Discussion Why trading is a BAD idea...

[squintz]

I fully understand the idea that looting may suffer due to adding trading. But what if some limits were applied?

Say legendary and even famed items could be off limits. In other words only common and rares could be traded. Or you to be a certain level etc to trade famed.

This means the honor of having legends is still upheld and looters could still make some extra gold by trading off rares or fames they don't want.

I also want to mention all of the other MMOs I play or have played (like Star Wars, Guild Wars) have a form of trading or guild banks and I don't think it diminishes them in any way.

One think that could be added to boost looter morale is add Achievements. Like adding to the Treasures menu. Legends/Famed items when found naturally would be added to the chart. Then looters can screenshot and show off their finds.

Old thread, but anyways, NO limits. Let the market dictate value. NO off limits to anything. Let the market dictate. No one cares if your price your legendary at 10000 gold. It's up to others if they want to pay that. Peoples greed will dictate how off limits a legendary is. And greed is ALWAYS in play. Ones sentiment or idea of value will be judged by the market.

People who are looters should not be deciding what is good or bad or fair for the populace of a game.

 

[Jack Cannonskull]

Again, to a old post, I wasn't aware pride was a tlopo prerequisite for playing and enjoying Tlopo.

Again, I don't remember what the context was here or why I posted this. It seems like a dumb post to me too xD. I'm on a famed drought of like 6 months now so

 

[squintz]

Dude I don't even remember why I posted that, It's been a long time. Don't quote old posts. It isn't a good habit. One time someone quoted a post I posted about trading months after it was posted. They lashed out at me for my opinion, yet my opinion had totally changed XD. Just please don't assume that I still feel the same way, I don't remember why I posted that.

I've read many peoples up to date posts and they are still relevant to their sentiment of the older posts. Then one would or could take the time to comment to the recent post about their sentiment now. Like you did, but you don't remember. But you attempted to reply. Which is cool.

I can't remember a phone number for three feet, sooooo.

 

[squintz]

Again, I don't remember what the context was here or why I posted this. It seems like a dumb post to me too xD. I'm on a famed drought of like 6 months now so

No kidding. I just got a fame last night for the first time in 2 months. What's with that?

 

[squintz]

I agree.. because if this is made possible I have this nightmare vision of never being able to even enter the gold room or any other place with bosses anymore, because they be crowded with toonies punching in for work to make famed and legendaries available somewhere else on the Internet, for say 25 real life dollars, and then pass them "as a gift" to whoever pays.
You all have seen this on other games.
You all have seen those games ruined by it.
They all started with wishing for a storage alt.
You all have seen that it couldn't be controlled.

I would hope that the devs, if they deem fit to implement such a proposition, will restrict it as a narrow system, where the main priority should be maintaining abuse control.
For instance make this only available to guild officers, as a guild internal system, where they would need to get the gift approved before giving the items away. In the same manner as the name system works today.

Be well everyone and enjoy the game! Either way careful what you wish for!

Rehashing an old part of the thread.
Perhaps you can post one (1) example of a game ruined by trading. I submit NO ONE has seen what you propose. In a game where people tell me to leave or don't come in to the gold room on a daily basis, you really think trading's going to make that any worse? If these are the same looters who don't want trade, then they don't have to trade. Again, a self eloquent solution to what looters think is a bad idea.

 

[squintz]

Wait I'm a bit late to the discussion... please, please, please tell me trading isn't seriously even being considered as an option?
This will devalue the loot to unparalleled proportions- non cursed famed are going to be peanuts and even legendary cursed will lose their luster.

If you're so late into the discussion, no disrespect, then take a few hours and read from the start like I am again to gain some knowledge and dimension of this thread because your comment has echo'd 27 times others at least. There's 345 posts in this combined thread. And the mods combining it really didn't do anyone any favors this time. People aren't even remembering what they posted from the other threads.

That said, I will leave it up to you to attempt to catch up a little because I have no initiative to reply.

