Discussion Why trading is a BAD idea...

[Jack Cannonskull]

This is a great topic by the way. Some people mentioned the chance of the thread being locked.

I'd like to remind folks: There is a fine line between discussing differences and arguing about them.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Suggestions and ideas combined sometimes make for a great new concept.
Nothing is ever 100% right or 100% wrong. Let's respect the fact that we all have different opinions.
There shouldn't be reasons to lock threads if we are polite, sane, and respectful. Thank you!

"An open mind is our greatest treasure" quote by Punkin

Yes Pumpkin I said this because I was attacked by a post that had no intentions of helping, or giving a respectful opinion but was rather just a "put down" post.

While I agree, that bad deals will likely happen, I don't like the "even trading" system. For instance, I have two legendary weapons, of the same type, but I really want "X" cannon ram, which is rare, or famed, and I really, really want it. I'd be willing to part with my item, for the ram, and maybe a bit of coin. I don't just want to be confined to my item's rarity when it comes to trading. Once again, I stand by my take on "bad deals". If you accept one, and fall for it, without doing your research, that's your fault, just as much as it is the other party's. I definitely don't condone it, but if it happens, you'll learn from it, and you definitely won't do it again. I often find myself playing this game with friends, and thinking "Goodness TLOPO, could you let go of my hand? I can walk on my own, thank you." While I have nothing against the game, I think holding players hands in a trade, is just an extra, annoying, and unnecessary obstacle. If you make a mistake, learn from it. Don't do it again. How did you learn how to ride a bike on your own? Sure, your parents might have helped you in the beginning, but you probably fell over a time or two and thought "Hmm, that kinda hurts, I should not do that again" and learned from it. And I don't think that there are as many "nice" pirates giving away tons of valuable equipment. As I said before, I'm a fairly nice guy. I enjoy helping out the next pirate, but I'm also thinking for myself a lot too. If I have 2 or 3 of the same rare weapon, I'm selling those for profit, because you can bet your rear I want to put the money or weapons I acquire from those trades, to good use.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to attack anyone or put anyone down, I'm just voicing my side of the argument, and my take on trading. If I have ever come off as rude, or passive aggressive, I assure that it was not my intent. I like to keep the forums a fun and thought provoking place

See this is the kind of posts that are beneficial. You gave your points in a respectful manner, and although I don't agree with you, your post still made me think about the flaws in the system I had proposed.

I just don't like the risk of "Free Items" I do think this will happen and I'm just very against it. Every item should come from hard work. If it doesn't things just become boring and its not as rewarding in the end.

Not sure if you played in Alpha but if you did you'll remember that they gave us The Lost Sword and some other fames.

Now if you have the lost sword in Beta which did you feel better about?

The one you got in beta right? Of course. Why? Because you worked hard to get it and it was rewarding to finally loot it. Why wasn't it rewarding in Alpha? Because you did absolutely nothing to get it. It was given out free, and many, many players had it.

While I agree that there aren't a ton of people who would do that I still know for fact that there are people out there who will beg and people out there who will give. "Free Item" trading would significantly decrease the "rewarding feeling you get when getting something good"

I feel like the "even system" would still be rewarding, (you still worked hard to get that famed but all your doing is trading it for another famed that you don't have.

I see your point in the cannon ram example though and that's certainly a flaw in my idea. Not sure how to work that out, I'll think about it.

Thank you for presenting your points in a respectful manner.

 

[Jack Cannonskull]

Yes Pumpkin I said this because I was attacked by a post that had no intentions of helping, or giving a respectful opinion but was rather just a "put down" post.

See this is the kind of posts that are beneficial. You gave your points in a respectful manner, and although I don't agree with you, your post still made me think about the flaws in the system I had proposed.

I just don't like the risk of "Free Items" I do think this will happen and I'm just very against it. Every item should come from hard work. If it doesn't things just become boring and its not as rewarding in the end.

Not sure if you played in Alpha but if you did you'll remember that they gave us The Lost Sword and some other fames.

Now if you have the lost sword in Beta which did you feel better about?

The one you got in beta right? Of course. Why? Because you worked hard to get it and it was rewarding to finally loot it. Why wasn't it rewarding in Alpha? Because you did absolutely nothing to get it. It was given out free, and many, many players had it.

While I agree that there aren't a ton of people who would do that I still know for fact that there are people out there who will beg and people out there who will give. "Free Item" trading would significantly decrease the "rewarding feeling you get when getting something good"

I feel like the "even system" would still be rewarding, (you still worked hard to get that famed but all your doing is trading it for another famed that you don't have.

