Beggar
Pirate Master
Bit intense language for something like this. Even if the newer copperhead has a couple small flaws i'm not really seeing how it's 'ruining' the game or the ship.
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Discussion Revert the Copperhead Broadside Nerf - Patch v1.21.2
- Thread starter Charles Warmonk
- Start date
- Status
Boots/Darkness
Greeter
I'm a bit late to this thread just stating my opinion on it. The way copperhead is now it's all dependent on your skill points and how good of a sailor you are. I have no issues sailing with a copper the way I used too besides when it comes to warships. Do I think it should've been merged as much as it was? No not in the slightest, but how it used to be nearly 1 shotting SOTL was too overpowered in my opinion. However now that the speed bug wad fixed it makes this kinda worse since copperhead barely has speed as it was now being reduced even more.. Not a fan but I'll get over it sooner or later.
AL Plankwalker
Dockworker
Afternoon me hearties,
The Copperhead should have never been nerfed. It stinks now.
☠ AL Plankwalker ☠
The Copperhead should have never been nerfed. It stinks now.
☠ AL Plankwalker ☠
Bettieheartsmythe
Sea Legs
How is the opposition to you nerfing the Copperhead 'misinformed' when we are SEEING the effects of your ...handiwork(?) firsthand?
If in fact the Copperhead War Frigate was so far removed from the Copperhead War Frigate in POTCO, then why not go through each and every ship arrangement and change those ships so that they are 'closer' to what they were in the original POTCO?
Picking one ship out of the fleet to screw with is just doing your best to pick winners and losers based on how you think gameplay should happen instead of how it really happens.
Be fair. Make the rest of the ships much closer to how they were in POTCO. If, in fact, the Copperhead was super op and you HAD to nerf it to make it closer to what it was originally, then surely the other ships are just as off the mark and need the same tweaking.
If in fact the Copperhead War Frigate was so far removed from the Copperhead War Frigate in POTCO, then why not go through each and every ship arrangement and change those ships so that they are 'closer' to what they were in the original POTCO?
Picking one ship out of the fleet to screw with is just doing your best to pick winners and losers based on how you think gameplay should happen instead of how it really happens.
Be fair. Make the rest of the ships much closer to how they were in POTCO. If, in fact, the Copperhead was super op and you HAD to nerf it to make it closer to what it was originally, then surely the other ships are just as off the mark and need the same tweaking.
Truecrash
Honorable Pirate
Copperhead was the only ship that was drastically different from how it was in POTCO. At the moment, all ships should be as close as we can get them to their original POTCO version in terms of damage and usability.
Cutthroat Mc Rage
Swashbuckler
TY Charles Warmonk you have been hitting the nail right on target mate and you can speak for me (im part of the community) anytime on this matter as they ruined the Copperhead bottom line plain and simple fact indeed.
River
Wanted Pirate
The fact that an EITC Corsair can one hit any stock warship (learned that the hard way), goes to show how deadly Explosives are. A warship with top-of-the-line armor that had the potential to fire a full broadside of Explosives is not really fair, battle wise. Why should Copperhead get the best of both worlds (damage and armor) when there are other upgrades to consider like Fortune Hunter and Firestorm? I'm very happy for the nerf.
(Also, in my personal opinion, Fortune Hunter competes with Copperhead with how expensive the upgrades are.)
(Also, in my personal opinion, Fortune Hunter competes with Copperhead with how expensive the upgrades are.)
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TheReaperr
Buccaneer
With all due respect River, that's why they're categorised into different ships, Fortune is basically the Loot vacuum capable of manoeuvres and decent broadside damage, same goes for other ship upgrades.
And when you mentioned why should Copper have the best of both worlds, that's not really the case cuz there ain't 2 factors in sailing only you're part of the staff I believe you know it as well.