GL

 

[squintz]

I see where your coming from, but this is actually not true. With trading, people don't need to get lucky to find a weapon. It's a 100% guarantee that they will get the item. Without trading, you can loot for 100 years and never get a weapon. Basically, if trading is implemented and you want a weapon, you can buy it from one of the hundreds of people that has it. If trading is not implemented and you have a weapon, money and other weapons that your have have nothing to do with it; you have to put in time and effort to earn it. Although I don't believe trading is all bad, it will devalue items somewhat. The thing that we won't know without at least testing it is how much it will devalue them. Hopefully, only a small bit of value is lost and more is gained in other places. What many others are worried about is if a lot of value is lost in the items to the point that it devalues the game. I hope that everyone understands each other here and why some are worried. They have reason to worry, but trading could turn out to be great. As it seems that they will be implementing trading eventually, we will just have to wait and see!

Again an reply to a old post response, but I'm killing time anyhow.

I agree that something won't be known until tried, and that you're at least willing to give it a chance. But I don't agree with the next line...

"With trading, people don't need to get lucky to find a weapon. It's a 100% guarantee that they will get the item. ...Although I don't believe trading is all bad, it will devalue items somewhat."

I see, but I'm not getting why what another person does with his play time has anything to do with anyone else? Whether you have 1 legendary or 10 is completely and utterly unrelated to my game time, or my style. Or that being lucky is some sort of prerequisite for tlopo. What one does with his game experience is his own, and if ones gaming doesn't impact another's experience unless each chooses to do so, then whether I trade or not is not anyone else business. And as such, no one else should dictate I should not have an option to enjoy a trading scenario if I so chose.

You do not share this contention of course, but I've been reading this 350 post thread about trading and have gotten an ill feeling that a minority of players are trying to dictate their sentiments and agenda's on the greater community and I don't appreciate it in the least.
But that's my opinion.

 

[Marc Swordbreaker]

I think we need some rules on necro posting

 

[squintz]

Why Trading Should Never Be Implemented in The Legend of Pirates Online​

1. Longevity – The game is centralized around YOUR INVENTORY. Debate this FACT if you want, but more than 50% of the community plays this game for the looting aspect it specializes in. When you have trading, you are making the game EASIER to finish. (Aka: Making the game end more quickly) When you have everything you want in your inventory, and so does everyone else. You lose passion for the game since you are looting for nothing, and everyone has what you have faster.


2. Exploiting – In no system arguable, can you make a trading system in a FREE MMO without taking advantage. (This is just one of many examples...) Muilt-Boxing You make multiple pirates and give all the good loot they get to your main with muilt-boxing. If you have 1 pirate loot you get 4 loot drops per kill, which turns into 8 if you have two pirates…. 12 if you have 3 pirates, and you can multiply your loot drop rate the more alts you made for looting OR sailing.

3. Bad Deals – Taking advantage of other players who don’t know the value of others. “Full Moon Special Repeater is better than Skullbone Repeater because of its higher attack! We should trade!”

4. Guild Agreements – You have a whole guild give all weapons to singular player and they become the ‘best’ pirate in the game in no time. Killing the ‘race to find all legendary’ indefinitely to “Who’s the most popular”.

5. Promoting Buying & Selling – This is probably the most DANGEROUS part of trading. If trading and buying is within the game, players will start wanting to buy inventories, weapons, and clothing even from other players. I cannot name the amount of times I’ve heard “If trading was out I’d give you my Thunderspine Sword for… $$$” or “If Trading was a thing I’d give you my Bright Corset for…. $$$”

6. Community Drama & Disrupting Staff – With trading out, players who get bad deals, disconnect between a trading process, or find a way to abuse new hacking system would STRESS OUT, OVER CLOCK, and flat out BOMBARD staff with emails, complaints, and flat out distress. Staff need time to focus on the game, not the players trading choices.

