feel like you earned it and it's probably unlikely that the majority of players will just give out their stuff for nothing and if the staff is concerned with that then they could just stop players from being able to get an item for nothing. People still have to loot items to trade for other items.
 
Here are my thoughts:

Trading will change TLOPO completely. It will change the entire looting aspect of the game and will forever leave a scar on the looting community. That said, if it does indeed become implemented, there are some very important things that need to be considered:

1. NO LEGENDARIES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE TRADED
2. An economy will start to form. People will act outside of TLOPO and start to use things like PayPal to do their own transactions; selling items for monetary amounts - particularly rarer items - and this is bound to happen.
3. The “coin” emblem should be added to TRADED items as opposed to UNTRADED (or looted items) as to preserve the integrity of how the card has looked for looted items for the entire duration of the game.

I think we can work together to make trading more positive than negative, but it will require heavy consultation from all corners of the game - all player types.
 
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Here are my thoughts:

Trading will change TLOPO completely. It will change the entire looting aspect of the game and will forever leave a scar on the looting community. That said, if it does indeed become implemented, there are some very important things that need to be considered:

1. NO LEGENDARIES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE TRADED
2. An economy will start to form. People will act outside of TLOPO and start to use things like PayPal to do their own transactions; selling items for monetary amounts - particularly rarer items - and this is bound to happen.
3. The “coin” emblem should be added to TRADED items as opposed to UNTRADED (or looted items) as to preserve the integrity of how the card has looked for looted items for the entire duration of the game.

I think we can work together to make trading more positive than negative, but it will require heavy consultation from all corners of the game - all player types.
How many people do you actually believe will use paypal and is that number greater than the people who aren't going to use paypal? I like your 3rd idea.
 
As someone who was a huge advocate for trading but always stayed neutral in all the trading discussions and I think we all had this coming.

First off, I want to reinstate the comments I've said about keeping the audacity of being a looter from previous trading discussion threads and not to make myself a hypocrite to what im about to say later on.

I personally have no feelings towards trading, if you want to show you got something legit post a screenshot of getting it through looting. Otherwise, let the other people that want to trade, trade.
If you dont want to trade then dont. Take a screenshot of the item you looted and brag about it all you want. There is a screenshot looting thread for a reason, and it will come in a greater purpose when trading comes. I am not for trading so that means I wont trading when trading is added. I wont judge others if they got in a trade a legendary. I guess what I am trying to say is if you arent for trading then dont put others down for trading and getting the items they always wanted. If a trader feels satisfaction to trade an item(s) rather than looting/plundering it, so be it. If a looter feels satisfaction looting/plundering an item(s) rather than trading it, so be it.

Now, they showcased another way to prove that someone has traded. However I like Mark's concept better
3. The “coin” emblem should be added to TRADED items as opposed to UNTRADED (or looted items) as to preserve the integrity of how the card has looked for looted items for the entire duration of the game.

Moving on, looting is the end game after maxing your pirate. For some it might be before like me, lol. After coming back to the game since August and looting way more than usual since then; I would like to take back what I said in previous trading discussions.
I think legendaries shouldn't be traded even if its a legendary for legendary. As much as I wanna believe that screenshots and not having a coin mark like Mark's concept (pun intended) will keep the integrity, for others it just doesn't register which I completely understand. For more integrity and trading itself, I assume there will be a way to link your item in the chat. So there is that incase if legendaries are able to be traded. Idk like I said before, I won't knock anyone trading even if its getting a legendary.

TLDR: I still think screenshots and the without the coin mark like Mark's concept are still able to keep the integrity for legendary but everyone isn't on the same page so its best that they aren't tradeable. Lets start with babysteps.

With all be said here are my suggestions:

- Legendary shouldn't be allowed to be traded unless to pirates within the same account.
- Items should be eye for eye. Famed for Famed unless you are giving items to your other pirates.
- Level 35 required to trade
- to trade cursed weapons must have Raven Cove Quest done (as said earlier)
- Once an item is equipped it is account-bound (meaning you can only trade to the other pirates you have on your account) (I also don't want this to ruin the weapon cards, I guess having an NPC or a command to check)
- Any items that are bought from material in the grinding events or the material themselves (bones and moonstones) shouldn't be tradeable (some things should be exclusive and these are perfect)
- ?: Im not sure about ship material before I think I said yes but I don't even know
- Having a double confirmation from both parties before items are getting traded
 