And I don't believe Copper has the best of both worlds, in my opinion Copper's a heavy duty ship, it's slow and deadly in terms of fire power but it can get caught in a Battle-Royale (Or other ships) broadsides easily because of it's movement speed and I don't think the community asking for a pure explosive broadside ship but I'd like to see the 15% chance of broadsides generally in copper's or a different implementation rather than the One shot explosive.
Kind regards.
-Reaper, The Souls Collector
The Crew
TLOPO Staff
Ahoy everyone,
We appreciate everyone's feedback here on the Copperhead nerf. Constructive feedback is extremely helpful in development and is always valued.
I would like to shed some more light on the team's internal thought process behind the balancing changes, and why the changes are paramount to the game's future.
Right now, we are in the middle of a pivotal moment in our project's history; almost all existing POTCO content has finally been re-implemented back into The Legend of Pirates Online. Over the past two years, we have been reviewing existing areas of the game and identifying what it is that we are going to implement next. One of the largest issues we have had, however, was that the core aspects of the game were incredibly unbalanced.
When we tried to sit down and think about a new feature we could implement, we ended up getting blocked because it would have created some crazy unbalanced mess. We were tunneled into what kind of new content we could implement, and this led us to ultimately decide to just fix the core problem outright and rebalance the game.
Previously, upgrades did not make any sense; many weapons were absurdly more powerful than others, with entire weapon types often being completely worthless because of overpowered alternatives; additionally, skills + damage calculation were in a poor state, with most of the information being told to the player on the skills page not even being accurate to what you were actually getting. By establishing balance in the game with ship upgrades, weapons, skills, etc, we have created a boilerplate to grow out into new expansions.
Additionally, it is worth noting that there were some bugs exclusive to our game that bugged Copperhead in particular. TLOPO's Copperhead prior to the nerf was not the way POTCO's Copperhead was. TLOPO's was OP from the start and was not representative to how POTCO had it. Our nerf returned Copperhead back to a similar state it was in POTCO.
We have put extremely careful consideration into the balancing changes we have made, and while we understand the frustration with an upgrade not being as powerful anymore, we need to think about the larger picture here and where the game is going next.
When we are working on a balancing change, we have discussion for them held in channels accessible to all TLOPO Staff. Ideas are discussed in detail and large quantities of feedback are provided to us. We have several extremely vocal staff members on both sides of the Copperhead argument - in favor and against. We include every voice on our team to contribute to these discussions so we ensure that we are balancing the game with a fair representation of the community, every player should and does have a voice representing them.
Remember, we are a fan-made remake; we are community members just like you. We play the game every day, we interact with the community as much as we can, and most of all: we stay grounded in our roots. We get impacted by the nerfs just as much as everyone else does, but we need to remember that it's building up for what's coming next.
To further put the balancing into context, we have several unannounced major expansions in the pipeline that build upon the game's original methods of upgradability. We have been striving to balance the game to ensure that every upgrade, weapon, and skill has a purpose; and doing this we are also implicitly making these items, upgrades, and skills more desirable and engaging. Our primary goal is to make the game more entertaining and engaging; and in game design, games that have overpowered weapons often become boring faster than those that don't.
Every change we make is influenced by where we're going next. At this time, we do not wish to comment about the upcoming content because it is not yet finalized and would be premature to discuss it, but hopefully this can help put the controversy with these balancing changes to rest.
Because of this, it is unlikely that further major modifications will be made to the Copperhead upgrade. We are happy where it is for a reason, and the above should help put it in better context.
"The future depends on what we do in the present." ― Gandhi
We appreciate everyone's feedback here on the Copperhead nerf. Constructive feedback is extremely helpful in development and is always valued.
I would like to shed some more light on the team's internal thought process behind the balancing changes, and why the changes are paramount to the game's future.
Right now, we are in the middle of a pivotal moment in our project's history; almost all existing POTCO content has finally been re-implemented back into The Legend of Pirates Online. Over the past two years, we have been reviewing existing areas of the game and identifying what it is that we are going to implement next. One of the largest issues we have had, however, was that the core aspects of the game were incredibly unbalanced.