7. Destroying experience for low level players! – This one is a brutal truth… The Pirates of the Caribbean Online/The Legend of Pirates Online is an EASY GAME. Now imagine, you’re a level 1 and you just start out the game? Now imagine you have a friend that just gives you all his spare ‘rare’ high level weapons? You’d be leveling faster, questing quicker, and practically FLYING through the game invisibly with weapons you did not even work for. SPOILER ALERT!!!:
8. The game is centered around looting – You are a pirate, not a navy dog, or a big company. The idea of POTCO/TLOPO is that you plunder and pillage enemies, forts, and fleets to ransack the Navy and other “formattable enemies” to uncover your treasures. If trading is a thing you can achieve the same inventory as a player who’s looted night and day for MONTHS, in a couple of short deals. What kind of pirate would you say that is without getting your hands dirty?

9. The End of Passionate Looters – I know always one person in the comments always seem to point out… “Not everyone has as much time to loot on the game as (Charles Warmonk)” My response to them is, yes. I take this game very passionately and seriously when it comes to the looting aspect of this game, and I cannot argue that. I’ve made guides, videos, lessons, recorded loot drops and made theories for YEARS now. (Geez I need a life huh…?) So no, not everyone can loot as much as me. Is that a bad thing? Do I sound selfish in my pervious points now? I admit I sometimes show a bit of an ego, but the fact remains that I truly want this game to last a long time.

If I’ve still not changed your thoughts on looting, please leave a comment below responding an answer for ALL 9 of the following problems regarding the trading being added within the game. I will debate this topic into the ground… but please remain respectful to other players’ opinions no matter the side they stand on.

Thank you.

Sorry Charlie. I will not respond to all 9 illogical and biased comments about things that are not a problem.
But just one response. All nine of your comments are based on ONE self created contention. That this game is based on looting.
Only because that's what you believe on your own conditioning. I believe that it's a vast minority who share your views.

We have no choice but to loot as there isn't much yet for rewards. Or to create wealth. But many people would offer many other things they think the game is based on. Guilds, community, questing just to solve the quest.
You want the game to last a long time. Then the game needs more depth than 3 skull rated skull chests. It needs community involvement.
A hard core looters life is a lonely one. I appreciate all the work you've done with the guides and vids, but it's still about a single sliver of the games world.
Believe it or not, I can still play this game if I never opened another loot container. I may be poor, but I still can do quests and sail and fight enemies. One could just collect the weapons to level with and play with the cloths on their back, and not grind for extra rares and stuff.

And if every single passionate looter quit today, sadly, no one would hear their empty skull chest slam shut. Nor know they were no more.

but I wish you well and that you continue in your passion.

 

[squintz]

In my opinion, there's always a competitive side to the human spirit, so even if there isn't an official loot contest, in everyone's mind there is one. The whole idea of looting is to gather the most fearsome inventory of any pirate in the Caribbean. Trading would pretty much make all these looters feel like they're fighting a useless battle since anyone can be a top contender with trading around.

"The whole idea of looting is to gather the most fearsome inventory of any pirate in the Caribbean."

I'm sorry, but where exactly in potco or tlopo lore or game rules does it say or suggest that. Or is this an old time saying amongst heavy looters that has passed around for years? I've never gotten the impression in 10 months that I needed to have the best of anything. I just wanted stronger weapons to actually use on monsters and skells and bosses. Finding anything good has always been a "holy crap, I can't believe I got this" reaction, then I'd sell it if it wasn't going to do me any good with my level. I'll even sell a legendary if it does nothing for my toon in battle.

But I'd much rather sell that legendary for much more gold than some peddler will pay me.
And about inventory. Since we can only equip a one handed weapon, and nothing else, nor have armor, what good is an inventory when we can not equip in sets?

GL

 

[squintz]

Not sure what happened here...

This thread was made months ago when there was a leaked video that seemed to indicate trading. It wasn't specified if it was TLOPO's property or not but most people assumed it was.