I see your point in the cannon ram example though and that's certainly a flaw in my idea. Not sure how to work that out, I'll think about it.

Thank you for presenting your points in a respectful manner.

Possibly something like rare and X amount of gold = famed

 

[ElizaCreststeel]

Other MMO's handle trading and players still loot regularly. Of course those other games have crafting too for truly customizable weapons. In a game like Guild Wars, an item can be used, sold, traded or placed in the Guild Bank for other members to have or even stored in a players account to give to another character on their profile.

One is thought is Soul Binding. Once you've used a weapon, you can't trade it away. Legendary weapons could be treated as such. And it's a logical way to not allow Legendary or Famed weapons to be traded between players. I saw the 'Looter By You' idea earlier. Soul Bound items could work the same way, placing a symbol on the item card to show you looted it yourself and is bound to you. They could only be sold at a vendor shop.

Or just not permit trading for Famed or Legendary items. Looters will still have goals and prizes to show off for their efforts. And there's plenty of very good effective Rare weapons out there that others would be happy to trade or pay for.

 

[LesPaulObsession]

Yes Pumpkin I said this because I was attacked by a post that had no intentions of helping, or giving a respectful opinion but was rather just a "put down" post.

See this is the kind of posts that are beneficial. You gave your points in a respectful manner, and although I don't agree with you, your post still made me think about the flaws in the system I had proposed.

I just don't like the risk of "Free Items" I do think this will happen and I'm just very against it. Every item should come from hard work. If it doesn't things just become boring and its not as rewarding in the end.

Not sure if you played in Alpha but if you did you'll remember that they gave us The Lost Sword and some other fames.

Now if you have the lost sword in Beta which did you feel better about?

The one you got in beta right? Of course. Why? Because you worked hard to get it and it was rewarding to finally loot it. Why wasn't it rewarding in Alpha? Because you did absolutely nothing to get it. It was given out free, and many, many players had it.

While I agree that there aren't a ton of people who would do that I still know for fact that there are people out there who will beg and people out there who will give. "Free Item" trading would significantly decrease the "rewarding feeling you get when getting something good"

I feel like the "even system" would still be rewarding, (you still worked hard to get that famed but all your doing is trading it for another famed that you don't have.

I see your point in the cannon ram example though and that's certainly a flaw in my idea. Not sure how to work that out, I'll think about it.

Thank you for presenting your points in a respectful manner.

That's fair, and while there will still be few people giving things away (in my opinion) maybe a solution to that would be that something MUST be offered by BOTH parties in order to trade. If you're giving gold, maybe set a minimum amount that must be traded, in order to prevent people just giving stuff away? It makes no difference to me how I acquire my gear personally, as I do it the most efficient way I can, but it could help in preventing your concern of a free for all market, where people just give items away

 

[Peter Goldbeard]

Yes Pumpkin I said this because I was attacked by a post that had no intentions of helping, or giving a respectful opinion but was rather just a "put down" post.

See this is the kind of posts that are beneficial. You gave your points in a respectful manner, and although I don't agree with you, your post still made me think about the flaws in the system I had proposed.

I just don't like the risk of "Free Items" I do think this will happen and I'm just very against it. Every item should come from hard work. If it doesn't things just become boring and its not as rewarding in the end.

Not sure if you played in Alpha but if you did you'll remember that they gave us The Lost Sword and some other fames.

Now if you have the lost sword in Beta which did you feel better about?

The one you got in beta right? Of course. Why? Because you worked hard to get it and it was rewarding to finally loot it. Why wasn't it rewarding in Alpha? Because you did absolutely nothing to get it. It was given out free, and many, many players had it.

While I agree that there aren't a ton of people who would do that I still know for fact that there are people out there who will beg and people out there who will give. "Free Item" trading would significantly decrease the "rewarding feeling you get when getting something good"

I feel like the "even system" would still be rewarding, (you still worked hard to get that famed but all your doing is trading it for another famed that you don't have.

I see your point in the cannon ram example though and that's certainly a flaw in my idea. Not sure how to work that out, I'll think about it.

Thank you for presenting your points in a respectful manner.

I definitely agree that the best form of trading, and the only one I would support, is the "even trading system". To solve issues such as the one with the ram (but not limited to that one), I think that the rarity of the item should be increased/decreased, to the point where we feel that all trades would be fair and equal. Also, we would need a way to control trades with cursed items, because there is currently no barrier blocking someone who has not completed the RC quest to use cursed blades, only that they must complete the quest to loot them. I also think that (maybe) a new rarity class is in order. You know how some famed are worth 10,000 times more than others (ok, that's a bit exaggerated, but whatever)? Like, trading a Grand Blunderbuss for a Bejewled Cutlass is not an even trade to me. I think that this could be improved with a new rarity class. Let me know what you think!