When we tried to sit down and think about a new feature we could implement, we ended up getting blocked because it would have created some crazy unbalanced mess. We were tunneled into what kind of new content we could implement, and this led us to ultimately decide to just fix the core problem outright and rebalance the game.
Previously, upgrades did not make any sense; many weapons were absurdly more powerful than others, with entire weapon types often being completely worthless because of overpowered alternatives; additionally, skills + damage calculation were in a poor state, with most of the information being told to the player on the skills page not even being accurate to what you were actually getting. By establishing balance in the game with ship upgrades, weapons, skills, etc, we have created a boilerplate to grow out into new expansions.
Additionally, it is worth noting that there were some bugs exclusive to our game that bugged Copperhead in particular. TLOPO's Copperhead prior to the nerf was not the way POTCO's Copperhead was. TLOPO's was OP from the start and was not representative to how POTCO had it. Our nerf returned Copperhead back to a similar state it was in POTCO.
We have put extremely careful consideration into the balancing changes we have made, and while we understand the frustration with an upgrade not being as powerful anymore, we need to think about the larger picture here and where the game is going next.
When we are working on a balancing change, we have discussion for them held in channels accessible to all TLOPO Staff. Ideas are discussed in detail and large quantities of feedback are provided to us. We have several extremely vocal staff members on both sides of the Copperhead argument - in favor and against. We include every voice on our team to contribute to these discussions so we ensure that we are balancing the game with a fair representation of the community, every player should and does have a voice representing them.
Remember, we are a fan-made remake; we are community members just like you. We play the game every day, we interact with the community as much as we can, and most of all: we stay grounded in our roots. We get impacted by the nerfs just as much as everyone else does, but we need to remember that it's building up for what's coming next.
To further put the balancing into context, we have several unannounced major expansions in the pipeline that build upon the game's original methods of upgradability. We have been striving to balance the game to ensure that every upgrade, weapon, and skill has a purpose; and doing this we are also implicitly making these items, upgrades, and skills more desirable and engaging. Our primary goal is to make the game more entertaining and engaging; and in game design, games that have overpowered weapons often become boring faster than those that don't.
Every change we make is influenced by where we're going next. At this time, we do not wish to comment about the upcoming content because it is not yet finalized and would be premature to discuss it, but hopefully this can help put the controversy with these balancing changes to rest.
Because of this, it is unlikely that further major modifications will be made to the Copperhead upgrade. We are happy where it is for a reason, and the above should help put it in better context.
"The future depends on what we do in the present." ― Gandhi
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Cutthroat Mc Rage
Swashbuckler
WOW, all that sounds really great hope its a few new islands and such now that that's out of the way Please revert the Copperhead Back UnNerf It !!!!
