Floms
Swashbuckler
There's no way to share feedback at all? Even if it's defaced so that it's not a quote, and the username isn't given anywhere? I'd just like to have a general understanding, not asking for specifics.
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Discussion Revert the Copperhead Broadside Nerf - Patch v1.21.2
- Thread starter Charles Warmonk
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Sorry, but your bloody avatar doesn't belong on a family forum site. Most of your anime were fine.
Are you staff? We just need to be civil here. I see no label in your avatar, so professionalism wouldn't be a mandatory prerequisite I presume.
I see that a lot of different opinions, mine as well has hit the thread, but the comment about complaints from sve about copperheads seems ludicrous at best and perhaps a attempt at an excuse at the expense of pve players for I can't think of a reason in the world to complain about a copperhead in the pve realm. That makes no sense. Pvp, of course, pve no way would I complain about a copperhead being too proficient in sinking npc's.
Hence, even with all your reasons, I still say this was a svs fix only. And ill conceived.
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Truecrash
Honorable Pirate
I did generalize it. Please re-read my previous posts.
No. Please refer to previous posts to get a general understanding, I've gone over the reasoning for the changes in great detail already, including information that we're still tweaking things.
Yes, you did, however there was no detail about pve or listing or quoting any complaints from pve players. Pve seems to be added as a afterthought. Sorry, but that's the impression I get.
TheLastOfOne
Sea Legs
You keep saying to refer to your previous posts without any reference to which post. I have gone through each and every one of your posts with a fine tooth comb to make sure I'm not missing anything, considering that as the developer leading this change, the information you give is incredibly valuable in this discussion. However, I have not seen one single reference as to the issues that affected the SVE community before the change. The only references to SVE I have found throughout this entire discussion are that a.) the dev team is still looking toward making changes to Copper for the sake of SvE, b.) videos from POTCO SvE were used as reference for calculating relative damages between that game and this one, and c.) 'extensive' testing by the dev team has shown that Coppers are still good for SvE in the current build.
The fact that Coppers 'still work' in SvE has no relevance to the question of "What was the problem with Coppers in SvE in the first place?"
The idea that you cannot share the feedback you received from players regarding Coppers in SvE is absurd: you have literally done that very thing regarding feedback from SvS. Simply listing the basic issues and situations that Copper faced in SvS does exactly that; all we are asking is for a basic summary of the problems, the things that made Copper inappropriate in an SvE environment. Based on the fact that I have never in my life heard such a complaint from any mat runner, and from the fact that there are categorically no threads on this forum regarding SvE complaints about Copper, as you suggested we might find, it is very difficult to believe that this feedback exists.
Also, in regard to my posts from last night,
Yes, my claim that you had not considered every possible change was quite assumptive, I agree and apologize for that. However, you can understand my confusion to this point when, in a thread specifically meant to discuss possible options regarding Copper's changes, there has only been ONE staff post makin any reference to other options besides the current build. Your own explanations for your reasoning behind the current changes, while very helpful and informative, mainly form of "this solution was chosen because it fixes this problem in this way" rather than "we chose this solution because it fixes this problem in a better way than this other proposed solution." I would just like to see some comparisons between the viability of different solutions in this thread designed to discuss the changes.
Truecrash
Honorable Pirate
I've given a basic summary already: Copperhead was too powerful. It's really, honestly, that simple. For a rough idea, you could kill the strongest ship in the game within 1-2 broadsides. Couple that with being near-unsinkable, and you've got yourself a recipe for disaster.
The different solutions boiled down to:
1) Lower the damage of explosive
2) Lower the % chance of explosive
3) Limit the max number of explosives per broadside
4) Tweak the stats such as turning radius, speed, or armor
The first would have major impacts on many different areas of the game, to the point it was ruled out.
The second and third are effectively the same solution, with different means of getting there. The main difference being, number 3 is easier to accomplish.
The fourth is seen as a needed change in conjunction with other changes, as alone it would not have solved the main problems at hand.
Please keep in mind that the above is a major simplification of everything, but I'm sure you can get the main idea from it.
You're not the only person playing this game. There are hundreds of others each with varying opinions, and only a small fraction of the community posts on the forums. A majority use the in-game and on-site feedback systems, which we read constantly.
That being said, just because you cannot think of a reason to complain about Copperhead in SvE, doesn't mean other people are the same. So, regardless of what you think, this was not an SvS only fix, and was certainly not ill conceived. Nor was SvE ever an after-thought, we were specifically making this change because SvE was being kept in mind.
Regardless, I believe I have said all I can on this matter, and I think it best that I take my leave from here.
Fair winds, pirates!
Okay. But you've made points about pvp we can all understand, again, however, you've made not a single example of why this would have any complaint in pve. None. And now, when asked for an example about a reason or reasons to change anything in pve sailing, you are clearly avoiding the question and now attempting to close out your input. I find that... incomplete.