Trading seems like a cool idea with the following acceptation: NO TRADING LEGENDARIES. I am a player who is active for 8 to 14 hours a day (when I am not busy). The main purpose of me continuing to come online is the joy of going to a boss (or gold room) and putting in countless hours looking for legendaries. It's a really fun experience and I would like to continue to play for that same reason. The idea of allowing the trade of legendaries will lead to the outcome of me quitting the game and I can definitely assure I am not the only one. It would be a shame to see people quit... Greed and Glory, a fantastic guild that I am proud to say I am part of, with activity MINIMUM up to 20 people a day, populated with some of the biggest names in the game, and a reputation of AT LEAST one of our members receiving a legendary that day. My guild mates are amazing people and it would be sad to see most of these guys quit over something like this. The guild is alive and running for one main reason: looting and we freaking love it. We grind together, we congratulate one another when one of us reaches the top of the mountain every time, we cry together when we find out we got another silver freeze or el patron XD. The trading of legendaries will lead to the outcome of effecting a huge community. As long as this does not happen, I am all for trading. Thanks for taking the time to read this, much love!
 
You can debate if trading should be implemented or not but it will be happening. We are mainly looking for feedback on how trading should take shape, not whether it should be in the game or not.

These are some of the ideas the team has discussed in the past:
1. Eye for an eye- you can only trade a legendary in exchange for another legendary item.
2. Legendaries won't be tradeable.
3. To trade for a cursed item, you must have completed the Raven's Cove Story Quest.
4. Quest items are off limits.
5. You can disable trading on your account page to avoid getting spammed with requests.

Let us know what you think of these and please send any suggestions you have!

Remember, trading will be heavily tested on a public testing server (that many players will have access to) prior to being implemented on the public server.
If YOU are making an executive [ or @The Crew unanimously ] agreed it worth overruling any input of the content cut or not. (Which is what this post implies...) then I really hope before you consider the following before confirming this BOLD statement.

You all as community leaders [ @The Crew ] should starts taking a closer look at who your most dedicated community members/leaders are over simi-majority that plays..... once or twice a week/month. This is assuming you're doing this to strike up your lowering population... then I assure you this will UNDOUBTEDLY have OPPOSITE effect.

I never felt the need to explain this, but with this rash statement I want to make it crystal clear before I express my feelings. What keeps YOUR [ @The Crew ] game alive is existence of MANY different, small, big, and creative community groups.

We have everything here... from competitive players, SvS'ers, PvP'ers all the way to Storytellers, Guild builders, and wonderful content creators that all that have one beloved thing in common.
We spend our cherished time together laughing, raging, discussing, and relaxing. Over one special and unique content that took this community from quitting at level 50 to logging in everyday for so many years... looting.

I don't like to be the bad guy or naysayer... However, I only say this as one of the many members of the community who put a near immeasurable about of time and energy [That I don't regret even for a second] in helping and building this community in each our own special ways. [ like a lot of us from POTCO players have a habit of doing. <3] So it pains my heart to say this but. . .

Adding trading is the equivalent of adding an expiration date on TLOPO...
I know some of my post as well as other community members` post can be a bit emotionally charged... and I apologies for adding to that list. Yet, this just shows you how much the hate/sadness/rage and even tears have been boiling up over this sudden development, so I personally beg you all... please.

Do not add trading. 😥
 
This is a long post so there's a tl;dr at the end :)

Personally I'm in favour of trading. I play another fan-revived game, FusionFall Retro, that has always had trading implemented as a huge aspect of the game. The game thrives largely because of its trading community. Some items have an in-game sell value of, say, 150 Taros (FFR's currency), but since they're rare, players will sell/buy them for upwards of 2,5 million Taros. And as expected, when some items are no longer rare, like when Halloween-specific items were released into normal enemy drop pools, their prices dropped back down to only a couple hundred Taros. However, this only encourages players to continue grinding for the rarest items, whether that be to make some serious cash or for just the prestige of having a no-longer-obtainable item. Some super dedicated members of the community have even made huge guides to what enemies drop what items and how much certain items cost within the trading community. But I digress.

There are some very clear restrictions in place with their trading system that could possibly be implemented in TLOPO:
- Most quest items (usually Guide items*, items with some of the best stats per level) are not tradeable, nor are they combinable with other items (FFR has an item combining system to change a particular item's stats or style).
- Code items are not tradeable.
- Most event items
(FFR has anniversary and holiday celebration events, similar to TLOPO) are not tradeable.
- Combined items are not tradeable.
- There is a maximum amount of Taros
allowed to be given to a player through in-game player emails.

* FFR has a set of four "Guides" that give out a different set of quests and item sets that are special to that Guide, and if you switch Guides, any other Guide items previously earned cannot be equipped. Basically, select Guide A and you can only equip Guide A's items, but if you switch to Guide B, you will still have Guide A's items but only be allowed to equip Guide B's items.