 

[LesPaulObsession]

I definitely agree that the best form of trading, and the only one I would support, is the "even trading system". To solve issues such as the one with the ram (but not limited to that one), I think that the rarity of the item should be increased/decreased, to the point where we feel that all trades would be fair and equal. Also, we would need a way to control trades with cursed items, because there is currently no barrier blocking someone who has not completed the RC quest to use cursed blades, only that they must complete the quest to loot them. I also think that (maybe) a new rarity class is in order. You know how some famed are worth 10,000 times more than others (ok, that's a bit exaggerated, but whatever)? Like, trading a Grand Blunderbuss for a Bejewled Cutlass is not an even trade to me. I think that this could be improved with a new rarity class. Lay me know what you think!

I forgot about cursed blades entirely. While I still disagree with the even trades, but as far as cursed blades go, maybe arrange it, so that you can only USE cursed blades, after the Ravens Cove quest is completed.

 

[Stormtimbers]

There should be no restrictions on training. If I wanted to trade famed for legendary, I should be able to do that. Even if I wanted to trade crude or common for legendary I should be allowed to do that trade. There is no good reason why there should be any of these suggested restrictions, which would be very detrimental to trading.

 

[Jack Cannonskull]

That's fair, and while there will still be few people giving things away (in my opinion) maybe a solution to that would be that something MUST be offered by BOTH parties in order to trade. If you're giving gold, maybe set a minimum amount that must be traded, in order to prevent people just giving stuff away? It makes no difference to me how I acquire my gear personally, as I do it the most efficient way I can, but it could help in preventing your concern of a free for all market, where people just give items away

True but you could still give crude for legendary.

There should be no restrictions on training. If I wanted to trade famed for legendary, I should be able to do that. Even if I wanted to trade crude or common for legendary I should be allowed to do that trade. There is no good reason why there should be any of these suggested restrictions, which would be very detrimental to trading.

Read my post that I JUST wrote.

 

[Stormtimbers]

True but you could still give crude for legendary.

Read my post that I JUST wrote.

First of all, 3 hours apart isn't a post that you "just wrote"

Second of all, if you don't want to get your items without having to pay to much, then don't. It's extremely unlikely that people will be just sitting around giving away free legendaries. If they do, you don't have to trade with them to get it, but if somebody does want to do that, there is no reason why they should not be able to, in the very unlikely scenario that someone is giving away a legendary.

 

[Jack Cannonskull]

First of all, 3 hours apart isn't a post that you "just wrote"

Second of all, if you don't want to get your items without having to pay to much, then don't. It's extremely unlikely that people will be just sitting around giving away free legendaries. If they do, you don't have to trade with them to get it, but if somebody does want to do that, there is no reason why they should not be able to, in the very unlikely scenario that someone is giving away a legendary.

The reason they shouldn't be able to is because it would make the game too easy. You shouldn't just be getting free gifts that's pointless.

 

[navy3001]

The reason they shouldn't be able to is because it would make the game too easy. You shouldn't just be getting free gifts that's pointless.

sooo... no more redeemable codes?

 

[DanceWithTheDevil]

The reason they shouldn't be able to is because it would make the game too easy. You shouldn't just be getting free gifts that's pointless.

Mate if someone gave some other random guy a sword it wouldn't effect you in anyway whatsoever. Why is it a big deal to you how others get stuff? If it makes it too easy for you then don't take any free items offered to you.

 

[LesPaulObsession]

The reason they shouldn't be able to is because it would make the game too easy. You shouldn't just be getting free gifts that's pointless.

I understand your concern, but I have to disagree with the point of making it too easy. Weapons have level requirements, so you're going to have to work hard to be able to use them, if someone trades them to you. And again, not everyone has fun looting for hours and hours at a time. I personally find it boring, and bland. It pushes me away from wanting to play the game. I'd much rather be sailing, or hanging out with the guild. While looting may be your cup of tea, and thats totally great, nothing wrong with that, its not everyones. So I don't know that the argument "it makes it easier" is really too valid

 

[The Sea Star]

Wouldn't trade be good for looters? Like others said if you don't want to trade you don't have to... It's optional. But I believe that if you a looter you can make a lot of cash. Like other MMORPG with trading, an economy will start. Some people that are to lazy to obtain an item will go seeking a player that will have it, and that player may pay buco bucks for that item. So for looters the fun in looting is still there, but also with the benefit of making more gold!