And I never meant this to put you or any developer on the defense, and I'm sorry if it appears as such.
yea... feedback from the community ruined pvp and u guys have no plans to do anything whatsoever to take any steps to fix broken pvp. I honestly cant blame u because the pvpers were so super toxic. but as u say, u guys wanna keep up with the Disney plan. that is a losing strategy. disney ran this game into the ground. instead of making this a game for 5 year olds maybe u should consider that this game will be attractive to an older audience and gear it around people with a higher set of game play abilities while making an effort to make the environment friendly to youngsters still? there are absolutely no shortages of opportunities for less competent games to participate still and other than pvp destroyed im pretty happy with game overall. im standing my ground that the copperhead should be reverted right back to the way it was. I will not advise anyone to consider for any reason whatsoever to get a copperhead. u may as well keep your light sloop. I don't like what ive seen in this forums at all and im done here. this whole discussion and the lack of any interest whatsoever to bring pvp back within the forums have left me real salty, I will not lie. u people should try it sometime. bring back fast switch. make the copperhead and high level game play great again!
Stephen Teague
Pirate Lord
Hi there.
Not going to lie I didn’t read all of this but I think I got the general gist. To address your post, we fully intend to fix the various issues with PvP. We have a list of fixes that we gathered from the community and we will hopefully have an update to address them in the near future. In addition, we may take steps to enhance PvP if needed, such as removing the upstairs spawn. We are fully aware that the state of PvP isn’t great at the moment and we truly thank all of the players who take part in it for their patience while we have fixed other things.
If you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we can move it somewhere else, as this is a thread for the Copperhead nerf.
John Macbatten
Wanted Pirate
tlopo bias towards Svs community confirmed
Eric Sailcutter
Pirate Lord
In my opinion the Copperhead should be reverted and the balancing should be done in the SvS arena. Were Copperheads too op in potco SvS? I sure don’t recall that. Certainly the 15% explosives should be reverted, maybe if the performance was different in potco then it should be tweaked to more closely match the way it was in potco. The damage dealt and the health of other ships is readily available, can’t that be matched? If it can and SvS is still an issue then it is SvS that should be changed not the Copperhead.
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Angel20
Honorable Pirate
Hello Charles, there are a few things you are right and wrong in this situation. You see the way the game is rn is beta... meaning there are a ton of bugs to be fixed. Tlopo staff is not a multi billion company like Disney is. The nerf Tlopo did was enough to balanced the game. Before, a copperhead was shooting it’s ammo like a skulls and bones would with only 15% chance while it felt like it was 95% of the time. Which to say tlopo had its math wrong. But instead of fixing it, they added one explosive shot per broadside. It’s a temporary nerf (I hope). There are more issues that Tlopo staff needs to get right before fixing the one explosive per broadside.. like, fixing the armor of the ship. The armor of the ship protects the hull from being damaged 100% effectively. But the thing is, the side armor doesn’t increase property the way it should when the ship is being upgraded. For example, imagine having a regular war sloop, and making it a skulls and bones lvl 6... now while the health of the ship improves, the side armor stays the same as it was when it was a regular ship, meaning it can get broken through easy to reach the maximum capacity of damage. Which made explosive shots broadsides op when it shot 4. It was gg with that broadside. Another bug Tlopo needs to fix before fixing your precious broadsides, is latency. So the way this works is, imagine seeing a broadside coming at you, you want to dodge it, and you do. But in the other players screen, you didn’t. It’s a latency. So imagine these explosive broadsides shooting 6 explosives while it’s supposed to be only 15% chance (which may I clarify is extremely low for a reason the way Disney intended it to be) and not being able to properly dodge them because in your screen you did but in the enemy ship you didn’t. Like you said, what is the point of making a fortune hunter or even the skulls and bones a lvl 6 upgrade which may I add is the second highest health armor ship available, when it gets one shotted everytime by a copper head. I’m also adding here, even if you are a lvl 6 copper head you can still get one shotted by another lvl 6 copper head. It was stupid. You wanting to fix a single problem, while it involves multiple, just shows your ignorance may I add. Coppers were a problem to the game, mainly in svs, because they were broken as hail. I am finished. For you to see how bad these one shots were and how ‘fun’ it was to face a copper head.. I am going to link a video I made showing how coopers were before the nerf upgrade.
Angel20
Honorable Pirate
I encourage you to read my latest post.
Remove all those rocks in mayhem like it used to be before disney added them.
As truecrash already pointed out copperhead was overpowered and it seems some players complained. Copperhead was overpowered when it came to sinking the majority of ships and like truecrash said that combined with copperhead being nearly unsinkable there's really no threat in sve for the copperhead unless you go up aganist a tally-ho or you're a bad steerer. I think they could increase the hp for certain ships so that the copperhead and other custom ships aren't one-shotting them.
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