Discussion The next step...

[Beggar]

My takeaway at this point: If you want trading, then your opinion on the subject doesn't matter.

Read my next comment, then.

 

[squintz]

Really? Were you around during POTCO’s time when pirates would post videos all over YouTube about how “trades” in-game went sour and resentments flourished (on account of trades going bad)? Granted, pirates now are requesting fool-proof ways for trading to occur. This could only help. But, we are also forgetting that some pirates will always find a way to prey on others whom are not so knowledgeable about the game in fully knowing what is actually at stake with a trade. Of course, some pirates are quite knowledgeable so that balances things out.

Challenge becomes does trading cause more good for the game than bad and “whom” is going to know this ahead of time to decide appropriately either way? *Too many pirates are biased for or against trading alone to make this (unbiased) decision either way!

How about we go ahead and try it and see how it plays out before groups shout down something that hasn't even been tested in this environment?
You don't know til you try seems to fit very well here.

 

[squintz]

This is kind of a weird argument - there are obviously implicit costs associated with account sales that aren't there when you can sell individual items. I'd never sell my account, but you can bet I'd sell my repeat legendaries.

It's also pretty revealing that you'd admit that you want trading because you "don't have time" for the grind.

Where did the paypal thing come up. We're talking in game items, in the tlopo world. None of this would have anything to do with a income or real world cost basis at all. Making comparisons to non issues that aren't related just muddy the content that is trying to be conveyed.
If tlopo went to some sort of in game pay thing, well that's up to them. Trading as it's being discussed is just with our inventory, period.

Also, your petty personal comments ending numerous posts aren't appreciated probably by no one, and detract from your posts which are largely intelligent and have salient ideas worth pondering. It's probably better to leave your personal thoughts in your head instead of closing good posts with them.

GL

 

[squintz]

Could you explain what the game's main concept is then? What do you do every time you log in? [That doesn't involve looting.]

Not looting?

 

[squintz]

I don’t think trading should be that easy if it was implemented. To prevent lazy players from getting their guild master’s duplicates. Kinda ruins the game for those who work hard for it.

I think there should be something similar to the galactic trade network in Star Wars the Old Republic. The GTN allows players to sell their items for credits (in game currency), and as for safety, there is no way to be scammed. Once you put an item on the GTN, it is removed from your inventory until it is bought, or until the sell timer runs out. Which means you can’t scam anyone. Additionally, if you’re purchasing something, and someone else buys the item in question a few moments before you do, you get a full refund back from the GTN. So you can continue hunting for that item.

Items don’t necessarily have to be sold for gold. Quite frankly, gold doesn’t have much use, though for some players who have items to sell, can be very useful. Additionally, the current gold cap doesn’t really help either, considering you can only hold 300k. Still, this gives a “trading” feeling in tlopo, while forcing people to work for it, since they do have to pay in exorbitant amounts of gold for the bigger items.

It’s also quite interesting to track because it’ll end up having its own market and trends. Sellers follow those trends, and they’ll come out with riches.

TL;DR I propose something similar to SWTOR’s Galactic Trade Network, along with a gold cap removal. Or a bank.

I don’t think trading should be that easy if it was implemented. To prevent lazy players from getting their guild master’s duplicates. Kinda ruins the game for those who work hard for it.
I'm sorry if this comes off cold, and it's not aimed at anyone known, but I feel no obligation to someone else's work ethic or collection in this game, and since what they do doesn't impact me AND they can not trade with me at the time so they have no use to me with their collections and time, I feel no guilt in not worrying about another's personal efforts. Sorry.

 

[Shamus The Brute]

How about we go ahead and try it and see how it plays out before groups shout down something that hasn't even been tested in this environment?
You don't know til you try seems to fit very well here.

Possibly. But unless I am mistaken, we have yet to hear anyone propose (and to be supportive of) the idea of having trading implemented and then pulled back if it causes too many issues. I admit, some of the recent posts written to this thread I have yet to read.

If trading can be implemented then possibly pulled back (depending upon the implications it causes, or not) can anyone guarantee that resentment and/or ill feelings all across the Caribbean wouldn’t be the end result? Myself, understanding too just how pirates can become zealously passionate about something, realize that even in lieu of a state of compromise this particular (community) issue has enough of an “edge” to shave the scraggly hairs off of SCARY MARY’s legs to make even Remington do a double-take towards her direction.

That “scary,” yeah.

 

[squintz]

It's a thing people do in any game with trading.

They exchange a valuable item for a worthless one, and then afterward, the party trading the worthless item sends some PayPal cash to the person who sold him the valuable item. In games like Counter Strike: Global Offensive and Team Fortress 2, it's not unusual for players to sell items for hundreds (and occasionally, thousands) of dollars.

You can imagine how common scams are in systems like this. People avoid predatory traders by using middlemen and only buying/selling from reputable dealers, but it still happens.

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the sellers and buyers who don't get scammed than the ones who do. The players with the most valuable items in games like those are the ones who paid the most real-world cash for them. It's not something that can be avoided.