People argued violently for a while about it. It soon dialed down though and the thread served it's purpose and the thread was "dead".

Some random person who I don't know, and who obviously has no respect for me just made an account and (for some unknown reason) attacked a post that I made months ago. I defended myself, wondering why he attacked me. Now the thread was revived....????

It was never closed. And it wasn't revived, it is still is going. And trading has been a topic before you came to tlopo as well.
As I just answered 3 months after!

 

[LesPaulObsession]

I don't agree, I think you should be able to buy higher level items, you just can't use them until you level up to that items level.
The equip level coding is already in the game, no sense reinventing the wheel.

I mean, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I honestly don't remember what my mindset was when I wrote that post, but I know it likely hasn't changed. Just some way to prevent players from using stuff they aren't qualified to use, you know like the game works already? lol I don't care how they get it, trade, loot, sailing, all are legitimate methods to me.

 

[Bort Greasegorb]

"The whole idea of looting is to gather the most fearsome inventory of any pirate in the Caribbean."

I'm sorry, but where exactly in potco or tlopo lore or game rules does it say or suggest that. Or is this an old time saying amongst heavy looters that has passed around for years? I've never gotten the impression in 10 months that I needed to have the best of anything. I just wanted stronger weapons to actually use on monsters and skells and bosses. Finding anything good has always been a "holy crap, I can't believe I got this" reaction, then I'd sell it if it wasn't going to do me any good with my level. I'll even sell a legendary if it does nothing for my toon in battle.

But I'd much rather sell that legendary for much more gold than some peddler will pay me.
And about inventory. Since we can only equip a one handed weapon, and nothing else, nor have armor, what good is an inventory when we can not equip in sets?

GL

The whole idea of looting, not the rest of the game itself.

 

[squintz]

That's fair, and while there will still be few people giving things away (in my opinion) maybe a solution to that would be that something MUST be offered by BOTH parties in order to trade. If you're giving gold, maybe set a minimum amount that must be traded, in order to prevent people just giving stuff away? It makes no difference to me how I acquire my gear personally, as I do it the most efficient way I can, but it could help in preventing your concern of a free for all market, where people just give items away

I don't think there would be a problem with being allowed to give something away in a trade if I choose to do so. I may want to give a guild mate a higher sword to help them without making them pay for it. They're my friends, why should my choice have any bearing on another? I do this in any mmo i've ever played that had trading. Putting all sorts of roadblocks in the way to make trading more difficult seems a way of placating a minority of players. I have no idea where people get this perception of negativity about giving something away.
Trading would be a choice, and choice means the game gives you the opportunity to decide to do something with something. The devs adding trading would be adding another feature and it could/would be up to the beta testers whether it's an idea that will work.

But people for or against something before it's even tried is futile. No where in this thread has anyone thrown out ideas of how to make trading work in our environment form and game play wise, just mostly why trading wouldn't work..

Yea, I'm only up to page 16, almost last October and I haven't read past this yet. So forgive me for redundancies and I've seen 6 new alerts since I started posting a few hours ago. And I won't see those until tomorrow. Or next year. Depending what I'm doing.

GL

 

[mcasitalia]

If anything, maybe at first it could be restricted to certain items or to levels. Take how Warframe does it for instance. The Galatine Prime which is a mastery rank 13 (I think) weapon cannot be accessed at a lower mastery rank when it comes to trade. Yes, that only applied to its blueprint, but for us it could be on the basis of the weapon in general.
- Unable to trade for weapon/gear above our level or above by a certain amount (such as 5+ higher)
- Clothing COULD be tradable as there are monthly and event based outfits that maybe someone missed out on

Aside from those two things, not really sure what COULD be tradable. Doubt they would do ships, but you never know. "Oh you want this fully upgraded ship? Well trade me this such-and-such and a set amount of gold for it."

Frankly I WOULD like to see trading added, but I am not entirely sure we have enough to make it all that viable.