I feel like trading in TLOPO could be an alright feature if:
- Legendaries are definitely not tradeable.
This seems to be a major point people have been making. I also agree that Legendaries should not be traded since it would most definitely take away the value of said items.

- Code items are not tradeable.
Personally, this is self-explanatory so I'm not sure what to say about this point. Keep in mind that in my following points, when I mention any items that can be traded, I am still excluding code items.

- There is a limit on how much gold and/or mats can be traded at a time.
I understand that some people are worried about mat runs being totally useless if we can just trade mats. So, I personally think there should be a limit. What that limit would be exactly, I can't quite say. But I would understand the frustration of someone spending hours or days or even weeks grinding mats, just to have someone else do no work and instantly get just as much.

- There are quest requirements for certain items or sets of items.
I mean... yeah. I also think you should only be allowed to trade Cursed Blades after completing the Raven's Cove questline. It makes a lot of sense to me.

- Quest items/items required for quests are not tradeable.
This is pretty self-explanatory. I think this might go in hand with the previous bullet point. You should still do the work to get a certain quest item, and now, since we have the quest reward vendors, if you want a quest item, you can just buy it from them. Being able to trade them would probably make that feature a little obsolete. And if there is an item needed to complete a quest, like needing to brew a Staff Enchant I potion to complete Madame Zigana's quest (and a Staff Enchant II for the bonus item), you definitely shouldn't be allowed to trade or receive that item until that quest has been completed.

- Clothing is tradeable.
I'm not quite sure about peddler clothing sets, but I do feel that all other clothes should definitely be tradeable.

- Anti-scam/anti-exploit measures are in place.
This feels a little unnecessary to say, but it's a given with really any feature. And obviously this is what quality assurance is for, but security measures should always be in place.

Now, I understand TLOPO and FFR are not quite the same game. TLOPO and FFR both have huge looting aspects and they both have subcommunities with their own needs. In fact, they are very different games. I merely feel that at least similar kinds of FFR trading rules and restrictions could be implemented into the TLOPO trading system. Sorry if this post was long. I'm also not an expert about anything nor am I as hardcore of a looter as other people, this is all just what I think could be done for better trading. Please feel free to point out anything I may have missed or politely critique any of my suggestions :)

tl;dr I don't mind trading, here are some suggestions to make it a little better:
- Legendaries are definitely not tradeable.
- Code items are not tradeable.
- There is a limit on how much gold and/or mats can be traded at a time.
- There are quest requirements for certain items or sets of items.
- Quest items/items required for quests are not tradeable.
- Clothing is tradeable.

- Anti-scam/anti-exploit measures are in place.
 
I would love to see trading come to TLOPO. To be honest, it might draw back some players that have moved on to other games. I do not play TLOPO, nor did play POTCO, for looting reasons. In POTCO I was proud of what I 'looted', but I never spent hours/days/weeks looting. That should not be the only reason this game is here for us to play. I do not think the name of this game is 'The Looters of Pirates Online', is it? I know that is going to draw criticism, but both sides need to be looked at, and hopefully a happy medium will be attained.
:piratetreasure:
 
I was proud of what I 'looted'
That right there wouldn't be a thing if trading Legendaries was added. Lets say for example they do and someone trades they couldn't say I looted this because they traded it which really is something to be proud of its just they got said weapon from a friend or guildie. In my open if you don't put in the work to loot it you shouldn't be able to have it.

Only trading I do feel is right is:
Gold
Ship Mats
and Possibly clothing
Weapons in my open if you want something go loot for it!
 
Trading seems like a cool idea with the following acceptation: NO TRADING LEGENDARIES. I am a player who is active for 8 to 14 hours a day (when I am not busy). The main purpose of me continuing to come online is the joy of going to a boss (or gold room) and putting in countless hours looking for legendaries. It's a really fun experience and I would like to continue to play for that same reason. The idea of allowing the trade of legendaries will lead to the outcome of me quitting the game and I can definitely assure I am not the only one. It would be a shame to see people quit... Greed and Glory, a fantastic guild that I am proud to say I am part of, with activity MINIMUM up to 20 people a day, populated with some of the biggest names in the game, and a reputation of AT LEAST one of our members receiving a legendary that day. My guild mates are amazing people and it would be sad to see most of these guys quit over something like this. The guild is alive and running for one main reason: looting and we freaking love it. We grind together, we congratulate one another when one of us reaches the top of the mountain every time, we cry together when we find out we got another silver freeze or el patron XD. The trading of legendaries will lead to the outcome of effecting a huge community. As long as this does not happen, I am all for trading. Thanks for taking the time to read this, much love!
Then quit, I honestly cannot believe someone would leave this game because we can trade legendaries. You can STILL spend as much time as you want looting for legendaries and still feel the satisfaction when you finally loot legendaries, you're basically selfish for not wanting legendaries to be traded just because of the fact that you spent hours looting legendaries and want everyone else to do the same.
 