While players like me could potentially make a lot of money by selling items, I feel like the legitimacy of the current looting system would be too badly compromised by the threat of people doing this.

You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge of all that.

 

[squintz]

The game won't literally be pay to win because the game will get shut down by Disney if the devs try to make any actual money off it. However, the playerbase themselves will make it a pay to win using their own out-of-pocket money to get the weapons they desire. This can't and won't be controlled.

What? Are you saying that you have programmed the whole tlopo coding in your system so that you can insert a outside the game item into your client or computer tlopo folders and tlopo will not discover that? So, have people already broke the tlopo code and can just plop anything they want into the game? Because that's whats needed, is some 3rd party cheat code that allows items created or 'bought' outside the game and can be run in game. Is that what you are meaning?
Is this about PVP domination again? Because there really is no need for buying anything in PVE portion. It's just you and the enemies and they don't care if you use legendary or a twig.

 

[squintz]

trading isnt coming to tlopo. this means you (@Fred Anderson @Chris Swordshot) are flaming each other over something that doesnt and will never matter outside of this thread. peep the name i know a thing or two about flaming. youre also ruining your relationships with one another when maybe you might have become friends otherwise. most of all i feel bad for @Beggar because he shouldnt have had to waste his time proving to you what you could have looked up. mods wya>? thread has run its course

Big wrong. Not only has the thread not run its course, trading will probably become a thing. It's up to people if they want to stay or not if trading is implemented.

 

[squintz]

Well, you see, the transaction itself is only part of it. Selling accounts has it's own complications, and this is from the notion you shouldn't give it away/share with anybody else. It is the account you created, with your pirates, and all the work you put forth. Let's consider two different scenarios here to illustrate this central point.

Scenario A
User 1 sells their account on eBay. User 2 purchases said account, and is given access to it via the seller. A few weeks after the transaction, User 1 regrets selling their account, and decides to take it back. Due to the fact both sides will dispute account access, it is undoubtedly going to drag in TLOPO staff. So, who wins out? User 1.

Players cannot change emails themselves, and therefore must contact staff to have it performed for them. User 1 gave account access to User 2, but did not have emails switched, and therefore holds power over resetting passwords and communicating with support as the account holder (i.e. the email tied to the account). However, this does not mean they will get off scot-free.

They may regain control over the account, but will likely face a ban due to the fact they sold it. So, in essence, both sides lose. Even if emails were switched, and User 2 managed to claim control instead of User 1, the end result would remain the same (banned due to ToS violation).

Scenario B
User 1 is friends with User 2, and both share User 1's account/pirates. A few months later, both friends end up getting into an argument, and User 2 ends up deleting User 1's pirates out of anger. At the same time, User 1 changes the account password - locking out User 2. As a consequence for allowing others into their account, User 1 has lost the progress they made.

Scenario C
Similarly to Scenario B, User 1 and 2 share User 1's account/pirates. During a standard play session, User 2 ends up saying a slew of foul language on User 1's primary pirate. Due to the extensive rule breaking, TLOPO ends up issuing disciplinary actions against the account. User 1 protests and states they weren't the ones who said anything wrong. However, due to the fact it was still their account, they become liable.

In conclusion, all three scenarios illustrate why these provisions exist. Real-world transactions for trading would only make things more complicated for staff, and it would be even harder to solve due to the logistics of solving such disputes in the first place.

Sorry this makes no sense for the most part. For the simple reason this is in beta, and looks to be in beta for the foreseeable future-possible years. Why on earth would anyone want to buy an account in a beta game? Specially if a game is released whole, beta accounts usually get wiped. The discussion is about trading, and would be in game items only, and tested in beta. Bringing in examples from other paid account games is ludicrous.

 

[Bort Greasegorb]

What? Are you saying that you have programmed the whole tlopo coding in your system so that you can insert a outside the game item into your client or computer tlopo folders and tlopo will not discover that? So, have people already broke the tlopo code and can just plop anything they want into the game? Because that's whats needed, is some 3rd party cheat code that allows items created or 'bought' outside the game and can be run in game. Is that what you are meaning?
Is this about PVP domination again? Because there really is no need for buying anything in PVE portion. It's just you and the enemies and they don't care if you use legendary or a twig.

What I'm saying is, people will trade, say, a light sabre for leviathan but the giver of the light sabre will then pay actual money to the person for the leviathan outside of the game rather than just giving them a strong weapon.

 

[squintz]

Why are we still having this discussion... Haven't we talked about this on like 15 other threads already?

Trading will hurt the game more than it will benefit. The cons outweigh the pros in this situation, unfortunately.

Because we can. Staying civil about it is productive to both sides. We can't just shut down threads because someone doesn't like the idea being discussed. Aside from the unrealistic paypal argument, bring something else to the table why open trading can't work in tlopo instead of just trying to shut people up?