 

[squintz]

The Trade System - by Jack Cannonskull
This is my idea for a trade system in TLOPO. Please feel free to comment and post your constructive criticism.
The Even Way
In my system there are different ways to trade. Let's start with the most simple way... The "even way"
crude = crude
common=common
rare=rare
famed=famed
NOTE: You can trade more than 1 item using this type of trade, meaning you could trade a rare for rare a famed for a famed and so on
Examples: Admirals Cutlass for Gorilla Blunderbuss, Rusty sabre for Rusty Cutlass, Revenant Ram for Priming Ram, Revenant Ram for Priming Ram AND The Lost Sword of El Patron for Silver Freeze
This type of trade would be best when you feel you have an equal item to the item your being offered, or if you have a dup you'd like to trade for a different item of the same rarity.
The Gold Way
ways to use the gold way.
1. Trade a certain amount of gold for an item
2. Trade a certain amount of gold and an item of that rarity
NOTE: You can still trade more than one item using this type of trade.
Examples: 150k gold for Iron Priming Ram, Holly Cutlass for 10k gold, Revenant Ram for 80k gold and Deepwater Blade
This type of trade would be best when you don't have an item you think the other person will accept, or if you want to pay handsomely for good items, or if you want to use the even way but the other person want more, so you shell out some gold.
The Uneven Way
ways to use the uneven way
1. You may give an item of a different rarity to another player but they must give you another item and a certain amount of gold.
Examples: Iron Priming Ram and 100k gold + for The Lost Sword of El Patron ( + meaning you must offer at least 100k gold but you can up it if the other person wont accept.

To better explain the uneven way it works like this: If you offer a crude for a common (whoever is offering the crude must also give at least 1k gold) in that case then

1. crude 1k + = common
2. crude 50k + = rare
3. crude 100k + = famed
4. crude 160k + legendary

1. common 30k + = rare
2. common 90k + = famed
3. common 160k + legendary

1. rare 70k + = famed
2. rare 160k + = legendary

1. famed 90k = legendary

FAQS:
1. Players will not be able to trade cursed items with players who have not unlocked them yet. If a player attempts to do so a message will pop up on screen saying "This player has not unlocked cursed blades yet, choose another item"
2. You can trade more than 1 item in all of three of these ways
3. I'm desperately hoping that the uneven way I made up can please both people like me and other looters and those who want free trade. Hopefully the amount of gold you pay will keep rip offs and free items away, but still allow players to have free trade like some of you wanted.
4. The amount of gold you pay in the uneven way might seem high to some players but please understand that gold isn't the most useful thing, and it's also not that hard to get if you do the right activities. Meaning ship runs and blackjack.
5. I really tried to compromise between all of our ideas and I really hope that this system can do that. If you have any constructive criticism PLEASE PLEASE quote my post and tell me, I will consider ALL of your ideas.

Interesting. But probably not viable in any of the 3 ways submitted. Who decides what something is worth? You? Womack? Sparrow?

Here's something radical. Free Market. Let the people dictate what the market will bear. You price it, no one buys, you lower your offer until someone buys. Simple. Also, should be a buyers classified, asking to buy for a price. So, a classified listing section. Buy and sell.

And no one cares if someone gives something away to friends or guildies. Next thing probably is looters will want a limited number of items like say 100 el patrons only available game wide.

That wouldn't work either. I'd rather leave the final idea, structure and deployment up to the dev's who have a full grasp of the games mechanics and hopefully not biased in game play styles.

GL

 

[squintz]

If you add trading, every good item is given to a player. None of them will ever be trashed. Now, in the past week, how many people do you think have found a famed or legendary in a week? Let's be generous and say 100 famed are found in a week by ALL PLAYERS. That's 3 players will FULL FAMED INVENTORY (Max inventory is 34 + 1 sailing item). That means... EVERY. SINGLE. WEEK. 3 people will have a FULL. FAMED. INVENTORY. Now, let's do the math more.... (Yay!) in a month. 9 people will have full famed inventory. In a half a year, 54 players will have full famed inventory. In a YEAR 108 players will have a FULL FAMED INVENTORY. Let's not even talk about all the legendary?!