That right there wouldn't be a thing if trading Legendaries was added. Lets say for example they do and someone trades they couldn't say I looted this because they traded it which really is something to be proud of its just they got said weapon from a friend or guildie. In my open if you don't put in the work to loot it you shouldn't be able to have it.

Only trading I do feel is right is:
Gold
Ship Mats
and Possibly clothing
Weapons in my open if you want something go loot for it!
You can go loot for it and I'll trade one of my el patrons for something else.
 
You can debate if trading should be implemented or not but it will be happening. We are mainly looking for feedback on how trading should take shape, not whether it should be in the game or not.

These are some of the ideas the team has discussed in the past:
1. Eye for an eye- you can only trade a legendary in exchange for another legendary item.
2. Legendaries won't be tradeable.
3. To trade for a cursed item, you must have completed the Raven's Cove Story Quest.
4. Quest items are off limits.
5. You can disable trading on your account page to avoid getting spammed with requests.

Let us know what you think of these and please send any suggestions you have!

Remember, trading will be heavily tested on a public testing server (that many players will have access to) prior to being implemented on the public server.

After reading your post, I understand that the changes will in fact be going through, but now that I've had a chance to read what some of the ideas the team has discussed, I can better share what I feel and how I personally think this should be worked moving forward. I'll start with quest items.

Quest Items should be tradable because the system will have too hard of a time differentiating what would be a quest item and what wouldn't be, making it difficult for players to trade with each other something that could be used for just every day use just because it has ties to a quest. However, a way around this is to mark items that are traded so that they will not count towards a quest and people can be able to use the items that they receive normally besides the questing aspect.

Disabling Trading on your own pirate is good for those who would rather not receive any trade requests because honestly, no one likes being spammed with those kinds of requests, you could receive a hundred a day if that weren't the case. But I've noticed that quite a few people have come up with the statement of trading items (even Legendaries) to your own account's pirates wouldn't be an issue because "(Player) specifically put the hours in to receive Legendaries and other good items". Personally, I like the thought of this but it could use some tweaking, like (Pirate must make it to * [Skill] Level before receiving items from any class {Sword, Gun, Voodoo Doll, etc.}) And that just brings me to my next point.

(Raven's Cove Quest) To trade for a cursed item. I do like this idea, as this quest only becomes available at Level 30, which most pirates at that point have nearly maxed or maxed a certain skill. When I think about this idea, my opinion is that lower level players should only be able to trade lower level items, and that higher level players should be able to trade whatever they want, similar to an unlock system (with the exception of Cursed Famed and Legendaries). Famed and Legendaries should only be tradable between other Famed or other Legendaries of EQUAL value, so that no one is losing out, possibly creating a new class system for legendaries that only certain legendaries can be traded for certain legendaries (similar to a bronze, silver, gold) system based on power, rarity, and usability of the item.

Anyone can feel free to comment and tweak upon what I stated, as this is an open discussion and I'd love to read more about what other Pirates believe should be changed or tested upon, as even though many of us have argued on this post, we're all still working to keep this game alive whether as creators, testers, or players. Don't hesitate to put up new suggestions for the system, that's what the forum is about!
 
Then quit, I honestly cannot believe someone would leave this game because we can trade legendaries. You can STILL spend as much time as you want looting for legendaries and still feel the satisfaction when you finally loot legendaries, you're basically selfish for not wanting legendaries to be traded just because of the fact that you spent hours looting legendaries and want everyone else to do the same.
There are so many level 50's, possibly hundreds, that plans and spends their time looting for Legendaries. Its not selfish that we don't want other people getting legendaries without even trying, its just not fair. People will brag about having legendaries when they haven't even tried putting effort and making others upset, and yes, people like that actually exist. After you max out your level and complete all the missions, all you could do is either loot or participate in events, but everyone would rather loot because looting is actually fun. If you don't spend hours, days, even weeks searching for legendaries, you should not get one easily from trading. I said in my post yesterday that Legendaries and Famed should not be traded. However, if you want to trade it with your alts then I guess that's fine since the same person went through that process. But if Legendaries legit become tradeable, I'm either going to be on the game less or just quit, because like I said, its not fair.
 
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