Thank You 
I ran a copperhead for years on POTCO in SvS as well as mat runs to help all that needed it Oh and remember I said the Copperhead in SvS, as well as mat runs for all who needed materials and gold and now do here as well but the changes you made, were strictly for SvS purposes no more no less and that is wrong in more than one way, oh and yes back to I sailed one ... This now Copperhead is no way better than the Copperhead on POTCO was so please don't try to fib to convince some mates that want it back they want it back for a reason because this copperhead is not the POTCO copperhead at all no way a Brig Stormchaser should be equal to a brig Copperhead mate that's like saying to balance the game we now have made the Legendary World Eater Sword equal to the Rare Vice-Admiral sword sorry games were never meant to be balanced/equal as every game that got so-called balanced went down as it became no real challenge to it heck life is not equal lol so please ya want a kids game balance say Toon Town but this is a PIRATE Game with mostly Adults playing it no one but the lazy expect it to be balanced and easy this game is Pirate and Pirate ya fight loot plunder and talk about a op ship look at ship of the line hunters oh my we sink it do we not and no copperhead I ever sailed could take one of them down in a broadside lol but we still have those why are they not balanced to lets nerf em i say there way to hard to sink for a mat run. See what I'm saying no probably not maybe because you just do not want to. Oh, and Gandhi was totally right as you see here You nerfed the copperhead in the past pretty much without anyone knowing and totally for only crying SvS players which are the minority on the game as the majority of players are not were just regular good old Pirates sailing and having fun on mat runs and such who loved the way our Copperheads were and never wanted them changed. Yep Gandhi was totally right ya did this mainly on the slide weather most wanted it or not favoring the few that play SvS not the rest of us and now it's coming back in the present to bite ya in the buttocks. More are coming to vote to restore it back then we will see how much you really care about your players and the majority of players are not SvS players so yes look at the big picture and just REVERT The Copperhead Broadside Nerf Patch Back Please. We like it the way it was because now it stinks and anyone that says it did not ever know what one was like before or here is an SvS player and a lazy one at that as they can be sunk in SvS with a lil teamwork or crew or another copperhead whatever we work hard to pay for a copperhead and want what we pay for not get ripped off like we are getting now after all that long hard hours days weeks to afford to finally get a level 6 copperhead only to have you nerf it without our say so for SvS people not right at all and don't even offer a price change as a double slap to all our faces and only 1 HE maybe on the broadsides that really stinks not right at all. Revert the patch!!!! TY
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Roger-Daniel
Pirate Lord
you could've fooled me
@Cutthroat Mc Rage,
Q1: When did you play POTCO? NOT TLOPO, POTCO.
Q2: Where were you MONTHS ago when this correction in the Copperhead balancing took place?
Q3: How does sinking and enemy ship, not hunters or SOTL, in one or two hits logical and exhibit ideal PvE gameplay?
Q4: Don’t you want more of a challenge when sailing and fighting enemy ships, or do you actually just want an easier and faster way to plunder on the ‘High Seas’?
Q5: Have you considered taking down actual notes on PvE sailing, comparing each combination of ship upgrades with each ship type, against each enemy ship type (i.e. damage dealt, damage taken, time it took to sink each enemy ship)?
I am sincerely trying to understand your reasoning for your argument because I have yet to see how you have come to your conclusions.
Thanks!
Q1: When did you play POTCO? NOT TLOPO, POTCO.
Q2: Where were you MONTHS ago when this correction in the Copperhead balancing took place?
Q3: How does sinking and enemy ship, not hunters or SOTL, in one or two hits logical and exhibit ideal PvE gameplay?
Q4: Don’t you want more of a challenge when sailing and fighting enemy ships, or do you actually just want an easier and faster way to plunder on the ‘High Seas’?
Q5: Have you considered taking down actual notes on PvE sailing, comparing each combination of ship upgrades with each ship type, against each enemy ship type (i.e. damage dealt, damage taken, time it took to sink each enemy ship)?
I am sincerely trying to understand your reasoning for your argument because I have yet to see how you have come to your conclusions.
Thanks!
TheReaperr
Buccaneer
I wouldn’t say he’s arguing Kate, it’s more of expressing his opinion and thoughts which he raised some valid points, and instead of 20 questioning a player why don’t you as a part of staff consider his opinion instead of criticizing it?
At this point the sum of Buffing Copper and Reverting is more than 50% which this means the majority of players aren’t happy with the current state of Copperhead hence that’s why we’re complaining about it.
This is coming from a guy who played POTCO to the very last day it shutted down.