 

[squintz]

I am against trading for several reasons: 1) It would open avenues for people to bully or otherwise coerce others into trading. 2) It would devalue top items as they would become more common in the game, of course this could be mitigated by reducing drop rates but I bet that would be met with violent objections. 3) It would change the balance of the game, as more and more people get closer to their ideal inventory faster. 4) There is a danger that Disney might see this as a modification of their game for profit. Even if it's not directly benefiting the developers.

There are probably more but those are the ones at the top of my mind.

I only see trading as a way for those who can't compete to even the score.

I disagree on number 4 Eric. If trade in tlopo is for in game free items, is tos regulated against anything else monetary outside of game gold and gems, then disney has no reason to react because without cheating, one can not profit real world with tlopo.

 

[squintz]

I have explained the reasoning for it countless times before... So I will just make 1 fact perfectly clear.

Trading will unquestionably be the death of this game.

Oh please. I hope you're being sarcastic.

 

[Roger-Daniel]

How about we go ahead and try it and see how it plays out before groups shout down something that hasn't even been tested in this environment?
You don't know til you try seems to fit very well here.

The same thing goes for people against nerfing a weapon no matter what the stats are

 

[Roger-Daniel]

Big wrong. Not only has the thread not run its course, trading will probably become a thing. It's up to people if they want to stay or not if trading is implemented.

I don't think so because trading will be a hugely controversial update and the devs would probably rather be safe than sorry and not risk tearing the community apart.
Besides I wouldn't think they would want to introduce a mechanic that will MASSIVELY alter the entire game, changing the focus of large aspects of it a great deal from the way POTCO was.
Trading (in my eyes) would be the worst update in tlopo history since there are so many other ways that the devs could improve the game besides another update making loot an even bigger aspect of the game than it already is.

 

[squintz]

Agreed, legendaries should be off the table during trades in progress. Consider it done!

Don't agree. To limit open trade would be to over burden a system that players would be creating a free enterprise system just like pirates had.
Well, within pirate reason that is. Who's right is it to tell me I can't trade whatever I loot in game? What is the real concern here? Is it because it lessons someones personal efforts in their eyes? "you got that for 'n' gold in one hour while I three weeks grinding Hex?" Really? Tough.
Is it because people feel other pirates will beat them in PVP? That's a very real reason, but shouldn't stop trading.
I wish for people to clarify the innuendos whether they truly mean pvp or not. Because none of the arguments against trading make a lick of sense in the pve realm.

Again, what other people have in their inventories and how much sweat equity and life wasting they did to find stuff IS NOT my concern. And shouldn't be. I'd feel like a total idiot if I was in the gold room alone and then someone came in and I told them they can't stay because I was there first. I won't join long time great guilds for that reason. Trading is the same way in my mind. If I want to trade, I should be able to trade anything because there's another pirate who can choose to buy it or trade for it. I can't make anyone do anything. Nor would I tell anyone in the game what they can or can not do.
I see nothing wrong in trying something out in game, considering it's a beta in the first place.
GL.

 

[Fortune Burnrose]

Where did the paypal thing come up. We're talking in game items, in the tlopo world. None of this would have anything to do with a income or real world cost basis at all. Making comparisons to non issues that aren't related just muddy the content that is trying to be conveyed.
If tlopo went to some sort of in game pay thing, well that's up to them. Trading as it's being discussed is just with our inventory, period.

Also, your petty personal comments ending numerous posts aren't appreciated probably by no one, and detract from your posts which are largely intelligent and have salient ideas worth pondering. It's probably better to leave your personal thoughts in your head instead of closing good posts with them.

GL

The fact that you fail to comprehend the usage of real money for in-game items confuses me. This happens in other games like Rocket League or CS:GO so you can't argue that it doesn't happen or that it doesn't make sense. You just don't understand.

 

[squintz]

The same thing goes for people against nerfing a weapon no matter what the stats are

Not at all. That's a poor analogy that's not even close. Nerfing a weapon effects everyone instantly without a choice. Trading is a choice.
If I trade a dagger legendary with joe pirate because I have dupes and he has dupe swords that I don't have and we trade, and now I have another legendary to use. How in the world did that effect you? Please explain how I just ruined your game, another player I don't even know?

 

[Fortune Burnrose]

Sorry this makes no sense for the most part. For the simple reason this is in beta, and looks to be in beta for the foreseeable future-possible years. Why on earth would anyone want to buy an account in a beta game? Specially if a game is released whole, beta accounts usually get wiped. The discussion is about trading, and would be in game items only, and tested in beta. Bringing in examples from other paid account games is ludicrous.

"This is beta" argument is a weak one. The scenarios Jawn provided made sense. "Why on earth would anyone want to buy an account in a beta game?" Let me ask you this, if your account was deleted right now, would you care? I imagine you would say yes. Just because we are in beta, doesn't mean people treat this game any differently... (besides having a different attitude towards bugs and unreleased features etc.) Someone would buy an account in beta for the exact same reason as they would if we weren't in beta.