Discussion Revert the Copperhead Broadside Nerf - Patch v1.21.2

[Kate Goldwalker]

TY Reaper for stating things so very well and for the record I was and still am Cutthroat Mc Rage from POTCO Called and Considered Legendary and Epic in POTCO SvS by many and I was skipper of The Copperhead Floating Fortress War Frigate know as the Cutthroat King and I was also on POTCO from the second it went online to the very last second they shut the servers down if that tells you anything and look at my start date here Lil Kate April 10th, 2011 as for anything else I believe TheReaper said it all quite perfectly TY. OH I was never ever sunk 1 on 1 in POTCO SvS weather sailing alone on my light sloop or my copperhead and that's no brag just fact. Only person that ever came close to taking me down was a mate named Sir Flying Bassplayer. Even the 2 mates that started this TLOPO I was told had heard of me never met me on POTCO but had heard of me and my SvS and all-around sailing and cannon skills. Bet your sorry ya asked now aren't ya as I have probably forgotten more people from POTCO than you ever knew Kate. My Facebook page has 999 current ex-POTCO players and some nowhere playing on TLOPO. My friend's list it still slowly grows how many you have on yours? Anyway, ty once again Reaper for saying/explaning it all so well to her. I also have done a lot of Alpha and Closed Beta testing for other games a few such as Word Of Warships, World of Tanks, Guns of Icarus, Sea Of Thieves, Naval Action, and a couple more no need to go on and build high end moded gaming computers for mates. I can go on but won't but I do tell you this my knowledge of games and gaming is vast. My first computer was a whole 35mhz and Windows 2.0 think that was back in 1987 maybe early 88 it was. WOWZERS HUH lol

Thank you for answering Q1 and part of Q2.

I would still like to know the answers to Q3, Q4 and Q5 to better help me understand YOUR side of this argument.

Q3: How does sinking and enemy ship, not hunters or SOTL, in one or two hits logical and exhibit ideal PvE gameplay?

Q4: Don’t you want more of a challenge when sailing and fighting enemy ships, or do you actually just want an easier and faster way to plunder on the ‘High Seas’?

Q5: Have you considered taking down actual notes on PvE sailing, comparing each combination of ship upgrades with each ship type, against each enemy ship type (i.e. damage dealt, damage taken, time it took to sink each enemy ship)?

Let me add another:

Q6: What do YOU remember the Copperhead being like in POTCO? As in, how many explosive rounds do you remember seeing fired from the broadsides when it was maxxed out?


I know that the developers did take the time to search YouTube for old footage from POTCO with people using the Copperhead to help them better understand why the TLOPO version was so aggressive and overpowered.

Bet your sorry ya asked now aren't ya as I have probably forgotten more people from POTCO than you ever knew Kate. My Facebook page has 999 current ex-POTCO players and some nowhere playing on TLOPO. My friend's list it still slowly grows how many you have on yours?

No, I'm not sorry I asked these questions. I truly do want to understand where you're coming from regarding this issue. There was really no reason to get rude here, trying to compare friend lists. I dont even have FB, dont like it. Personal reasons. But my in-game list does grow. Those friends that I've stayed in contact with from PTOCO days are the only ones I care about staying in touch with from then, save a few that I cannot find or those who have left the community, but that is what happens in life when people grow and change. Friends list size doesnt matter to me. Quality over quantity. I'd rather have friends I can trust vs a list full to win a popularity contest, but that's just me.

Side note: gonna age myself here... My first computer was an Apple IIe! Oh and I still have my Atari.

 

[Arr]

@Cutthroat Mc Rage,
Q3: How does sinking and enemy ship, not hunters or SOTL, in one or two hits logical and exhibit ideal PvE gameplay?

Q4: Don’t you want more of a challenge when sailing and fighting enemy ships, or do you actually just want an easier and faster way to plunder on the ‘High Seas’?