Cheers
Cutthroat Mc Rage
Swashbuckler
AWESOME Reaper your right on target Brother. Well stated well said. Heck, mate, they slide this under all-our noses then do not even try to lower the cost at all as well. Yep, 15% from the broadsides is good. The way it is now with just 1 shot high explosive is trash for all that work and cost and it is the same as a storm chaser no wait the storm is faster not even as good as a storm chaser don't let em fool ya Bro its all the staff SvS players here saying the buff is good NOT regular mates that sail the game they just taking the minority of players (SvS) side, not the majority side that is us that mite enjoy a famous Legendary and cut above all other ships COPPERHEAD LINE and even them that might not have one now should have the freedom to have an UN-NERFED COPPERHEAD in the future if they choose to have one so they can feel the difference and know then why they worked so hard and paid so much for it. They were awesome on Material runs and Right now with the nerf its more like work hard pay much get it up to level 6 sail her out see an enemy ship to plunder fire the broadsides and all it does is fart most the time. -_- So Sad Indeed !
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You misunderstood me. I'm not meaning argument as in arguing with someone/heated discussion, though this has been a heated discussion since the changes were made... I meant argument, as in debate, as in:
a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
I am not criticizing his 'argument' or 'opinion' if you prefer that word. I am wanting to understand why he has said argument/opinion. Everyone who is against it argues/debates that the reason they want it back is because it does far less damage. But what I dont understand is the "WHY" behind those with this argument/opinion wants a ship that can do that much damage.
Do I like the change? Yes. Why? Because I feel it's more like it was from POTCO. I also believe that having a ship that far out does any enemy ship (save the SOTL or hunters) is illogical and does not make the game play 'fair' or 'balanced' in PvE.
I played POTCO since pretty much the beginning. Started in Feb 2008. I remember the days when you could only sail for so long. I remember when POTCO brought in ship customization. I remember the Copperheads being a mighty upgrade but not overpowered so that they sink a ship in one or two hits.
I do think everyone has a right to an opinion/argument to debate them/discuss them on this forums.
Also, I am not a developer. I do not control what happens in game or with the code.
The thing is, I keep hearing (seeing) the same things posted over and over again without a complete explanation as to WHY people want it reverted other than 'it doesnt do as much damage'. But WHY do you need a ship that sinks another before you can blink an eye?
TheReaperr
Buccaneer
I have to point this out Again I have played POTCO as well as a founder till the last day and I remember very clearly that POTCO’s Copper was way more powerful than what we have on TLOPO.
I am speaking for myself but as I said before the majority of player base are not satisfied with the current state of Copperhead, and if you say not everyone has a right to discuss their opinions for an argument/debate on the forums, then what’s the point of having a poll and trying to listen?
And maybe the arguement/topic is heated because there’s an issue?
Unfortunately the argument tends to get heated because people tend to take discussions and debates too far. They allow their passion for something get out of control to the point that things are said that do not help either side in a debate. This tends to make it hard for people to listen, regardless of whatever side they are on. I have yet to see any debate such as this NOT be heated where a thorough discussion could be had and points on both sides made.
The fact that there is an issue where people are not happy with the change is not a problem. I get that.
I think it would be much more beneficial for anyone involved in this discussion to provide the developers with more info regarding this whole issue.
However, I do believe that the developers have tried to state multiple times, that there is an underlying issue with the code and balancing problems. This issue is what made the Copperhead in TLOPO too powerful. Is the change perfect? I dont think so, but I believe it's a start to fix the whole issue not only with that upgrade being broken in the first place.
Has anyone said they are NOT listening? But I would then also ask, has this round and round of rudeness and insults (and I'm not pointing out names, just stating in general) giving the developers any desire or reasons to want to listen to those against the copperhead change?
Thus, the questions I posed to Cutthroat Mc Rage above. I'm not a dev, but I would like to understand his reasons better. Right now I'm only seeing the argument of 'it does this % damage and it should do this %' (tried to sum it up there). What is the reasoning behind people wanting this change to be reverted?
The fact that there is an issue where people are not happy with the change is not a problem. I get that.
I think it would be much more beneficial for anyone involved in this discussion to provide the developers with more info regarding this whole issue.