 

[LesPaulObsession]

Wouldn't trade be good for looters? Like others said if you don't want to trade you don't have to... It's optional. But I believe that if you a looter you can make a lot of cash. Like other MMORPG with trading, an economy will start. Some people that are to lazy to obtain an item will go seeking a player that will have it, and that player may pay buco bucks for that item. So for looters the fun in looting is still there, but also with the benefit of making more gold!

THANK YOU! I have literally preached this like, non stop lol. See page 13, like, I'm most of page 13 XD

 

[Driftarr]

Would trading weapons or clothing for ship building materials be a thing people have interest in? Or just trades for gold?
I have so much steel and I know so many people who'd give an arm and a pegged-leg for it.

I feel like it would create an unique economy of trade to have the land looters exchanging things like weapons with material looters, it would make my fortune hunter war galleon even more of an income machine :'D

 

[ElizaCreststeel]

Would trading weapons or clothing for ship building materials be a thing people have interest in? Or just trades for gold?
I have so much steel and I know so many people who'd give an arm and a pegged-leg for it.

I feel like it would create an unique economy of trade to have the land looters exchanging things like weapons with material looters, it would make my fortune hunter war galleon even more of an income machine :'D

Isn't that what Grog and Silver was originally intended to be for? They were intended to 'trade Craftsmen for specialty goods and services'

 

[The Sea Star]

Would trading weapons or clothing for ship building materials be a thing people have interest in? Or just trades for gold?

I think it should be up to the players to choose prices and compete with other merchantmen prices selling that item. I don't know how the devs will implement the trade if they do decide to do so, but I hope they do both gold and items/material trades for currency and fair trade backs. Items for items and having a gold currency would make a method called flipping possible. (Flipping being a method of negotiating a price for an item then selling the item they received for more.)

 

[Illuvatar]

Trading is a great idea. Successful MMOs have trading of some form.

 

[Jack Cannonskull]

Wouldn't trade be good for looters? Like others said if you don't want to trade you don't have to... It's optional. But I believe that if you a looter you can make a lot of cash. Like other MMORPG with trading, an economy will start. Some people that are to lazy to obtain an item will go seeking a player that will have it, and that player may pay buco bucks for that item. So for looters the fun in looting is still there, but also with the benefit of making more gold!

I'm not an extremely famed looter but I still very much enjoy it. I'll try to answer your question. Below I answer why trading isn't really "optional." Yes you are correct trading would be "somewhat" good to looters, but "also bad". Let me try to respectfully explain. While yes looters could potentially make a lot of money off this remember a few things. 1. If players are too lazy to go loot then they are probably too lazy to get enough gold that would be worth a famed. It's extremely easy to get gold playing blackjack. About 10k every 10-15 minutes if you cheat every round. Which leads me into my next point. 2. gold isn't that useful. Let's be honest. There aren't a lot of things to do with gold. Really all there is to do with it is buy ships, and ship upgrades. I feel like gold needs to be more useful then it has been in the past for this to work out. 3. Not all looters like to give out there fames. With all respect to looters a lot of us want to keep our fames because we feel accomplished for getting them and we like to showcase them. Not all the biggest looters are just gonna flip fames for less useful gold.

sooo... no more redeemable codes?

Yes actual. Redeemable codes are goofy when they give you too much that you didn't earn. I'm fine with the 100 steel stuff and 10k gold bc those aren't huge gifts. Giving a gift to the beta key players is also fine because we earned it. Redeeming like The Heart of Padres Del Fuego though I am against that, it should be loot able.

Mate if someone gave some other random guy a sword it wouldn't effect you in anyway whatsoever. Why is it a big deal to you how others get stuff? If it makes it too easy for you then don't take any free items offered to you.

Because if people are just getting "free items" then everything I will have is just so much worse. If that's an option (to get free gifts) than it's stupid for me to say "no I'm not going to do that" basically I have to trade if I want to keep up with others while pvping and even pve, and svs. It's just not as rewarding. Again! I'm not against trading just make it even or at least somewhat even and that's fine! Its solves the problem of dups and still allows for an economy. Just not one where people get ripped off or free gifts.

Please allow me to say that the more I think about, the more I would like to see a form of trading in the game. I'm not talking completely even here. Just something that would allow for somewhat fair trades. I will think about it and post my solution.