For your third question you can have a war sloop storm chaser and sink regular enemy ships with 4-5 thunderbolts and round shots and you don't even need 5 skill points on round shots, I'm not so sure about fury broadside damage but it might be similar amount (4-5 fury with round shots). I think it is ideal because those regular enemy ships are like land enemies (who aren't bosses) in which you kill/sink multiple in a matter of seconds because that's how players loot a lot in such a short time and if we talk about guns then they're also overpowered and can be nerfed because you can one-shot most of the regular enemies just like how you can one-shot most if not all regular enemy ships with copperhead.
I already answered your fourth question about how killing/sinking a lot of enemies and ships is the way players have been looting since potco and it is an ideal way of looting. I should also add that I believe most players don't want to waste more time than necessary when looting both on land and while sailing.

 

[Cutthroat Mc Rage]

With all due respect River, that's why they're categorised into different ships, Fortune is basically the Loot vacuum capable of manoeuvres and decent broadside damage, same goes for other ship upgrades.
And when you mentioned why should Copper have the best of both worlds, that's not really the case cuz there ain't 2 factors in sailing only you're part of the staff I believe you know it as well.
And I don't believe Copper has the best of both worlds, in my opinion Copper's a heavy duty ship, it's slow and deadly in terms of fire power but it can get caught in a Battle-Royale (Or other ships) broadsides easily because of it's movement speed and I don't think the community asking for a pure explosive broadside ship but I'd like to see the 15% chance of broadsides generally in copper's or a different implementation rather than the One shot explosive.

Kind regards.

-Reaper, The Souls Collector

I second all that ye stated Reaperr and well said it is indeed!!!

 

[Cutthroat Mc Rage]

For your third question you can have a war sloop storm chaser and sink regular enemy ships with 4-5 thunderbolts and round shots and you don't even need 5 skill points on round shots, I'm not so sure about fury broadside damage but it might be similar amount (4-5 fury with round shots). I think it is ideal because those regular enemy ships are like land enemies (who aren't bosses) in which you kill/sink multiple in a matter of seconds because that's how players loot a lot in such a short time and if we talk about guns then they're also overpowered and can be nerfed because you can one-shot most of the regular enemies just like how you can one-shot most if not all regular enemy ships with copperhead.
I already answered your fourth question about how killing/sinking a lot of enemies and ships is the way players have been looting since potco and it is an ideal way of looting. I should also add that I believe most players don't want to waste more time than necessary when looting both on land and while sailing.

Good Job Mate ye speak the truth

 

[Cutthroat Mc Rage]

Thank you for answering Q1 and part of Q2.

I would still like to know the answers to Q3, Q4 and Q5 to better help me understand YOUR side of this argument.




Let me add another:

Q6: What do YOU remember the Copperhead being like in POTCO? As in, how many explosive rounds do you remember seeing fired from the broadsides when it was maxxed out?


I know that the developers did take the time to search YouTube for old footage from POTCO with people using the Copperhead to help them better understand why the TLOPO version was so aggressive and overpowered.



No, I'm not sorry I asked these questions. I truly do want to understand where you're coming from regarding this issue. There was really no reason to get rude here, trying to compare friend lists. I dont even have FB, dont like it. Personal reasons. But my in-game list does grow. Those friends that I've stayed in contact with from PTOCO days are the only ones I care about staying in touch with from then, save a few that I cannot find or those who have left the community, but that is what happens in life when people grow and change. Friends list size doesnt matter to me. Quality over quantity. I'd rather have friends I can trust vs a list full to win a popularity contest, but that's just me.

Side note: gonna age myself here... My first computer was an Apple IIe! Oh and I still have my Atari.