So answer me THIS. In a year of playing this game.... would you want every, single, pirate to have the same inventory as you? Full Brights, Full Famed, All Legendary? Would you even come back onto the game? Show off your Admiral's, World Eater Blade? If someone could just trade it from a friend and use it themselves?

I stand behind my statement, if Trading is released, the game will die. Period.

Late but have to respond.
"So answer me THIS. In a year of playing this game.... would you want every, single, pirate to have the same inventory as you? Full Brights, Full Famed, All Legendary? Would you even come back onto the game? Show off your Admiral's, World Eater Blade? If someone could just trade it from a friend and use it themselves?"

This is strictly, utterly one persons opinion on how this game is to be played. And have a right to that opinion. And that opinion seems to be narrow minded toward the greater community- every body else in fact. Not everyone feels they are in competition with another member for gear. I feel in competition with the GAME, to solve quests, team up to beat bosses, finally beat the bloody pearl quest.
Perhaps I'll create a poll to see how many members actually care what other members are using.
I'll do that later. It might bring another light to this discussion. I don't believe the majority are so self serving when it comes to loot and loot control.

I also don't think trading will kill anything, including hard core looting. Trading can and will add another positive level of community interaction. And that's what is essentially needed in mmo's. Or they could die.
But that's my opinion.

 

[Charles Warmonk]

Sorry Charlie. I will not respond to all 9 illogical and biased comments about things that are not a problem.
But just one response. All nine of your comments are based on ONE self created contention. That this game is based on looting.
Only because that's what you believe on your own conditioning. I believe that it's a vast minority who share your views.

We have no choice but to loot as there isn't much yet for rewards. Or to create wealth. But many people would offer many other things they think the game is based on. Guilds, community, questing just to solve the quest.
You want the game to last a long time. Then the game needs more depth than 3 skull rated skull chests. It needs community involvement.
A hard core looters life is a lonely one. I appreciate all the work you've done with the guides and vids, but it's still about a single sliver of the games world.
Believe it or not, I can still play this game if I never opened another loot container. I may be poor, but I still can do quests and sail and fight enemies. One could just collect the weapons to level with and play with the cloths on their back, and not grind for extra rares and stuff.

And if every single passionate looter quit today, sadly, no one would hear their empty skull chest slam shut. Nor know they were no more.

but I wish you well and that you continue in your passion.

First, if you don't care about items in the game to this degree... why would you even want trading?

Secondly (This is for all the people who keep saying Lots of Gold for Famed / Legendary ) - I can earn 300,000 gold in a few hours.... do you think a legendary is worth 300,000 gold? If 7 players have a legendary each, do you think the VALUE of finding all seven is a mere 2,100,000 gold?...

Thirdly, if we got trading... what game play would be left after questing? (Keep in mind I say game play... not role playing/guilds)

 

[Matthew McBreaker]

You can’t get 300k gold in a matter of hours unless you’re using poker. That isn’t possible lol.

As for ruining the game and speaking out for the best interest of the community in terms of trading. I think all one has to do before posting “this is what should happen because it’s best for everyone and that’s what everyone wants”, is look at the poll. Majority support trading. Simple as that.

EDIT:
Concerning the threats to leave the game. If they leave the game, so be it, they can quit. Trading shouldn’t ruin the game for you, there are many different entertainment routes to pursue in this game aside from looking for a legendary.
Also, this threat doesn’t hold much to it, as this game is free to play, so the dev’s wouldn’t be losing any money honestly. For them it’s likely a win win. The MAJORITY of the community, reflected in this poll, is happy. It doesn’t cost them money. And honestly, less strain on their servers lol.

 

[John Yellowrat]

This thread has been dead for weeks, what happened? lol