However, I do believe that the developers have tried to state multiple times, that there is an underlying issue with the code and balancing problems. This issue is what made the Copperhead in TLOPO too powerful. Is the change perfect? I dont think so, but I believe it's a start to fix the whole issue not only with that upgrade being broken in the first place.
Has anyone said they are NOT listening? But I would then also ask, has this round and round of rudeness and insults (and I'm not pointing out names, just stating in general) giving the developers any desire or reasons to want to listen to those against the copperhead change?
Thus, the questions I posed to Cutthroat Mc Rage above. I'm not a dev, but I would like to understand his reasons better. Right now I'm only seeing the argument of 'it does this % damage and it should do this %' (tried to sum it up there). What is the reasoning behind people wanting this change to be reverted?
Cutthroat Mc Rage
Swashbuckler
TY Reaperr for stating things so very well and for the record I was and still am Cutthroat Mc Rage from POTCO Called and Considered Legendary and Epic in POTCO SvS by many and I was skipper of The Copperhead Floating Fortress War Frigate know as the Cutthroat King and I was also on POTCO from the second it went online to the very last second they shut the servers down if that tells you anything and look at my start date here Lil Kate April 10th, 2011 as for anything else I believe TheReaperr said it all quite perfectly TY. OH, I was never ever sunk 1 on 1 in POTCO SvS weather sailing alone on my light sloop or my copperhead and that's no brag just fact. The only person that ever came close to taking me down was a mate named Sir Flying Bassplayer. Even the 2 college mates that started this TLOPO Re-Boot I was told had heard of me never met me on POTCO but had heard of me and my SvS and all-around sailing and cannon skills. Bet your sorry ya asked now aren't ya as I have probably forgotten more people from POTCO than you ever knew Kate. My Facebook page has 999 current ex-POTCO players and some nowhere playing on TLOPO. My friend's list it still slowly grows how many you have on yours? Anyway, ty once again Reaperr for saying/explaining it all so well to her. I also have done a lot of Alpha and Closed Beta testing for other games a few such as Word Of Warships, World of Tanks, Guns of Icarus, Sea Of Thieves, Naval Action, and a Day 1 Tester for POTCO and the guy that got all of POTCO the Game Launcher Back thus killing the browser they started and a couple more things and games no need to go on about that and I also build high end moded gaming computers for mates. I can go on as well about that but won't. I do tell you this my knowledge of games and gaming and computers is pretty vast. My first computer was a whole 35mhz and Windows 2.0 think that was back in 1987 maybe early 88 no 87 as I think Win 2.1 came out in 1988. WOWZERS HUH lol
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TheReaperr
Buccaneer
There’s always that extreme group in a community and I always expect it, The extreme doesn’t act rational however they are still a sharing a value able opinion, and they may not express it well because they can’t take the changes easier than others, some of them can be insulting or rude but nevertheless it assures that there’s an issue.
I can write as many replies as I want trying to discuss and detail what ever it is, I’m not sure if this decision of Copperhead nerf was taken because of SvS but please don’t justify it to make Sailing challenging cuz in a mmo game we’re trying to be the top of the line and you work towards it, it’s not like we’re getting to that point easily and fast, for example we have a gun with Crit 3 and 85 dmg (Known as Mercer’s Pistol), when that thing Crits regardless of using a potion it deals an insane amount of dmg and if you want to put it in a balance perspective, that is not regulated in that field, and this is an example of extreme damage in game I’m not comparing it to anything.
Long story short, I am not satisfied with the recent Copperhead nerf and I’d like to see a different implementation.
Have a good one y’all.
- Reaper, The Souls Collector
Cutthroat Mc Rage
Swashbuckler
Reaperr your my Hero Mate
I really mean it, Bro, I personally couldn't say it any better if I tried and I did try. So seriously TY So Very Much Reaperr for saying all that I was trying to say/express you flawlessly did so precisely and eloquently in all your replies to Kate Goldwalker on this subject.
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