Well yep it happens in life sometimes I guess for some. I've been blessed tho as I still have friends that I grew up with and still hang out with from when I was 6 years old let alone others from high school days. I detect that your still a wee bit hostile towards me Kate with that last 3 sentences as what you stated the way you stated it is meant to insult me. You have no idea how at the time popular I was. I never had to win a popularity contest Kate as I was popular from helping mates the first day of the game on and my sailing/cannon and other skills and never tried to be it just became that way for me it just seemed to have fallen in my lap whether I liked it or not and my friend list on TLOPO is full with good mates most from POTCO days. Few mates from here that I never knew from POTCO or here before on it as well. I had a talking Apple II I do not even count that as a computer lol I installed a talking module in it like blind folk would use in theirs. Now 3/4 of them on me Facebook I knew on POTCO and were good friends with them and could trust all of them anytime. You wouldn't be on my list unless you could be trusted as my page is set to private so I have to personally invite or ok you or you will not be on the list of friends and trust me quite a few did not make it to the list and others asking to be on it still do fail from time to time. Rather have 1 good mate as a friend on my Facebook list than 1,000 fake ones. Just so happens I got alot of good friends rofl. The rest on me Facebook the last 1/4 knew of me and a few didn't know me but their friends did and vouched for them to me and of me to them as well lol. My POTCO guild (I was the GM) had at one time held 400 members and had others waiting to fill any voids if one were to ever happen lol OH and on the broadsides, the max I ever have seen High Explosive wise come out of my Copperhead Max Out War Frigate in POTCO days at one time I believe was only 3 with all the rest, of course, being round shot and I asked a few others that I know and had them in POTCO also and were personal friends of mine there and still are to this very day and they all said the same of there Copperhead Maxed War Frigates. Now Kate as for any other questions as far as I am concerned you might re-read what TheReapearr has said in all of his statements. It says it all just perfectly spot-on as far as I'm concerned. Toodles and have a good one

 

[Cutthroat Mc Rage]

There’s always that extreme group in a community and I always expect it, The extreme doesn’t act rational however they are still a sharing a value able opinion, and they may not express it well because they can’t take the changes easier than others, some of them can be insulting or rude but nevertheless it assures that there’s an issue.

I can write as many replies as I want trying to discuss and detail what ever it is, I’m not sure if this decision of Copperhead nerf was taken because of SvS but please don’t justify it to make Sailing challenging cuz in a mmo game we’re trying to be the top of the line and you work towards it, it’s not like we’re getting to that point easily and fast, for example we have a gun with Crit 3 and 85 dmg (Known as Mercer’s Pistol), when that thing Crits regardless of using a potion it deals an insane amount of dmg and if you want to put it in a balance perspective, that is not regulated in that field, and this is an example of extreme damage in game I’m not comparing it to anything.

Long story short, I am not satisfied with the recent Copperhead nerf and I’d like to see a different implementation.

Have a good one y’all.

- Reaper, The Souls Collector

I totally agree with you Reaperr

 

[Truecrash]

I have to point this out Again I have played POTCO as well as a founder till the last day and I remember very clearly that POTCO’s Copper was way more powerful than what we have on TLOPO.

I am speaking for myself but as I said before the majority of player base are not satisfied with the current state of Copperhead, and if you say not everyone has a right to discuss their opinions for an argument/debate on the forums, then what’s the point of having a poll and trying to listen?

And maybe the arguement/topic is heated because there’s an issue?

For what it's worth, we compared the current damage our Copperhead deals to videos of Copperhead from POTCO. That's part of how we were able to confirm they deal roughly the same damage now. The actual amount of rounds fired is irrelevant, as our explosive rounds are stronger as a whole.

For those saying it's different from POTCO, we're a little confused, as the team (as well as community members) have confirmed numerous times that it's roughly the same now in terms of raw damage.

We're not going to undo the nerf, because doing so would make Copperhead in TLOPO stronger than Copperhead in POTCO by a large margin. Pre-nerf TLOPO Copperhead was able to kill the strongest hunters in the game in just 1-2 broadsides, for reference. Bringing such a thing back would be unhealthy for the game.

I am speaking for myself but as I said before the majority of player base are not satisfied with the current state of Copperhead, and if you say not everyone has a right to discuss their opinions for an argument/debate on the forums, then what’s the point of having a poll and trying to listen?

A majority of the player base is satisfied with the current state of Copperhead. It's important to remember we can see a lot more than what the average player might, thanks to both the Feedback System and chat logs.

Also, for what it's worth, the poll isn't ours. Charles is not part of the TLOPO Crew.

 

[TheReaperr]

A majority of the player base is satisfied with the current state of Copperhead. It's important to remember we can see a lot more than what the average player might, thanks to both the Feedback System and chat logs.

Also, for what it's worth, the poll isn't ours. Charles is not part of the TLOPO Crew.

The poll doesn't have to belong to a specific individual or group in this situation if there's a valuable community behind, it has it's own voice and from what I see in this thread, the community thinks otherwise, Also the players I've met so far (In game) didn't really appreciate the nowadays Copperhead situation and I don't have the admins rights to see what's happening on the feedback system nor chat logs yet hence what I say is based on what I've seen and experienced so far.

I'm done debating this matter, I've said what I think and what I believe in, now it's up to the Tlopo Crew to see it through and what the other players think about it.

 

[Arr]

For what it's worth, we compared the current damage our Copperhead deals to videos of Copperhead from POTCO. That's part of how we were able to confirm they deal roughly the same damage now. The actual amount of rounds fired is irrelevant, as our explosive rounds are stronger as a whole.

For those saying it's different from POTCO, we're a little confused, as the team (as well as community members) have confirmed numerous times that it's roughly the same now in terms of raw damage.

We're not going to undo the nerf, because doing so would make Copperhead in TLOPO stronger than Copperhead in POTCO by a large margin. Pre-nerf TLOPO Copperhead was able to kill the strongest hunters in the game in just 1-2 broadsides, for reference. Bringing such a thing back would be unhealthy for the game.



A majority of the player base is satisfied with the current state of Copperhead. It's important to remember we can see a lot more than what the average player might, thanks to both the Feedback System and chat logs.

Also, for what it's worth, the poll isn't ours. Charles is not part of the TLOPO Crew.

Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't it be better to have the same explosives damage that potco had or even decrease the explosives damage instead of limiting explosives per broadside round?

 

[Mark Scurvyfox]

We might as well allow the game to progress with a sequence of releases rather than nitpick about game decisions that took place more than half a year ago. Personally, I wonder what good this revert would bring to players that are experiencing disconnects upon porting after a full material/loot run or other sailing-related issues. As if they don't have bigger issues to worry about right now.
If TLOPO does not wish to revert/amend the update right now it doesn't mean you haven't been heard. Balancing (the_game) in itself is an issue that can create monstrous problems without the necessary precautions (checks) and discussion. That being said, Sailing activities in-game are far from being finalized (Ship Customization that was released on POTCO seems inadequate if we consider their own concept art as an example).

Still, to imply that TLOPO purposefully obsoleted Copperhead is an understatement to their credibility when they have literally made many attempts to balance the game by supplying updates (sometimes in tandem to fix the monstrous problems caused by them) to escalate Sailing, SVS, you name it. That was made possible by communicating back and forth with the community.

Oh, and polls cannot accurately represent a majority vote but rather majority consensus at best. Remember that not everyone on this community is part of the forums and not everyone takes part in this thread discussion (I know I haven't until it resurfaced). And finally, just because you have the right to vote for apples over oranges, I'm only right to assume your preference, not what made you vote for or against them.

FYI/FWIW, I'm not a TLOPO developer.

 

[Truecrash]

Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't it be better to have the same explosives damage that potco had or even decrease the explosives damage instead of limiting explosives per broadside round?

This isn't as easy as it sounds. Changing explosive damage would impact every aspect of the game -- NPCs (such as Corsair and Juggernaut), player cannons, and broadsides. We're happy with how explosives are themselves, and opted to just limit the Copperhead's max broadsides to equal it out to POTCO's Copperhead damage instead.

If we figure out a way to specifically tweak the broadside damage for explosive in the future without impacting anything else, we may revisit the change -- but the overall damage will remain the same as it is now regardless.

 

[Arr]

This isn't as easy as it sounds. Changing explosive damage would impact every aspect of the game -- NPCs (such as Corsair and Juggernaut), player cannons, and broadsides. We're happy with how explosives are themselves, and opted to just limit the Copperhead's max broadsides to equal it out to POTCO's Copperhead damage instead.

If we figure out a way to specifically tweak the broadside damage for explosive in the future without impacting anything else, we may revisit the change -- but the overall damage will remain the same as it is now regardless.

I just think doing that much damage with explosives regardless of a player's cannon damage or corsair's and juggernaut's damage is a bit too much but I guess since they're explosives they have to do thousands of more damage than any other cannon ammo type, speaking of those lethal corsair and juggernaut ships do they also get one explosives per broadside round or are they still as deadly as the copperhead was?

 

[Truecrash]

I just think doing that much damage with explosives regardless of a player's cannon damage or corsair's and juggernaut's damage is a bit too much but I guess since they're explosives they have to do thousands of more damage than any other cannon ammo type, speaking of those lethal corsair and juggernaut ships do they also get one explosives per broadside round or are they still as deadly as the copperhead was?

It's important to remember that explosives for cannons have a fairly long cooldown to balance the high amount of damage they deal, and can only be fired once before going on cooldown.

NPCs weren't touched in this change. We're happy with the damage they deal at the moment.

 

[Anthony Longshot]

So what about the armor? I mean It's practically paper mache to what it used to be, and that is even with take cover which is a 75% buff.

 

[Truecrash]

So what about the armor? I mean It's practically paper mache to what it used to be, and that is even with take cover which is a 75% buff.

We didn't make any changes to armor. As far as we're aware, it's the same as POTCO.

 

[Anthony Longshot]

It really doesn't feel like it at all, it feels like it used to take much more of a beating. Hence the term Disney gave it. (Floating Fortress)

 

[Arr]

It's important to remember that explosives for cannons have a fairly long cooldown to balance the high amount of damage they deal, and can only be fired once before going on cooldown.

NPCs weren't touched in this change. We're happy with the damage they deal at the moment.

Broadsides also have a cooldown but that doesn't mean that they have to do so much damage.

 

[squintz]

I wouldn’t say he’s arguing Kate, it’s more of expressing his opinion and thoughts which he raised some valid points, and instead of 20 questioning a player why don’t you as a part of staff consider his opinion instead of criticizing it?
At this point the sum of Buffing Copper and Reverting is more than 50% which this means the majority of players aren’t happy with the current state of Copperhead hence that’s why we’re complaining about it.
This is coming from a guy who played POTCO to the very last day it shutted down.

Cheers

Why can't the copper be nerfed ONLY for svs and svp but not PVE at all? Is that not possible. Wouldn't it be fair to give svs, svp what they wanted and leave pve alone. Whatever they do to the pvp realm wouldn't bother me in the least. I see this like if they nerfed the levi because pvp'rs complained it was too strong one on one. Don't nerf something against everyone if at all possible not to do that.

 

[Cutthroat Mc Rage]

It's important to remember that explosives for cannons have a fairly long cooldown to balance the high amount of damage they deal, and can only be fired once before going on cooldown.

NPCs weren't touched in this change. We're happy with the damage they deal at the moment.

I just think doing that much damage with explosives regardless of a player's cannon damage or corsair's and juggernaut's damage is a bit too much but I guess since they're explosives they have to do thousands of more damage than any other cannon ammo type, speaking of those lethal corsair and juggernaut ships do they also get one explosives per broadside round or are they still as deadly as the copperhead was?

there the same poor game balancing now isnt it and look at some of the weapons same wheres that balancing man face it copperhead got wacked only because of a few crying minority SvS people is it no doubt.

 

[Arr]

there the same poor game balancing now isnt it and look at some of the weapons same wheres that balancing man face it copperhead got wacked only because of a few crying minority SvS people is it no doubt.

Well truecrash did say that pre-nerf copperhead took down a hunter ship with only 1-2 broadsides and unless truecrash was exaggerating that seems really overpowered. Also I'm sure the developers aren't done nerfing things like weapons.